Jeff Horner

[HawkGold]

Using that basis, you could argue that Iowa's offensive success can largely be attributed to it's own crappy defense creating more possessions for both teams. Kind of the exact antithesis of Todd Lickliter, who's defense couul partially be attributed to his crappy offense creating fewer possessions for both teams.

Yes, plus the way Iowa releases to quickly attack...makes them vulnerable on D, therefore lot's of 3s and layups against...in my opinion.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Fran probably doesn't get enough credit for his integrity. It's one of his most admirable traits. But he doesn't help himself with his sideline temper and the way he treated the very team that Horner coached for and his terse "body of work" comments when asked legitimate questions and even more terse comments when it comes to Woodbury's eye pokes. Fran has written a few checks with his mouth since the season ended that his ass better be able to cash. Ferentz, while no saint, has done nowhere near as much when it comes to some of this. And Fran, when in the right mood, gives some of the most insightful press conferences around. Kirk gives you Bill Belicek.

kirk had a similar response, years ago, as in he essentially said "stupid question." how would you feel if someone asked you if you thought you deserved to keep your job and your answer would be known public-wide?

and kirk has had his fair share of volatile moments on the sidelines as well.

 

[Adam]

When Fran did try to recruit a point guard, who knows what his recruiting competition was telling those kids. The impending certainty that these kids would be competing against the coach's son was certainly an elephant in the room at times. But even taking Connor out of the equation. Doesn't the "motion offense" that Fran likes to run take a lot of creative freedom from the point guard anyway, especially when it comes to penetrating? Doesn't he prefer a lot of ball screens and passing over fancy dribbling? Some of you know more about this than I do.

Yes. Your comment is a good layman's post to match what Mateen Cleaves told me. The offense that Iowa runs is not one that relies on a PG to break down a defense. Some elite PG's may consider other offenses to be a better showcase of their individual skills.

 

[uihawk82]

I don't know what they are paying the guy, but if he is successful there is big money coaching college basketball. It would be nice if he were successful.

He has got to making at least $100,000 a year which is roughly twice as much as the average midwest household income if income is the main way you want to measure this. Now every dollar he makes over that amount is great, maybe he is making $200,000.

Good for him and probably a good step unless you can get a top assistant gig at a top 20 school.

He needs to show he can be the top guy, boss, manager, coach.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

When Fran did try to recruit a point guard, who knows what his recruiting competition was telling those kids. The impending certainty that these kids would be competing against the coach's son was certainly an elephant in the room at times. But even taking Connor out of the equation. Doesn't the "motion offense" that Fran likes to run take a lot of creative freedom from the point guard anyway, especially when it comes to penetrating? Doesn't he prefer a lot of ball screens and passing over fancy dribbling? Some of you know more about this than I do.

NH, i think you're right re: CM being the "target" at pg, now that he's on scholarship. Again, to me, that is another reason to give Fran a "pass" for the '17 season because he was without his intended pg. We need to see if CM is an improvement and the answer. So, to be fair, we still need to wait and see. I will say, however, that Fran was "this close" to signing Moore and then walked away. So, walking away from Moore leads to JBo, signing CM leads to Williams leaving and the net result is (with Connor missing virtually the entire season) we played all of '17 with the intended actual pg's.

You can blame that all on Fran, and, as the HC, you should. But I don't believe that shows incompetence or a lack of coaching ability. If we had signed Moore, then he and Williams likely would be our pgs in '17, Connor would still be a walk on (and would have RS) and JBo and Moss would be our 2's. We're definitely looking at plan B. But I feel Fran deserves the chance to make plan B work and find a better plan A if plan B doesn't work.

 

[lightning1]

NH, i think you're right re: CM being the "target" at pg, now that he's on scholarship. Again, to me, that is another reason to give Fran a "pass" for the '17 season because he was without his intended pg. We need to see if CM is an improvement and the answer. So, to be fair, we still need to wait and see. I will say, however, that Fran was "this close" to signing Moore and then walked away. So, walking away from Moore leads to JBo, signing CM leads to Williams leaving and the net result is (with Connor missing virtually the entire season) we played all of '17 with the intended actual pg's.

You can blame that all on Fran, and, as the HC, you should. But I don't believe that shows incompetence or a lack of coaching ability. If we had signed Moore, then he and Williams likely would be our pgs in '17, Connor would still be a walk on (and would have RS) and JBo and Moss would be our 2's. We're definitely looking at plan B. But I feel Fran deserves the chance to make plan B work and find a better plan A if plan B doesn't work.

That is the part of the conversation where I believe Fran is failing. He puts a lot of time and effort into top PGs and ends up 2nd or 3rd each time.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

That is the part of the conversation where I believe Fran is failing. He puts a lot of time and effort into top PGs and ends up 2nd or 3rd each time.

i am in no way saying fran hasn't signed the pg we needed, recently. But he landed Gesell and that was 100% alright with every Iowa fan on the planet, until MG didn't develop a consistent jumper during his JR season. from that point on, Fran has missed; but again, he walked away from Moore. We would not be having this conversation if we'd signed Moore. So, circumstances played a part. But Fran is the HC and is responsible for the bottom line and you can bet he understands that.

