Isaiah Moss putting on a clinic

[MelroseHawkins]

This is a really weird take. Iowa/Fran brought in Moss, allowed him to redshirt, invested 4 years into him, and gave him 24 minutes per game. Suddenly nobody is allowed to question why he left?

Seems likely to me his transfer was related to CJ/JBo/JW also playing heavy minutes at Shooting Guard. Maybe NBA scouts said he needed to work on his man defense and Fran plays a lot of zone now because his team sucks at defense? Maybe his BFF was Cook and with Cook gone he wanted a fresh start?

Personally I don't care at all why he transferred, but to say fans aren't allowed to question/criticize him for leaving is just really f'ing stupid

I clearly remember 1-2 games last year where Moss was left on the bench in the 2nd half of fairly close games. When the camera was on him, you could clearly see his frustration. Of course, he lost the minutes to Connor. Even after one game, Fran commented that he probably should have played Moss more. To me, Fran was so keyed in on Connor that he completely forgot to put Moss in. I think Moss saw that and knew he was a better player than Connor, especially being an upperclassman. One of the games, Moss was clearly the best player in the 1st half and had like 16 pts with a good shooting %. He was nowhere to be found in the 2nd half.

I can completely understand why he went elsewhere. You have an upperclassman, who's had success and experience now losing A LOT of minutes to the coaches son who is an underclassman. It wasn't going to get any better and Moss saw the writing on the wall and said F this.

 

[mopkins]

I clearly remember 1-2 games last year where Moss was left on the bench in the 2nd half of fairly close games. When the camera was on him, you could clearly see his frustration. Of course, he lost the minutes to Connor. Even after one game, Fran commented that he probably should have played Moss more. To me, Fran was so keyed in on Connor that he completely forgot to put Moss in. I think Moss saw that and knew he was a better player than Connor, especially being an upperclassman. One of the games, Moss was clearly the best player in the 1st half and had like 16 pts with a good shooting %. He was nowhere to be found in the 2nd half.

I can completely understand why he went elsewhere. You have an upperclassman, who's had success and experience now losing A LOT of minutes to the coaches son who is an underclassman. It wasn't going to get any better and Moss saw the writing on the wall and said F this.

All of that is certainly possible (perhaps even likely). However at Iowa he was a starter and getting 24 minutes per game his Soph and Junior years. So far during his senior year at KU he has played 20 minutes per game and he's not even starting. He also didn't play against Duke so his numbers so far are skewed vs cupcakes. If Fran wasn't using Moss during crunch time...whats saying Bill Self will?

 

[MelroseHawkins]

All of that is certainly possible (perhaps even likely). However at Iowa he was a starter and getting 24 minutes per game his Soph and Junior years. So far during his senior year at KU he has played 20 minutes per game and he's not even starting. He also didn't play against Duke so his numbers so far are skewed vs cupcakes. If Fran wasn't using Moss during crunch time...whats saying Bill Self will?

He's been hurt in the early season at Kansas. He's now just getting going. I think he will end up starting there, unless his D is really bad. He's pretty much their only consistent 3 pt shooter and Self and teammates seem to really like him and compliment his game.

 

[InGoodCo]

I clearly remember 1-2 games last year where Moss was left on the bench in the 2nd half of fairly close games. When the camera was on him, you could clearly see his frustration. Of course, he lost the minutes to Connor. Even after one game, Fran commented that he probably should have played Moss more. To me, Fran was so keyed in on Connor that he completely forgot to put Moss in. I think Moss saw that and knew he was a better player than Connor, especially being an upperclassman. One of the games, Moss was clearly the best player in the 1st half and had like 16 pts with a good shooting %. He was nowhere to be found in the 2nd half.

I can completely understand why he went elsewhere. You have an upperclassman, who's had success and experience now losing A LOT of minutes to the coaches son who is an underclassman. It wasn't going to get any better and Moss saw the writing on the wall and said F this.

