ISU v Baylor, boy oh boy

BGOLD said:
I don't know about anyone else on here but I never paid attention to ISU basketball until recently. The last couple years under Hoiberg had me thinking we wouldn't be the top program in the state for the foreseeable future. Now, ISU looks like a borderline top 25 team and is starting from scratch next year. Fran has assembled one of the better Iowa teams in history and keep recruiting at a higher level.
Pretty certain ISU will no longer be on my radar going forward, and they'll be irrelevant to me and most of the basketball world in the near future. Feels like going home.
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Not sure I'm sold on that Prohm guy either. He just seems to sit on the bench quietly with his elbow on his knee & hand on his chin.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Not sure I'm sold on that Prohm guy either. He just seems to sit on the bench quietly with his elbow on his knee & hand on his chin.
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Sounds like another coach that coached in the great state of Iowa. Oh wait he had his hands over his face, my bad. ......
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Not sure I'm sold on that Prohm guy either. He just seems to sit on the bench quietly with his elbow on his knee & hand on his chin.
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I think it's pretty clear he has struggled to control the team all season. It's great when it's going good. It's awful when it's going bad. Prohm inherited a talented team that doesn't want to be coached. They may say the right things in the public eye, but it's pretty obvious that there's more going on behind the scenes.
 
deanvogs said:
I also love how you didn't hear anything about the missed goaltending call AGAINST ISU that would have allowed Baylor to win in regulation. What is the deal with Big12 refs, can't they see when the ball hits the backboard??
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I can't believe they didn't call that. Ball was on the way down
 
DP5555 said:
Did you change your mind about McKay vs Woody after last night's debacle?
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McKay looked pathetic last night but Woodbury was pretty bad against Minnesota. I agree with the roster you gave though, need someone who is a better defender and not worry about offense
 
DP5555 said:
I think it's pretty clear he has struggled to control the team all season. It's great when it's going good. It's awful when it's going bad. Prohm inherited a talented team that doesn't want to be coached. They may say the right things in the public eye, but it's pretty obvious that there's more going on behind the scenes.
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Seems like this team is "Fred's team" still and Prohm will batten down the hatches once the Niang/Morris/McKay/Nader group is gone. With the McKay suspension it seemed pretty obvious that something was going on within the team and Prohm had had enough of it. On the flip side, I felt like the only reason Fred suspended BDJ last year was because the media caught hold of the story and he had to do something. Fred always seemed very hands-off with his players

My guess is starting next year things will really change with the player culture at ISU. The coddling will end and the Prohm era...be it short or long...will begin.
 
Hawk5656 said:
I can't believe they didn't call that. Ball was on the way down
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I was pretty sure the ball went off the backboard before they blocked it. I thought it was obvious goaltending, and I thought that was reviewable? maybe thats only the NBA?
 
mopkins said:
Seems like this team is "Fred's team" still and Prohm will batten down the hatches once the Niang/Morris/McKay/Nader group is gone. With the McKay suspension it seemed pretty obvious that something was going on within the team and Prohm had had enough of it. On the flip side, I felt like the only reason Fred suspended BDJ last year was because the media caught hold of the story and he had to do something. Fred always seemed very hands-off with his players

My guess is starting next year things will really change with the player culture at ISU. The coddling will end and the Prohm era...be it short or long...will begin.
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i think you are right about hands off - he has taken flak for being that way from a current Bull.
 
For those keeping score at home Iowa State has now lost 4 of their last 6. I don't see how they can possibly win the conference tournament this year. They may very well end up being in the 4 to 6 seed range.
 
DP5555 said:
It's all about points in the paint. Baylor gouged ISU in the paint. They murdered them in the paint. McKay is hunting blocks instead of playing defense. He's taking himself out of position constantly. Niang is too fat and slow and has always played bad defense. Burton is too short to consistently play well against real bigs. They don't have an answer.

I don't know of a website that keeps track of points in the paint per game, but I'd be interested to see that stat from last night. Motley had 27 points. Prince had 15 and a forward off their bench had 15 (Maston). That's 57 points right there and it's safe to assume the majority of them were in the paint. That's not including drives by their guards.

This is by far their biggest weakness, and guess what? They lose Niang and McKay next year. It's only gonna get worse.
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This isn't points in the paint but provides some insight.

Iowa State scored 33 points via the 3 point shot. They scored 10 points at the line. They scored 48 points (24 baskets) from 2 point range.

Baylor scored 24 points via the 3 point shot. They scored 22 points at the line. They scored 54 points (27 baskets) from 2 point range.

Iowa State lost by 9 and were outscored by 6 points from 2 and 12 points from the line...many the result of fouls in the paint. So I believe this proves your point...to the extent possible.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Not sure I'm sold on that Prohm guy either. He just seems to sit on the bench quietly with his elbow on his knee & hand on his chin.
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I actually think Prohm is a good coach...don't know if he's just another mid major guy yet. But I don't put this season on him at all. Next year for Prohm is like Fran's first year at Iowa IMO. He will be starting from almost nothing and have to build it his way. I think it will be year 4 before he can be fairly evaluated on his own merits.
 
deanvogs said:
I also love how you didn't hear anything about the missed goaltending call AGAINST ISU that would have allowed Baylor to win in regulation. What is the deal with Big12 refs, can't they see when the ball hits the backboard??
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I definitely thought that was goal tending. And I wasn't necessarily cheering against Iowa State. I have no love for Baylor. I was watching because it was a close game. Both of these teams looked totally inept the last 2 to 3 minutes of regulation IMO.
 
As one writer recently put it, Prohm may well be facing the Substitute Teacher Syndrome this season......at least in the eyes of those players that have spent the majority of their time playing for Hoiberg.
 
mopkins said:
Seems like this team is "Fred's team" still and Prohm will batten down the hatches once the Niang/Morris/McKay/Nader group is gone. With the McKay suspension it seemed pretty obvious that something was going on within the team and Prohm had had enough of it. On the flip side, I felt like the only reason Fred suspended BDJ last year was because the media caught hold of the story and he had to do something. Fred always seemed very hands-off with his players

My guess is starting next year things will really change with the player culture at ISU. The coddling will end and the Prohm era...be it short or long...will begin.
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I think this is pretty spot on. I'm not trying to bag on Fred because I honestly believe he's a good guy, but all he cared about was winning games. He had no problem going after guys with shady character traits if it was going to help him win. That's a fact.

I don't think Prohm is cut from the same mold. He seems way too religious to be okay with bringing in guys who have questionable integrity. I could be wrong though. Time will tell.
 
DP5555 said:
Did you change your mind about McKay vs Woody after last night's debacle?
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WindsorHawk said:
I actually think Prohm is a good coach...don't know if he's just another mid major guy yet. But I don't put this season on him at all. Next year for Prohm is like Fran's first year at Iowa IMO. He will be starting from almost nothing and have to build it his way. I think it will be year 4 before he can be fairly evaluated on his own merits.
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Spot on man! Going to be tough though.
 
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