 

[lightning1]

i am in no way saying fran hasn't signed the pg we needed, recently. But he landed Gesell and that was 100% alright with every Iowa fan on the planet, until MG didn't develop a consistent jumper during his JR season. from that point on, Fran has missed; but again, he walked away from Moore. We would not be having this conversation if we'd signed Moore. So, circumstances played a part. But Fran is the HC and is responsible for the bottom line and you can bet he understands that.

He walked away from Moore late in the game, after he had put in a lot of time. I'm not convinced that Moore's character or unethical requests, was something that couldn't be seen early on in the relationship. It's not like he had a "handler" or street agent suddenly pop up out of nowhere. There were rumors about him early on.

 

[tksirius]

He walked away from Moore late in the game, after he had put in a lot of time. I'm not convinced that Moore's character or unethical requests, was something that couldn't be seen early on in the relationship. It's not like he had a "handler" or street agent suddenly pop up out of nowhere. There were rumors about him early on.

Fran thought he was going to get Moore for free, just like he thinks Carton will pick Iowa over all his better offers. Maybe he's just naive.

 

[lightning1]

Fran thought he was going to get Moore for free, just like he thinks Carton will pick Iowa over all his better offers. Maybe he's just naive.

Moore and his "handler" just assumed Fran knew there was going to be bidding involved. I wonder how long it took for them to square up on Fran and spell it out for him. Smdh

 

[lightning1]

Fran thought he was going to get Moore for free, just like he thinks Carton will pick Iowa over all his better offers. Maybe he's just naive.

Why do you think Patrick is playing on Terry's team and not DJ's team, this summer?

 

[Northside Hawk]

Fran thought he was going to get Moore for free, just like he thinks Carton will pick Iowa over all his better offers. Maybe he's just naive.

There's a story about Fran trying to learn how to run the scoreboard at Just A Game in Wisconsin Dells that I will try to get more info on sometime. I'm assuming he was up there watching Connor or Patrick. It was hilarious to hear. I just want to get the story accurate and straight before I tell it.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

He walked away from Moore late in the game, after he had put in a lot of time. I'm not convinced that Moore's character or unethical requests, was something that couldn't be seen early on in the relationship. It's not like he had a "handler" or street agent suddenly pop up out of nowhere. There were rumors about him early on.

Sure. but it's also possible that the did wait until the last minute. I mean, if you know a thing or two about negotiations, you wait until there is build up and hype and then you increase your demands, if that is what you're going to do. I mean, it is becoming amazing how so many twist so much to try and portray incompetence. Here is an example of how this board, in general, treats kirk differently than fran. With kirk, it is not incompetence, it's "doing things the right way", but with fran it's incompetence.

I am only applying the same standard for both coaches. HC is responsible for everything, but a fair and accurate assessment is needed. kirk gets credit and criticism when needed. Same should be for Fran.

 

[lightning1]

Sure. but it's also possible that the did wait until the last minute. I mean, if you know a thing or two about negotiations, you wait until there is build up and hype and then you increase your demands, if that is what you're going to do. I mean, it is becoming amazing how so many twist so much to try and portray incompetence. Here is an example of how this board, in general, treats kirk differently than fran. With kirk, it is not incompetence, it's "doing things the right way", but with fran it's incompetence.

I am only applying the same standard for both coaches. HC is responsible for everything, but a fair and accurate assessment is needed. kirk gets credit and criticism when needed. Same should be for Fran.

I'm not exactly sure where the disconnect was but it's obvious there was some degree of disconnect. Fran wants to do it "the right way" too. So, he shouldn't have ever been involved with a recruiter that was shopping his services for the highest bidder. IF* Fran really is recruiting above board, that is. And I have no reason to doubt his word on that.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Sure. but it's also possible that the did wait until the last minute. I mean, if you know a thing or two about negotiations, you wait until there is build up and hype and then you increase your demands, if that is what you're going to do. I mean, it is becoming amazing how so many twist so much to try and portray incompetence. Here is an example of how this board, in general, treats kirk differently than fran. With kirk, it is not incompetence, it's "doing things the right way", but with fran it's incompetence.

I am only applying the same standard for both coaches. HC is responsible for everything, but a fair and accurate assessment is needed. kirk gets credit and criticism when needed. Same should be for Fran.

I will double down on my earlier post because I want to paint an honest assessment of both good Fran and bad Fran.

Good Fran exudes integrity, gives delightful midweek and post game press conferences where he actually says something that makes you feel more intelligent for just having heard, and produces hard nosed teams that go into hostile Big Ten environments and get the W. He comes off as much more personable than Kirk. Fran's brother is a sportswriter for a Philadelphia newspaper and has surely given Fran some media pointers.

