Is it the coaching or players...

#1DieHardHawk

#1DieHardHawk

Well-Known Member
Or both?

Obviously, it's both, but, at the end of the day, the majority of the issues with the program right now fall back on the coaches. Several players are struggling, and, in some cases, the talent is simply lacking, but, ultimately, it's on the coaches to develop the players and that's not happening.

Unless he suddenly retires, Kirk isn't going anywhere, so, while it may be cathartic to ponder, ultimately it's a waste of time proposing that as a solution. As others have pointed out, his ideal plan would be to retire on a high note so that Brian can seamlessly slide into the HC position. The question is, will that high note ever come with Brian as the OC? It's almost impossible to imagine Kirk demoting his own son, but, if the same issues plague this offense next season, there will be tremendous pressure on him to do just that.

But, the scary thing is that it's not just Brian. There appears to be failures at multiple levels.

The O-line has regressed under Polasek, special teams have been a disaster under Woods, WRs have not shown any improvement under Copeland, and, of course, the same criticisms of the defense are always present under Parker, with the conservative "bend-but-don't-break" philosophy. Even Doyle, whom is viewed as a demi-god by most fans, is not immune to criticism. Just look at the trenches, where Render, Reynolds and even Daniels and Welsh are getting manhandled and don't look any stronger or stouter than last season. While, on the defensive line, the majority show no explosion and move like their feet weigh 80 lbs. While Brian's struggles I'm sure eat at him, my guess is it's the failure of the staff as a whole that is haunting Kirk right now.

Many of the coaches are new, or at least new to their positions, and the recruiting, while certainly far from perfect, does appear to be on the upswing the last couple of cycles. Because of that, I'm willing to give the coaches the benefit of the doubt this season, but, the '18 and '19 seasons could very well be the defining seasons for where this program heads for the next 10-20 years.
 
I can say without a doubt that his is 100% on the players, They have been letting Ferentz down since week one. Its too bad they can't be fired like in the pros.
 
It starts with recruiting, and thats on the coaches. You bring in subpar talent, and you get what you see for Iowa football. You can only coach up subpar talent so much, the ceiling for most of these guys is only so high. Thats not downgrading the players, its simply the fact of the matter. On top of that our coaching sucks, plain and simple. There are too many things wrong with it to even list. They pride themselves on claiming we're a developmental program, which is a built in excuse year in and year out for subpar coaching and performance. Sorry in your 19th year this developmental program shit doesn't fly. This team looks completely unprepared, totally overmatched, just clueless. They look like they don't even practice. You really think any of these players believe in these coaches? Doyle needs to take a hike along with the entire coaching staff. I've never seen an Iowa team get shoved around on both sides of the ball like we are now. Sure the receivers drop balls, etc. This is what happens when you're competing in the B1G with maybe MAC level talent at skill positions. Ultimately everything falls on KF. He is responsible for bringing in the players that he fails to get ready to compete. It's far past the time for him to be gone.
 
To expand, I think the players got swelled heads after the win over O$U, and thought they could just phone it in.

They're not good enough to do that against ANY team, let alone a B1G team, especially Wisconsin.
 
I think there is a lot of talent on this team. We need a hungrier and more aggressive staff. Just speaking to this season, it might have gone better if they'd left BF on the line and brought in Polasek for OC. Intsead, both guys are coaching a spot where they had zero experience.
 
Caddy said:
It starts with recruiting, and thats on the coaches. You bring in subpar talent, and you get what you see for Iowa football. You can only coach up subpar talent so much, the ceiling for most of these guys is only so high. Thats not downgrading the players, its simply the fact of the matter. On top of that our coaching sucks, plain and simple. There are too many things wrong with it to even list. They pride themselves on claiming we're a developmental program, which is a built in excuse year in and year out for subpar coaching and performance. Sorry in your 19th year this developmental program shit doesn't fly. This team looks completely unprepared, totally overmatched, just clueless. They look like they don't even practice. You really think any of these players believe in these coaches? Doyle needs to take a hike along with the entire coaching staff. I've never seen an Iowa team get shoved around on both sides of the ball like we are now. Sure the receivers drop balls, etc. This is what happens when you're competing in the B1G with maybe MAC level talent at skill positions. Ultimately everything falls on KF. He is responsible for bringing in the players that he fails to get ready to compete. It's far past the time for him to be gone.
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Recruiting is the life-blood of any program, but, it is a very inexact science. Some of the very best players we've had over the last 15 years have been low-level recruits. By the same token, many of our highest-rated recruits never panned out. I've been very critical of M. Nelson, for example (as a player, not as a person). The guy simply has no quick-twitch ability at all, and he was a 4-star recruit. Perhaps if he had been groomed for OT from the beginning... but we'll never know.

