It's Time For Kris To Get Bohannon's Starting Spot

JRD90

Well-Known Member
JBo is the hitter in baseball that swings for the fences every at bat. Most games he will frustrate by going 0-4 with 4 K's, but every 5th game or so he'll hit 2 HR's and you love him again. I think Fran keeps running him out there hoping for the Home run game, but usually it's going to be the 2-10 night with poor body language all game.
 

thedukeofearl

Well-Known Member
There is also the timing aspect

When Jordan is in one of his spots, on the move, waiting for the ball

JoeT, especially, in most games, totally ignores him and dribbles to the other side
of the court

Point guards are supposed to get the ball to players exactly when they are in their best
position on the court

Not that they will go in at all, but when a player on the run is at his spot, get him the
ball Then, rather than late in the possession, time running out, toss him the ball, in desperation while he is closely guarded

It used to be a bonus to have Connor and Jordan on the floor in close games near the
end of regulation

They would dribble and pass the ball back and forth until the possession clock was almost over

The opponents would usually foul them, putting them on the line for an automatic 2 points

That was then

Jordan's D hasn't actually improved this season

Tis what Tis

:cool:
 

Fryowa

Administrator
I am happy that at least some other posters understand that Jordan also demands attention because he's the all time 3 point leader, which opens up other players because of said threat.
I don’t totally disagree, but it still doesn’t make up for what you’d gain in rebounding and defense with Kris getting the lions share of the minutes. At some point you have to draw the line on waiting for someone to come out of a slump. All the other stats aside, the difference in WS/40 is astounding. That’s a very, very solid stat. Bohannon is an occasional big 3 threat, but he doesn’t rebound, steal, or cause turnovers, and he’s not a threat to the basket. Murray creates WAY more net points with his defense. Points prevented via defense are worth exactly the same as points created by offense.

I just don’t think you can wait for him to bust out of a slump when you’re approaching the halfway point of the regular season with a losing conference record, especially when you have a bench player with demonstrably better numbers in all facets of the game.
 

hawkeye12345

Well-Known Member
JBo cannot defend.

JBo cannot create his own shot.

JBo cannot penetrate and dish.

The one AND ONLY value that JBo brings to a D1 basketball team is 3pt shooting. In games like last night we saw Rutgers ISO JBo defensively and just pound him to the basket for easy scores. He has zero on-ball defensive skills and has been a liability to the team for far too long.

He would be a fantastic 7th or 8th man coming off the bench.

Starters:

PG - Joe T. / Ulis / gawd we need help
SG - P McC / JBo / what happened to our talent here?
SF - Kris Murray / P McC /
PF - Keegan Murray / Kris Murray / C McC
C - Rebraca / Ogundele / C McC


That's a 9 player rotation and still way too deep in my opinion due to the drop in talent at C. Move to a taller lineup with P McC at the SG position and for the love of GAWD get Joe T to take a damn shot every once in a while. If for nothing more than to get the D to step outside the 3 point arc and open up space.

Another advantage to having Kris and Keegan play? They're twins man. You can't tell me with the fast action of a basketball game that one team can identify Keegan over Kris all the time.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
The one AND ONLY value that JBo brings to a D1 basketball team is 3pt shooting.
Before this year I'd have said he's an essential player to have at the end of a game because of his FT shooting, but he's only hitting a little over 3/4ths of them now.
 

InGoodCo

Well-Known Member
Haha!! How long you giving Jbo to break out of this funk? When the talent and Big Ten games ratchet up he disappears. Jbo is a plug n play bench player. If he is shooting well yup play him but last night he was HORRIBLE!

I agree Iowa is a decent team, but the fact is Fran an idiot and holding this team back. Iowa is a NCAA tournament team if only could put aside is stubbornness to players like Jbo and Connor. Minute distribution the last 2 games has been atrocious!!

You didn’t expect to win last night? That was a VERY WINNABLE GAME!!! Rutgers team isn’t very good..
I didn't expect a win last night, mostly because Rutgers historically wins 90% of their games at home and is like 37-6 over the last few seasons, but also just because I don't think this younger team of Fran's is going to fare very well on the road this season. You are right tho, it was a very winnable and they missed the opportunity to steal one I didn't see them stealing. Not a great Rutgers team, but they've been without Geo most of the year and Harper Jr has been hurt as well.

Fran isn't holding this team back and that's a really dumb take - we can say a lot about Fran, but I don't question his competitive prowess - I think he wants to win more than anyone and he literally couldn't give a shit how it looks, how it's accomplished or with whatever combination that is needed to do it.
 
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Gibsonian

Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more with this. Bring Jbo off the bench as needed. He really missed badly last night, and his performance is simply not to par overall as Fry's stat sheet shows. Time for the Murray bros!
 