Bad Fran goes as ballistic on the sideline as any coach in the game today, turns an inocuous incident into a story (North Dakota when he already had the win in his pocket) and gets terse when he tries to defend a cause. Dochterman's question was legit- they were a bad 4-14 that should have gone 2-16 or 1-17 based on their effort (they stole the Illinois OT game in Champaign) and seasons like that have canned more than one coach (Georgia, Pitt). Woodbury's eye gouging was an issue and Dolph had a right to address it.

Fran's extremes run to the outer edges of the spectrum more than Kirk's, but Kirk is not without this moments as you pointed out. I also pointed out that he wasn't a saint. I would like to add, and I should have earlier, that Kirk can be humorous in the media in his own dry way also. He's had excellent interviews with the guys at Chicago sports radio am 670 the score.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

I will double down on my earlier post because I want to paint an honest assessment of both good Fran and bad Fran.

Good Fran exudes integrity, gives delightful midweek and post game press conferences where he actually says something that makes you feel more intelligent for just having heard, and produces hard nosed teams that go into hostile Big Ten environments and get the W. He comes off as much more personable than Kirk. Fran's brother is a sportswriter for a Philadelphia newspaper and has surely given Fran some media pointers.

Bad Fran goes as ballistic on the sideline as any coach in the game today, turns an inocuous incident into a story (North Dakota when he already had the win in his pocket) and gets terse when he tries to defend a cause. Dochterman's question was legit- they were a bad 4-14 that should have gone 2-16 or 1-17 based on their effort (they stole the Illinois OT game in Champaign) and seasons like that have canned more than one coach (Georgia, Pitt). Woodbury's eye gouging was an issue and Dolph had a right to address it.

Fran's extremes run to the outer edges of the spectrum more than Kirk's, but Kirk is not without this moments as you pointed out. I also pointed out that he wasn't a saint. I would like to add, and I should have earlier, that Kirk can be humorous in the media in his own dry way also. He's had excellent interviews with the guys at Chicago sports radio am 670 the score.

As I recall, it wasn't an inocuous issue with ND. If we're talking about the same thing, the issue was an end of game where the game was decided and with less than 5 seconds in the game an Iowa player was going in for a layup (a deep bench type whom you can't blame for trying to score) and the ND kid came with a hard foul that could have caused an injury. That isn't inocuous.

kirk has had similar responses when asked "do you feel like you should be fired or not" but he was given a pass. I talking about using the same standard, folks. just use the same standard. that is what I'm trying to do. last season pissed me off to no end. but i can see a valid reason why it happened and it was circumstantial and not necessarily within frans control (players on team.) that said, i believe fran gets the chance to fix the issue. our issue is at pg and that is really the one thing to point to.

 

[Northside Hawk]

As I recall, it wasn't an inocuous issue with ND. If we're talking about the same thing, the issue was an end of game where the game was decided and with less than 5 seconds in the game an Iowa player was going in for a layup (a deep bench type whom you can't blame for trying to score) and the ND kid came with a hard foul that could have caused an injury. That isn't inocuous.

kirk has had similar responses when asked "do you feel like you should be fired or not" but he was given a pass. I talking about using the same standard, folks. just use the same standard. that is what I'm trying to do. last season pissed me off to no end. but i can see a valid reason why it happened and it was circumstantial and not necessarily within frans control (players on team.) that said, i believe fran gets the chance to fix the issue. our issue is at pg and that is really the one thing to point to.

I think I do remember the hard foul but it wasn't in the final five seconds. I remember an Iowa player dribbling out the last five seconds in the backcourt, not making any attempt to score, and a North Dakota kid stripping it from him and scoring at the buzzer. Either way, in my opinion Fran should have just taken the win, gone through the line, and you never have to deal with them again. My opinion is just that and others may seen it differently. You came for the win. You got it. Take it and move along. Fran's best defense of what he did could have been that he didn't want any shenanigans in the handshake line. I thought he created more potential for trouble doing what he did. Both teams leave through the same floor exit at Carver.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

i should probably clarify. I wouldn't be upset if DJ chose Iowa. I think he'd make the team better. but, i don't think he's the style/type of player that would improve us as much as Locure would.

 

[Robowe]

I think I do remember the hard foul but it wasn't in the final five seconds. I remember an Iowa player dribbling out the last five seconds in the backcourt, not making any attempt to score, and a North Dakota kid stripping it from him and scoring at the buzzer. Either way, in my opinion Fran should have just taken the win, gone through the line, and you never have to deal with them again. My opinion is just that and others may seen it differently. You came for the win. You got it. Take it and move along. Fran's best defense of what he did could have been that he didn't want any shenanigans in the handshake line. I thought he created more potential for trouble doing what he did. Both teams leave through the same floor exit at Carver.

That is correct. The 'incident' is in the last 5 seconds and is in the clip below at the 1:00 mark. ND misses their shot, Baer grabs the rebound and just holds the ball for the clock to run out. The ND player steals the ball for a layup at the buzzer (not sure if the ref counted it). Fran turns and walks off the court and doesn't shake hands. I agree with you (as does Fran as mentioned at the end of the clip) that it could have been handled better.

 

[Ree4]

Haha and the "count it" signal by their coach