At the end of the day, every program has the same gambles, but you still have to make the most of what you have on the roster, and, I think this is where the current coaching staff is faltering. From last season to this season, I expected to see significant leaps from many players, including Daniels, Welsh, Hesse, A. Nelson, Lattimore, Render, Rugamba, Devonte Young, etc., but each player has looked the same or even worse (except perhaps for size, which is a misleading statistic IMO).
 
Note: I posted something similar on another thread but it applies here as well.

Both the coaching staff and players share the blame, BUT the main responsibility for getting it corrected is with the coaching staff and the primary way to accomplish that is to create game plans that build the players' confidence.

Nate Stanley is not instilling the necessary confidence in the huddle, certainly not like C.J. Beathard did when he played at Iowa, especially in the 2015 season. I don't know Nate Stanley at all but he seems to be a soft-spoken, unassuming guy, which is fine, but he needs to take charge of the team when they are on the field.

Confidence is an intangible concept - it's either present or it's not and when it's not present, it's very hard to "fake it". In fact, faking it only erodes the team's play even further because everyone can see that it's phony. Success instills confidence and confidence brings further success, that is why the coaching staff needs to carefully plan each game so that the confidence can genuinely grow throughout the year.

Just once in the KF era I would like to hear what they are doing to address blatant shortcomings in the program. I must say I am quite disappointed when KF addresses the fans and reporters like we are too dense to understand the nuances of the game, thus the trite answers "we need to execute better", "that's football", etc. Doesn't he realize his team is hearing the same canned responses and they are walking away with less confidence in their own coaching staff?

We saw genuine confidence on the field in the OSU game, on both sides of the ball, that was as real as it gets. I certainly understand that game was not what we can expect every game but KF needs to take a close look at what he and his staff are doing to destroy their own players' confidence. We've seen too many examples recently to not warrant his full attention.
 
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#1DieHardHawk said:
Recruiting is the life-blood of any program, but, it is a very inexact science. Some of the very best players we've had over the last 15 years have been low-level recruits. By the same token, many of our highest-rated recruits never panned out. I've been very critical of M. Nelson, for example (as a player, not as a person). The guy simply has no quick-twitch ability at all, and he was a 4-star recruit. Perhaps if he had been groomed for OT from the beginning... but we'll never know.

At the end of the day, every program has the same gambles, but you still have to make the most of what you have on the roster, and, I think this is where the current coaching staff is faltering. From last season to this season, I expected to see significant leaps from many players, including Daniels, Welsh, Hesse, A. Nelson, Lattimore, Render, Rugamba, Devonte Young, etc., but each player has looked the same or even worse (except perhaps for size, which is a misleading statistic IMO).
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That said, I honestly believe our recruiting is showing signs of life. There is some serious young talent there. Just to name a few, but Epenesa (legacy so probably doesn't count as a win by the coaches, but still), Hooker, Hankins, Turner, Stone, Jackson, Wirfs, Kallenberger, Fant, Hock, the young running backs, Brents, Johnson, Doyle, Evans, Tracy, Jenkins and Mansell. And, I still believe that Stanley will end up outstanding before it's all said and done. We are getting some talent but will we translate it to the field? That's the question.
 
DJI9424 said:
Note: I posted something similar on another thread but it applies here as well.

Both the coaching staff and players share the blame, BUT the main responsibility for getting it corrected is with the coaching staff and the primary way to accomplish that is to create game plans that build the players' confidence.

Nate Stanley is not instilling the necessary confidence in the huddle, certainly not like C.J. Beathard did when he played at Iowa, especially in the 2015 season. I don't know Nate Stanley at all but he seems to be a soft-spoken, unassuming guy, which is fine, but he needs to take charge of the team when they are on the field.

Confidence is an intangible concept - it's either present or it's not and when it's not present, it's very hard to "fake it". In fact, faking it only erodes the team's play even further because everyone can see that it's phony. Success instills confidence and confidence brings success, that is why the coaching staff needs to carefully plan each game so that the confidence can genuinely grow throughout the year.

Just once in the KF era I would like to hear what they are doing to address blatant shortcomings in the program. I must say I am quite disappointed when KF addresses the fans and reporters like we are too dense to understand the nuances of the game, thus the trite answers "we need to execute better", "that's football", etc. Doesn't he realize his team is hearing the same canned responses and they are walking away with less confidence in their own coaching staff?

We saw genuine confidence on the field in the OSU game, on both sides of the ball, that was as real as it gets. I certainly understand that game was not what we can expect every game but KF needs to take a close look at what he and his staff are doing to destroy their own players' confidence. We've seen too many examples recently to not warrant his full attention.
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One of the negatives of Kirk's coaching style is that he approaches the position with many of the same philosophies that you see in the NFL. That can be both good and bad, but, with 19/20 year-olds, sometimes you have to build them up mentally while you're working on them physically. Confidence, motivation, channeled intensity, etc., are all keys to performance, and the best college coaches understand the importance of nurturing those traits. NFL coaches put more on the players to self-motivate. Kirk's lack of passion almost certainly holds his players back at times.
 
