Name me one bad shooter as a guard in High School who ended up being a good shooter in college. It is not as easy to "teach shooting" as you suggest.
is this washpun stuff good or bad?
- Thread starter franstheman
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Name me one bad shooter as a guard in High School who ended up being a good shooter in college. It is not as easy to "teach shooting" as you suggest.
SteveGarvey
Well-Known Member
Rajon Rondo can't shoot either and he's doing pretty well. Of course, I'm not saying Washpun will be as good as Rondo but it sounds like he has quicks, hops and athleticism that we need. He might surprise people. He's more athletic than Payne and that's something anyway.
JRHawks5969
Well-Known Member
Rondo was a 5 star prospect coming out of high school.
Yeah, there are good scorers and distributers who are not great shooters. Some guys, like Rondo, never really develop a shot. Others, like Jason Kidd, to some extent do. The biggest issue with Iowa is that they don't have a guy that guard can kick it to.
I don't really have any idea if Washpun is goin to be able to be successful. But I can say it is starting to appear as if this staff is challenged with respect to closing on recruits. So, my feeling is that maybe it needs to get really dark to force Fran to make some changes.
Seriously, waiting until a week before the spring signing period starts to send an offer to a fallback kid up the street from your school is NOT a way to be successful in the BIG.
Also, spending your winter recruiting for spring instead of Fall is also NOT a way to be successful. It is okay to do it for your first class. Somewhat understandable for year two. Completely unacceptable for year three.
I don't really have any idea if Washpun is goin to be able to be successful. But I can say it is starting to appear as if this staff is challenged with respect to closing on recruits. So, my feeling is that maybe it needs to get really dark to force Fran to make some changes.
Seriously, waiting until a week before the spring signing period starts to send an offer to a fallback kid up the street from your school is NOT a way to be successful in the BIG.
Also, spending your winter recruiting for spring instead of Fall is also NOT a way to be successful. It is okay to do it for your first class. Somewhat understandable for year two. Completely unacceptable for year three.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Just what we need - another player that can't shoot. I don't discount the athleticism and defense that Washpun could bring, but we are sorely lacking in scorers, so it doesn't sound like Washpun is going to be the answer to the long scoring droughts that we continually suffer in games.
So it seems like this could be a bit of a desperation scholarship offer given our seeming inability (so far) to get a commit from any of our previous PG prospects.
I say all of this without seeing Washpun play at all, and I know that Cartwright turned out nicely, but it's making me nervous that we can't seem to get any commits from players that aren't either A) lightly recruited and/or B) in-state prospects.
hawkIhoops
Well-Known Member
More Sioux City kids, really? Cougill and McCabe havne't left enough of an underwhelming impression on you. The hoops program isn't going to recover if the roster is packed with mid major (at best) Iowa high school talent. Have you seen who is after the Cougillnator? It's not high D1 programs. Better teams can bring these kids in and give them two years to develop into a role, we are not one of those teams right now.
BlitzBuster
Well-Known Member
CAARHawk
"I don't really have any idea if Washpun is goin to be able to be successful. But I can say it is starting to appear as if this staff is challenged with respect to closing on recruits. So, my feeling is that maybe it needs to get really dark to force Fran to make some changes."
Don't suppose this has anything to do with our record for the past few years.
"I don't really have any idea if Washpun is goin to be able to be successful. But I can say it is starting to appear as if this staff is challenged with respect to closing on recruits. So, my feeling is that maybe it needs to get really dark to force Fran to make some changes."
Don't suppose this has anything to do with our record for the past few years.
homes
Well-Known Member
Not at the hs -> college level, but it's well documented Derrick Rose made himself a much better shooter over the past summer. It can be done, but it takes a lot of work. Not comparing talent level of the 2, only that shooting can be taught. It's up to the individual to put in the time.
SteveGarvey
Well-Known Member
Guess if Rondo was a good shooter coming out of high school he would have been a 6 star prospect then
That's why I said he probably wasn't going to be as good as Rondo. Just saying that shooting % isn't the only consideration.
JRHawks5969
Well-Known Member
Good recruiters can get talent to the worst of programs. Kansas State and Tenn. come to mind. And it's not like we're competing with powerhouse programs anyway. We're losing players to mediocre programs like NC State, Oklahoma State, etc.
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
It's pretty simple. Look at our record the past few years; we suck. You don't think other coaches are using that against us? How about the fact Iowa has gone through four coaches in just over a decade, and not because they're moving on to better things......we got rid of Mr. Davis which seemed to divide the fan base.
Alford had his issues, and it was seen as though we ran him out of town, and Lick was one of the worst hires I can ever remember on a major college bball level. And you get the idea that he was run out of town too.
So recurits see this, and other schools do too. So why would a decent player come to Iowa if they're not sure Fran will be around in year 3 or 4? And why come to a place that doesn't support it's team? It's embarrassing watching those games on TV and seeing NO ONE in the stands. This year attendence did appear to be better, but if Iowa starts out poorly again next year, you think people will still come out? They'll be saying the same thing about Fran that they did about Lick.
So far Fran's recruiting has been extremely disappointing, regardless of Cartwright and Basabe. He's had a full year now, and other than those two guys, and a 2012 recruit we haven't seen....what else have we got? I will say White sounds promising, but we continue to lose out on top kids.
and if Washpun can't shoot, don't want him. We need scorers, cause the guys on the team who are supposed to be our scorers (Gatens) can't buy a bucket after the first five minutes.
I will still cross my fingers this staff can land some decent talent in the next month.