How much more of a fair shake could IM have received from the U of I or the HC? He started nearly every game since his Freshman year. For the past 2 seasons he averaged 24 minutes a game. He had close to 10 games last year that he had over 30. In the biggest games of the year (the NCAA tournament) he played 52 minutes to Connor's 24. There's almost no way IM wouldn't or didn't know that he was in line for his biggest season yet at Iowa with the most minutes he'd ever played. Blaming Fran's kid's has become an echo chamber at this point. It's the catch all for everything that goes wrong with the program. I actually understand it and it goes with the gig. I just wish it was actually true. They don't even play the same position. He's one roster spot out of 13. There are 12 other players - I am more concerned with their make up then I am with 1 player on the team.

 

[BryceC]

Blaming Fran's kid's has become an echo chamber at this point. It's the catch all for everything that goes wrong with the program. I actually understand it and it goes with the gig. I just wish it was actually true.

I said this with McDermott and his kid - having your children on the team isn't an issue, as long as they are absolutely no brainer great. If they are average or even just a quality starter things can get ugly, especially if the team doesn't have success.

 

[mopkins]

I said this with McDermott and his kid - having your children on the team isn't an issue, as long as they are absolutely no brainer great. If they are average or even just a quality starter things can get ugly, especially if the team doesn't have success.

Iowa football got pretty lucky that Ferentz kids were solid and also just OLineman. If a Ferentz kid was a starting QB the forums would have melted the internet to the ground every interception

 

[mopkins]

How much more of a fair shake could IM have received from the U of I or the HC? He started nearly every game since his Freshman year. For the past 2 seasons he averaged 24 minutes a game. He had close to 10 games last year that he had over 30. In the biggest games of the year (the NCAA tournament) he played 52 minutes to Connor's 24. There's almost no way IM wouldn't or didn't know that he was in line for his biggest season yet at Iowa with the most minutes he'd ever played. Blaming Fran's kid's has become an echo chamber at this point. It's the catch all for everything that goes wrong with the program. I actually understand it and it goes with the gig. I just wish it was actually true. They don't even play the same position. He's one roster spot out of 13. There are 12 other players - I am more concerned with their make up then I am with 1 player on the team.

Yeah but you're using facts and logic. People prefer emotion and nonsense

 

[InGoodCo]

Iowa football got pretty lucky that Ferentz kids were solid and also just OLineman. If a Ferentz kid was a starting QB the forums would have melted the internet to the ground every interception

College coaches are in no win situations with their kids. A lot of times, they are some of the best players in the state if their old man played or was athletic. What is Kirk supposed to do? Not take 2 kids who eventually played in the NFL? Did they just play in the NFL because of daddy? Should Fran not have recruited 2 top 150 kids in his state? It's a ridiculous notion and a tough place for them to be in. Comes with the gig tho. No one feels THAT sorry for them. My thing is, if you aren't a troll and you are a Hawk fan, hold yourself to a higher standard. That doesn't mean you can't make some critical analogy of their play, just leave all the extra bullshit out of it.

Connor is playing right now because he's built equity in the program and this is his 3rd full year in. IMO, it looks like Joe T could very well supplant him from the starting PG role. Just based off ability. I think that's a great thing. I am excited for it to happen. I wanna see it happen. If it does, he will have earned it. I think Connor's a head at this point, but mostly because of "equity" part of things. He definitely doesn't have his athletic ability and I imagine the more JT puts it together, the more he will play.

 

[mopkins]

College coaches are in no win situations with their kids. A lot of times, they are some of the best players in the state if their old man played or was athletic. What is Kirk supposed to do? Not take 2 kids who eventually played in the NFL? Did they just play in the NFL because of daddy? Should Fran not have recruited 2 top 150 kids in his state? It's a ridiculous notion and a tough place for them to be in. Comes with the gig tho. No one feels THAT sorry for them. My thing is, if you aren't a troll and you are a Hawk fan, hold yourself to a higher standard. That doesn't mean you can't make some critical analogy of their play, just leave all the extra bullshit out of it.

Connor is playing right now because he's built equity in the program and this is his 3rd full year in. IMO, it looks like Joe T could very well supplant him from the starting PG role. Just based off ability. I think that's a great thing. I am excited for it to happen. I wanna see it happen. If it does, he will have earned it. I think Connor's a head at this point, but mostly because of "equity" part of things. He definitely doesn't have his athletic ability and I imagine the more JT puts it together, the more he will play.