InGoodCo

Well-Known Member
Jordan has a role on this team - I am all for him getting less minutes, and could give a shit less if he starts or not, but he's our 2nd leading scorer and our best outside threat, so I hope he still gets minutes cause Iowa needs him.

If he's getting crushed on D so bad- how come the guy he's guarding every night isn't having a career game? It's an easy crutch to go to - Jordan's offense outweighs any D liability he has... even in a funk.
 

HawkPrdatr40

Well-Known Member
I didn't expect a win last night, mostly because Rutgers historically wins 90% of their games at home and is like 37-6 over the last few seasons, but also just because I don't think this younger team is going to fare very well on the road this season. You are right tho, it was a very winnable and they missed the opportunity to steal one I didn't see them stealing. Not a great Rutgers team, but they've been without Geo most of the year and Harper Jr has been hurt as well.

Fran isn't holding this team back and that's a really dumb take - we can say a lot about Fran, but I don't question his competitive prowess - I think he wants to win more than anyone and he literally couldn't give a shit how it looks, how it's accomplished or with whatever combination that is needed to do it.

He most certainly is holding this team back! Kris drops a huge game and back to barely sniffing the court 11 mins in back to back games if that isn’t freaking clueless? What is!! Especially when both Pmac and Jbo both have struggled IN THE LAST 2 games Pmac gets 32/31 mins in those games and Jbo gets 30/28 minutes in both those games. The 2 have shot for a combined 9-45 from the field in both games with increased minutes!!!!

Makes ZERO sense and proof Fran is an idiot!!! Iowa won’t win more than a max of 7 or 8 big ten games with Fran dishing out the minutes he’s been dishing out. My guess Iowa has some pretty friustrated bench players (talented kids at that) wondering WTH is going on!
 

1980HAWKFAN

Well-Known Member
JBo cannot defend.

JBo cannot create his own shot.

JBo cannot penetrate and dish.

The one AND ONLY value that JBo brings to a D1 basketball team is 3pt shooting. In games like last night we saw Rutgers ISO JBo defensively and just pound him to the basket for easy scores. He has zero on-ball defensive skills and has been a liability to the team for far too long.

He would be a fantastic 7th or 8th man coming off the bench.

Starters:

PG - Joe T. / Ulis / gawd we need help
SG - P McC / JBo / what happened to our talent here?
SF - Kris Murray / P McC /
PF - Keegan Murray / Kris Murray / C McC
C - Rebraca / Ogundele / C McC


That's a 9 player rotation and still way too deep in my opinion due to the drop in talent at C. Move to a taller lineup with P McC at the SG position and for the love of GAWD get Joe T to take a damn shot every once in a while. If for nothing more than to get the D to step outside the 3 point arc and open up space.

Another advantage to having Kris and Keegan play? They're twins man. You can't tell me with the fast action of a basketball game that one team can identify Keegan over Kris all the time.
You have part of this correct. The first play of the game they did let Mul..something try to take Jbo low and he did fairly easily. He missed the shot though and I thought this is going to be bad. Then for whatever reason they went away from that plan. I only remember a few times when they tried it again and it was on their mind but that didn't hurt us. I thought what hurt more was on the offensive end. Just the overall lack of agression to try and attack the rim. Joe T was content mostly to just bring the ball up and throw it to a wing when he clearly could have forced his man to the rim. He just doesn't yet have that I can blow by you anytime I want mentality and that played right into Rutgers half court defense.
 

trj

Well-Known Member
This would be a no-brainer if Perkins was playing better. If Perkins that we saw at the beginning of the year shows up then it is easy to pull Jbo if he isn't "feeling it". Iowa has a tiny bit of wiggle room before you go into panic mode so I am okay with Jbo and Perkins trying to work through it.

As for Kris Murray I think he needs to swap roles with Patrick McCraffrey. imo, in terms of minutes Kris should be getting more than Patrick.
 

InGoodCo

Well-Known Member
I love that Fran is the reason Iowa isn't winning when we all really know it's why they they are.
 

NorthKCHawk

Well-Known Member
This idea may go over like a fart in church, but how about moving JBO back to the point mostly spelling JT. Uhlis isn't ready for primetime. He can give you some decent spot minutes, but he cannot score or distribute. He is a poor man's JT.

JT and Bohannon are a nice mix at the point. Each can score. JT can play D with anyone. JBO protects the ball and is a good passer. Play the hot hand.

Play Patrick and Perkins and a little JBO at the 2.

Rotate the Murrays, Flip, and a little Connor and Sanford at the forward spots.
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
I don’t totally disagree, but it still doesn’t make up for what you’d gain in rebounding and defense with Kris getting the lions share of the minutes. At some point you have to draw the line on waiting for someone to come out of a slump. All the other stats aside, the difference in WS/40 is astounding. That’s a very, very solid stat. Bohannon is an occasional big 3 threat, but he doesn’t rebound, steal, or cause turnovers, and he’s not a threat to the basket. Murray creates WAY more net points with his defense. Points prevented via defense are worth exactly the same as points created by offense.