Alford had his issues, and it was seen as though we ran him out of town, and Lick was one of the worst hires I can ever remember on a major college bball level. And you get the idea that he was run out of town too.
So recurits see this, and other schools do too. So why would a decent player come to Iowa if they're not sure Fran will be around in year 3 or 4? And why come to a place that doesn't support it's team? It's embarrassing watching those games on TV and seeing NO ONE in the stands. This year attendence did appear to be better, but if Iowa starts out poorly again next year, you think people will still come out? They'll be saying the same thing about Fran that they did about Lick.
So far Fran's recruiting has been extremely disappointing, regardless of Cartwright and Basabe. He's had a full year now, and other than those two guys, and a 2012 recruit we haven't seen....what else have we got? I will say White sounds promising, but we continue to lose out on top kids.
and if Washpun can't shoot, don't want him. We need scorers, cause the guys on the team who are supposed to be our scorers (Gatens) can't buy a bucket after the first five minutes.
I will still cross my fingers this staff can land some decent talent in the next month.
DunderMifflinHk
Well-Known Member
Don't worry someone is going to reply to your post by saying something to the effect of "Washpun is no where near as good as Rose!!!" But yes I agree, once Washpun get's to college he'll have a ton more resources to work with to improve his shot. I think people are getting way too worked up about this offer. Technically (if he commits) it's a trade of Cully for Washpun. We won't be any worse off than last year. Hopefully Fran can snag Olaseni and a Juco PG so Washpun has time to work on his game and be the started come his Junior year.
Yes, it does. But Fran was hired to turn around a program, not continue the current trend.
I documented the data from the last seven years that showed that successful recruiters as new hire coaches turned their recruiting around almost immediately. The only two that didn't do it within their first two classes, including the year they got hired were Montgomery from Cal and Horn from South Carolina and they did it in their third class, which for Fran will be this November's class. I did this before Fran was hired and continued to discuss it after he was hired. I laid out a blueprint that showed what would need to happen with respect to recruiting. Thought Ogelsby and White were a good start. If Fran was able to get a few more 3 star types in the Spring signing period and then continue that with possibly one 4 star type in fall, he would be on his way. But, not being able to close on those types of players and dropping your overall star rankings below 3 is a really bad sign, if it happens.
That being said, the current class, even with Washpun, would be three 3 star level guys on Rivals, which is the site I go by. Really, the issue isn't Washpun, who will most likely be a good addition to be able to run the full court defense Fran wants to run. But it is about the possibility that Fran will not be able to close on the other players the program seriously needs.
But I can say this, at least his fallback players are more athletic and higher ranked than Lick's fallback guys.
Is it really hard to turn a program around at the major conference level? Absolutely. The only guys that seem to be able to do it, either are HUGE name hires, or get called out for cheating pretty darn quick.
BigD
Well-Known Member
Is this a diamond in the rough or a piece of coal. I hope diamond. My first impressions are like many of yours. If this kid commits to Iowa I hope that I am wrong and that I have a lot of eggs on my face. I had commented on another thread that Fran needed to get on it, meaning that he needed to get a good recruit to commit. This is not what I had in mind. Hopefully will will land a more touted guard soon.
I will take the wait and see attitude til we are done with the spring recruiting.
I agree that on paper, this does not give confidence that we are very optimistic about our other pg targets. Not scoring on your initial targets is never a good thing.
I watched Derrick Rose in high school,and at memphis...he was always a good mid-range shooter,and of course he could get to the rim at will,so he never really needed to shoot from the arc that much. Always at least a 75% free throw shooter also..so I think he always had natural shooting talent,but did not need it until the NBA,and he fine-tuned it then.
Rondo is a better comparison,but clearly,he is unique and special pg with talents that are so rare that no comparison really works there either.
Washpun is clearly a fallback recruit,or he would not have been languishing all fall and spring without an offer. No shame in that,tho,it happens all the time,to some good players.
It certainly muddies the waters for next year,tho. I really do not relish bringing in two pgs this spring when Iowa has so many other needs.
Underwhelmed? Sure...but will let it play out before any definitive comments.
I agree that on paper, this does not give confidence that we are very optimistic about our other pg targets. Not scoring on your initial targets is never a good thing.
I watched Derrick Rose in high school,and at memphis...he was always a good mid-range shooter,and of course he could get to the rim at will,so he never really needed to shoot from the arc that much. Always at least a 75% free throw shooter also..so I think he always had natural shooting talent,but did not need it until the NBA,and he fine-tuned it then.
Rondo is a better comparison,but clearly,he is unique and special pg with talents that are so rare that no comparison really works there either.
Washpun is clearly a fallback recruit,or he would not have been languishing all fall and spring without an offer. No shame in that,tho,it happens all the time,to some good players.
It certainly muddies the waters for next year,tho. I really do not relish bringing in two pgs this spring when Iowa has so many other needs.
Underwhelmed? Sure...but will let it play out before any definitive comments.
rodg12
Well-Known Member
I like what I'm hearing about his athleticism and, especially, his defensive ability. We were a bad defensive team last year and need marked improvement there. Sounds like his shot needs some work. All I know is, if Wes ends up committing, I'll be pulling big time for the guy to succeed. From all indications, the kid's dream was to play ball for the Hawks. Can't help but pull for a guy like that.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
Guess if Rondo was a good shooter coming out of high school he would have been a 6 star prospect then
That's why I said he probably wasn't going to be as good as Rondo. Just saying that shooting % isn't the only consideration.
You can probably remove the "probably" from this statement. I'll end the suspense and say that Waspun is not going to leave Iowa early to enter the NBA and within his first 2 seasons become arguably the best PG in the NBA.