It is both, but I think the Xs and Os have really cost Iowa in at least 4 of their losses (probably all 5). I can't defend the Purdue loss at all. It is embarrassing because this team is underachieving. They are better than pre-season expectations and are going to sadly finish at those expectation levels. A team that destroyed mighty Ohio St could loss out the rest of the year. That should not happen. That has zero business of happening. You don't lose a team after beating a team like that unless you are content on folding pocket Aces to start a hand because you might lose with it in future betting rounds.

I'm guessing the players are fed up with the play calls coming in. I'm sure the defense is tired of defending only to see their offense go 3 and out time and time again. It is probably quite hard to be a Hawkeye player now and days.
 
thetrza said:
I can say without a doubt that his is 100% on the players, They have been letting Ferentz down since week one. Its too bad they can't be fired like in the pros.
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I could not disagree more. I have seen average talented teams (Iowa and other schools) go out and play well and play winning football.

This is pervasive poor execution. There is an intangible at play here.

I say its on the coaches.
 
You mean you guys don't love the stability of underachieving we've been graced with for nineteen years? The scratch your head coaching decisions? The no game planning and lack of adjusting when what your doing isn't working? The that's football and I don't have an answer press conference crap? The losing to less than inferior opponents?
 
Recruiting could always improve, especially at WR, but a team that destroyed osu the way they did should not lose to fricken Purdue. We have some talent.. So I put this more on the coaches. Most specifically the offense. It's always been the offense that holds this program back.

Oh, and when's the last time you could say special teams were a strength? Been a while.
 
#1DieHardHawk said:
One of the negatives of Kirk's coaching style is that he approaches the position with many of the same philosophies that you see in the NFL. That can be both good and bad, but, with 19/20 year-olds, sometimes you have to build them up mentally while you're working on them physically. Confidence, motivation, channeled intensity, etc., are all keys to performance, and the best college coaches understand the importance of nurturing those traits. NFL coaches put more on the players to self-motivate. Kirk's lack of passion almost certainly holds his players back at times.
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Yeah, it's like they are getting paid to perform, just like he is - ahem, well, just like he should be. If Gary Barta has ever held KF accountable for anything on the field of play, I'd be more than surprised.
 
To start with, the players that are put in the position to make a play need to make it. How many big time drops, missed tackles, whiffed blocks, etc could have changed the course of drives and possibly the game over the course of the year? I am not around the staff to make an educated opinion during the week. I think the coaches do a good job of developing the players and putting them in a position to succeed they need to make the plays when they have the chance..

The thing about the coaching staff I am able to see on game day is the maddening inability to make a decision based on what is going on present time. Is it incompetence or just stubbornness? It's like they have to stick to the game plan no matter what. For normal people at some point you have to say F it, what we are doing isn't working and I need to make a change. For Iowa the change doesn't come until its too late or even at all.

Ultimately it is a team game and neither the players or coaches can be proud of what they did yesterday and for some moments of the year. Same old Iowa "What could have been"
 
kameltoez102 said:
To start with, the players that are put in the position to make a play need to make it. How many big time drops, missed tackles, whiffed blocks, etc could have changed the course of drives and possibly the game over the course of the year? I am not around the staff to make an educated opinion during the week. I think the coaches do a good job of developing the players and putting them in a position to succeed they need to make the plays when they have the chance..

The thing about the coaching staff I am able to see on game day is the maddening inability to make a decision based on what is going on present time. Is it incompetence or just stubbornness? It's like they have to stick to the game plan no matter what. For normal people at some point you have to say F it, what we are doing isn't working and I need to make a change. For Iowa the change doesn't come until its too late or even at all.

Ultimately it is a team game and neither the players or coaches can be proud of what they did yesterday and for some moments of the year. Same old Iowa "What could have been"
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This is a tough one, and I go back and forth on this. When players screw up, you could argue that the individual player just isn't very good (lack of talent), or, you could argue that he is not being coached well. It's on the coaches to teach proper technique, be it catching the ball, tackling or blocking effectively, so who is to blame? Personally, there are traits you can't coach, such as speed, quick-twitch ability, coordination, hand size, arm length, etc., so when I see players underperform because they are slow or uncoordinated, I think lack of talent. When I see a player drop a pass because the fingers aren't spread or they aren't looking the ball all the way into the hands, or a player miss a block due to poor footwork or hand placement, I think coaching. We do have lack of talent at certain positions (WR, DE - both for what seems an eternity) but I think right now we are seeing more of the latter.
 
I am going to weigh in with a sense of urgency and more uptempo offensive philosophy that players seem to enjoy. We are so slow to get plays in, to line up, to make checks or audibles, and then bark off snap counts.

I wonder if the players would get more pumped finishing a play, quick huddle or line up, quick call in from sideline, and go.
 
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