As much as people want to hate on him, Connor has actually been one of the few consistent players on the team so far. Granted its early. Connor has a 4:1 assist:TO ratio. Shooting 33% from 3. 92% from the FT line. He's driving to the basket and drawing fouls, he's diving on the floor for loose balls, he's averaging a steal per game.

Scoring isn't an issue with this team and it won't be....KenPom has Iowa as the #6 adjusted offense in the country. So guys like Connor are crucial for the other factors...hustle, defense, ball security, etc.

 

[PCHawk]

As much as people want to hate on him, Connor has actually been one of the few consistent players on the team so far. Granted its early. Connor has a 4:1 assist:TO ratio. Shooting 33% from 3. 92% from the FT line. He's driving to the basket and drawing fouls, he's diving on the floor for loose balls, he's averaging a steal per game.

Scoring isn't an issue with this team and it won't be....KenPom has Iowa as the #6 adjusted offense in the country. So guys like Connor are crucial for the other factors...hustle, defense, ball security, etc.

Connor uses his size and basketball IQ. It's nowhere near as flashy as being quick, but it can be almost as effective.

 

[Thawki]

Saying Moss was inconsistent isn't really dogging on him, it was what he was. We said the same thing when he was here. He did play at Iowa and give it his all. He was one of my favorite guys. But he also left Iowa with eligibility left. He came to Iowa as a unheralded recruit. Iowa was the engine he used to get the ability to transfer to a school the caliber of KS. Without that, KS would have never even known who IM was. He took 4 years of coaching, support and funding from the U of I and then absolutely spit in their faces for his Sr. year. The year that was suppose to be the big pay off for a project recruit. He F'd the team we all cheer for in epic fashion.

I am not anonymous on this site and I am also an Iowa fan. Iowa fans don't need to cheer for players who play for other schools and to expect them to is asking an awful lot from this crowd. They certainly don't need to cheer for a player who took a dump on mid court of Carver.

You are right. They don't need to cheer for that player you described. But they also certainly don't need to post about him, either. The adage, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all," disappeared with the advent of the internet. That's too bad. They could simply not post about a guy that isn't part of our program. And THAT is my point. While your comments might not have dogged him, some did, and there is no denying it.

Players come to a school and they are somewhat trapped at a school to a degree when coaches can leave whenever they want or they can push a guy out. That is the bed that coaches have made for themselves. I have evolved to the point where I don't take issue with a kid leaving the program with eligibility left, as long as he carries himself with class while he is here and when he is leaving. Moss did that.

Maybe some of you that question his leaving should ask yourself why he felt the need to leave instead of throwing rocks at him after he has left.

 

[deanvogs]

College coaches are in no win situations with their kids. A lot of times, they are some of the best players in the state if their old man played or was athletic. What is Kirk supposed to do? Not take 2 kids who eventually played in the NFL? Did they just play in the NFL because of daddy? Should Fran not have recruited 2 top 150 kids in his state? It's a ridiculous notion and a tough place for them to be in. Comes with the gig tho. No one feels THAT sorry for them. My thing is, if you aren't a troll and you are a Hawk fan, hold yourself to a higher standard. That doesn't mean you can't make some critical analogy of their play, just leave all the extra bullshit out of it.

Connor is playing right now because he's built equity in the program and this is his 3rd full year in. IMO, it looks like Joe T could very well supplant him from the starting PG role. Just based off ability. I think that's a great thing. I am excited for it to happen. I wanna see it happen. If it does, he will have earned it. I think Connor's a head at this point, but mostly because of "equity" part of things. He definitely doesn't have his athletic ability and I imagine the more JT puts it together, the more he will play.

If you think Joe T is gonna supplant Connor, you might want to re watch the Oral game.

 

[InGoodCo]

If you think Joe T is gonna supplant Connor, you might want to re watch the Oral game.