I just don’t think you can wait for him to bust out of a slump when you’re approaching the halfway point of the regular season with a losing conference record, especially when you have a bench player with demonstrably better numbers in all facets of the game.

This is what I have always stated and what I used to look at and state to the youth players I used to coach. It's all about finding the best group or scheme to get your team the best net points in a game.

What point is it to have a guy that gets 20 pts a game if they play bad enough defense to get 20 pts scored on them. Yea, people notice it in the stat book but fail to realize they also gave up pts due to lack of D or rebounding or other ways to change the game. All people see is points even if it took 25 shots by said player to get those 20 pts.

I'd take a lock down point guard defender who may only score 3-5 pts a game, but dishes out 10 assists. This player may be assigned to defend the quickest or best player on the other team and can keep said player 10 pts below his average. That's a hell of a net gain for a team when that lock down defending point guard only scores 3-5 pts a game!
 
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MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
Before this year I'd have said he's an essential player to have at the end of a game because of his FT shooting, but he's only hitting a little over 3/4ths of them now.

In addition, maybe playing Kris and some others a little more, maybe a team wouldn't have all the games so close at the end.
 

InGoodCo

Well-Known Member
most road games are gonna be close at the end - The home team almost always makes a run, it's just how it works. Being good at pulling those out is an art but every team experiences it and a lot of time it wouldn't have mattered what combination of players they had.
 

cohawkeye

Well-Known Member
I will not hate on JBo, his class act with Chris Street and the FT record is undeniably a top moment for any hawkeye player in the history of Iowa athletics.

It would be helpful though if we used him to where that benefits our team, and in 2022 his use his literally of no value anymore outside the last 5 minutes of a game.

Great hawkeye, good run, thanks for all the memories.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
Jordan has also not been the same type of player since Moe Greene slapped him around for throwing ice (and maybe banging cocktail waitresses ;) ) in his Iowa City Bar over the summer. It was really messing with his business and he had to get him back in line.
 

loesshillshawk

Well-Known Member
There's really no denying that Bohannon isn't working out this year. He's way down in every statistical category, and there are a lot of bench players putting up better numbers per minute played.

I get it that people have a nostalgic love for Bohannon and think he's built up a bank of entitled playing time for his service over the years, but 7 conference games is enough of a sample size. It's time for Fran to go with a little more of a stretched lineup and give Bohannon's spot to Murray. Below are B1g conference game stats per 40 minutes played. It allows comparison of two or more players who don't play equal minutes. Also show are win shares per 40 mins in conference games, which is universally accepted as a measure of importance to a team's overall play.

View attachment 8607
Agrees...Fran should of said we don't need you this year...play your best guys
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Jordan has a role on this team - I am all for him getting less minutes, and could give a shit less if he starts or not, but he's our 2nd leading scorer and our best outside threat, so I hope he still gets minutes cause Iowa needs him.

If he's getting crushed on D so bad- how come the guy he's guarding every night isn't having a career game? It's an easy crutch to go to - Jordan's offense outweighs any D liability he has... even in a funk.
He's actually the 3rd leading scorer overall, 4th in conference games. I know you're huge fan and defender and I get it, but the OOC just can't be used. We had the one of the weakest SOS in all of P6 basketball which is because those OOC games were so bad. There's a good reason why teams like Wisconsin, etc. schedule tough non-cons, it's better to find out what your weaknesses are ahead of time rather than roll into the B1G after beating up a bunch of middle school teams.

And the defensive thing is not a crutch. It's stats. Look at the WS analysis which is 100% statistics. Our opponents score more points when he's on the floor vs Kris Murray, and not just a little. And as far as his offense outweighing his D liability, that's just not true. It's been a horrible ratio in conference games, which like it or not is all that counts. It doesn't matter whatsoever that he dropped 18 against Longwood. That team is garbage and it has no effect on the NET. He's also not our most dangerous outside threat, not sure where you're getting that. Kris Murray is better than him this year.

Again, I'm not saying he shouldn't play, or that he sucks, or that Fran is "holding us back." That's exaggeration and it's the first thing anyone runs to when someone criticizes Bohannon's play. It's like for some reason he's off limits; I don't get it but whatever. But there is a bench player who is more productive in every single phase of the game than him who should be getting Bohannon's minutes. It's to the point now that one can't even argue that he should be in at the end of a game to shoot FTs. Perkins and Ulis are both over .900 and Bohannon is lucky to make 3 out of 4.

All players no matter how great they are fizzle out at some point. All of 'em. It's not hate.

Could he go ballistic from here on out and light the scoreboard up? That would be awesome. But until he starts doing stuff to make his minutes warranted, he needs to give 'em up to a player who's going to help win ball games.
 
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