I did watch the Oral game and frankly, have been defending Fran NOT playing JT since that game. It's one game. I think JT has some abilities in the tank that might help this team. I expect his role to increase as the year goes on. Some are upset he's not starting or playing more. While I'd like to see him play no more, I am definitely not upset and I don't think Connor is playing at his expense. Connor can play multiple positions. He's on the floor IMO for his ball handling, calming presence and hustle. JT shows some great flashes - but he was not good in the OR game. Fran sat him. I was ok with that. That's coaching.

But....based off potential and flashes, it does look like Joe T is gonna be good. Or has the potential to be good. I would hope that at some point in his career he could be the starting PG at Iowa even with Connor on the team. We will see.

 

[HawkGold]

I did watch the Oral game and frankly, have been defending Fran NOT playing JT since that game. It's one game. I think JT has some abilities in the tank that might help this team. I expect his role to increase as the year goes on. Some are upset he's not starting or playing more. While I'd like to see him play no more, I am definitely not upset and I don't think Connor is playing at his expense. Connor can play multiple positions. He's on the floor IMO for his ball handling, calming presence and hustle. JT shows some great flashes - but he was not good in the OR game. Fran sat him. I was ok with that. That's coaching.

But....based off potential and flashes, it does look like Joe T is gonna be good. Or has the potential to be good. I would hope that at some point in his career he could be the starting PG at Iowa even with Connor on the team. We will see.

Do you really work for the sports info Dept?

 

[InGoodCo]

Do you really work for the sports info Dept?

I do a lot of PR ....and I am good at it.

 

[Ree4]

I bet Isaiah went to Kansas for the stripper poles and Snoop Dogg

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Connor uses his size and basketball IQ. It's nowhere near as flashy as being quick, but it can be almost as effective.

There are good basketball players that that don't always score that much. If they take care of the ball, dish out assits, rebound a hand-ful and play good defense but only score 4-5 pts, they still effect the net scoring in a game between two teams. If a player is a lock-down defender and only scores 5 pts a game, but defends the other teams best player holding 15 pts under their average, that player is affecting the net scoring in the game.

 

[mopkins]

Maybe some of you that question his leaving should ask yourself why he felt the need to leave instead of throwing rocks at him after he has left.

but why cant you do both? Why is it ok to question Fran for Moss leaving....but its not ok to question Moss for Moss leaving? You seem to have no problems throwing rocks at Fran, but its completely unacceptable to throw rocks at Moss?

Doesn't make sense at all. Moss spent 4 years at Iowa and then suddenly left and committed to Arkansas and then decommited and transferred to Kansas a month later. Why is it just completely unacceptable to question whats going on in his head?

 

[mopkins]

If you think Joe T is gonna supplant Connor, you might want to re watch the Oral game.

I did watch the Oral game and frankly, have been defending Fran NOT playing JT since that game. It's one game. I think JT has some abilities in the tank that might help this team. I expect his role to increase as the year goes on. Some are upset he's not starting or playing more. While I'd like to see him play no more, I am definitely not upset and I don't think Connor is playing at his expense. Connor can play multiple positions. He's on the floor IMO for his ball handling, calming presence and hustle. JT shows some great flashes - but he was not good in the OR game. Fran sat him. I was ok with that. That's coaching.

But....based off potential and flashes, it does look like Joe T is gonna be good. Or has the potential to be good. I would hope that at some point in his career he could be the starting PG at Iowa even with Connor on the team. We will see.

Personally I think its really dumb to judge any player based on anything they do their freshman year. and I mean ANY player. Especially a point guard or a big man.

here are just a couple references. How many "Hawkeye Nation forum experts" would have called these guys busts after their freshman year?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cassius-winston-1.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/frank-kaminsky-1.html

 

[PCHawk]

but why cant you do both? Why is it ok to question Fran for Moss leaving....but its not ok to question Moss for Moss leaving? You seem to have no problems throwing rocks at Fran, but its completely unacceptable to throw rocks at Moss?

Doesn't make sense at all. Moss spent 4 years at Iowa and then suddenly left and committed to Arkansas and then decommited and transferred to Kansas a month later. Why is it just completely unacceptable to question whats going on in his head?

This is where people come in and say "because Fran gets paid". Like getting money compensation is the difference between when you can rip on someone and when you can't. I've never understood that argument.