Is it the coaching or players...

[99topdawg]

Here's my question that goes along with this topic: When we go 12-0, 11-1, blow out OSU, beat Michigan, etc. is it the coaches or the players?

When we lose to WMU, ISU, Purdue, go 4-8, get 66 yards of offense, is the answer the same? Shouldn't it be?

 

[Joshbrown]

Here's my question that goes along with this topic: When we go 12-0, 11-1, blow out OSU, beat Michigan, etc. is it the coaches or the players?

When we lose to WMU, ISU, Purdue, go 4-8, get 66 yards of offense, is the answer the same? Shouldn't it be?

Yep, the guys making the $$$$$$$$$ get credit win or lose.

The problem comes with the contracts. If you look at how they are negotiated they only take the good years into account. By definition that means accountability is lacking.
2016 a big raise and extension and the green light to make your son the next HC.
It makes sense right? 2015 was a record year. The problem is the AD should've known it was fools gold by his previous experience. He also should've been honest with Kirk that 2015 was make-up time for 5 consecutive chump years.

 

[DJI9424]

Saban/Meyer know how to manage the egos of


Yep, the guys making the $$$$$$$$$ get credit win or lose.

The problem comes with the contracts. If you look at how they are negotiated they only take the good years into account. By definition that means accountability is lacking.
2016 a big raise and extension and the green light to make your son the next HC.
It makes sense right? 2015 was a record year. The problem is the AD should've known it was fools gold by his previous experience. He also should've been honest with Kirk that 2015 was make-up time for 5 consecutive chump years.

Exactly, Barta enabled this mess because he rewarded KF for one great year after 5 years of mediocrity. I don't know of any other business where the CEO could expect such treatment - they would have been gone before they had the one great year. And in my view, KF was blessed with a QB that was able to overcome KF's own shortcomings.

Remember how some people (I was one) were screaming for KF to bench Jake Rudock in 2014, yet he wouldn't do so until CJ threatened to leave the program after the season. KF made the decision to let CJ play in 2015, but CJ really deserves most of the credit for that season and just think how close he came to not being able to display his talent on the field because KF was too stubborn to give him a fair chance? CJ forced KF into giving him the chance and Barta rewarded the man who had been the roadblock all along. If anything, KF owes CJ at least one full year of his contract because without CJ, it never would have happened.

 

[homes]

Here's my question that goes along with this topic: When we go 12-0, 11-1, blow out OSU, beat Michigan, etc. is it the coaches or the players?

When we lose to WMU, ISU, Purdue, go 4-8, get 66 yards of offense, is the answer the same? Shouldn't it be?

I think this team was capable of winning at least 9 games this year, but now can win only 7 (not counting the exhibition game at the end of the year, because will it really make a difference if Iowa wins a bowl championship (remember that one?)), but timid offensive game plans against MSU, Northwestern and Purdue cost them at least 2 of those games.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

Here's my question that goes along with this topic: When we go 12-0, 11-1, blow out OSU, beat Michigan, etc. is it the coaches or the players?

When we lose to WMU, ISU, Purdue, go 4-8, get 66 yards of offense, is the answer the same? Shouldn't it be?

Extreme inconsistency - which is driving the entire Hawkeye Nation crazy - definitely falls back on the coaches. They are paid to put a product on the field every week that, at the very least, shows gradual progress.

While we all get tired of the typical slow season starts and lack of execution, historically we at least could reasonably expect gradual improvement, with the team peaking in November (then, of course, completely falling flat on our face in the bowl game, but that's a different story...). Kirk has always hung his hat on that mantra. This season, we are regressing as the season goes along, and, my guess is that regression is bothering Kirk more than almost anything.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Yeah certainly it's all on the guys who don't get paid to do this for a living. You know, it's not like they have class and things like that to worry about. I mean the coaches are the ones that have it hard -- they only make a few mil a year and have 50 hours a week to work on game planning and schemes...oh, and they have to work on saturdays (but don't worry, doesn't look like KF actually does anything on saturdays).

Didn't say "all" on the guys. But you're hard-on for all things Ferentz is certainly not new.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I honestly having lived in a number of Big States ever have recall of another fan base that turns on players over the coaches. Only here...and only a few.

Let me suggest that 320 yards of offense (two weeks) isn't on the players swelled heads. I thought Dean was the kind of shameful remarks. You are making a run at him.

So you're saying you have seen excellent stuff from the players, just the coaches f'ing up? Got it.

There's enough blame to go around. You and the Kill KF Crowd certainly make your hatred well-known.

Of COURSE some of it is on the coaches. Duh.

But if you can't see fundamentals all but being ignored by both young AND veteran players, you're blind. If you DO see it and think it's only on the coaches and the players have no "ownership", not sure what I can tell you.

It was just an observation, Comrade. Not an indictment of any one player. I simply think the O$U game (much like last year's ISU game) was fool's gold. We have some talent (according to you, more than O$U, or so you said), but not enough to phone it in.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Snagged another one

Of course it ultimately falls on the coaches. Who would say otherwise?

But just because you, Goldy and the other Kill KF Crowd don't like him, it doesn't mean the players get off without blame. If you--honestly--can watch the Purdue game and NOT put any of it on the players, it means YOU have the deeper problem.

Any sane person can see that--for whatever reason--the players have lost that "something" since the O$U game. Unless, of course, you're 100% on the coaching, and acknowledge that the O$U win was on the coaching, not the players....

















...Didn't think so

 

[HawkGold]

So you're saying you have seen excellent stuff from the players, just the coaches f'ing up? Got it.

There's enough blame to go around. You and the Kill KF Crowd certainly make your hatred well-known.

Of COURSE some of it is on the coaches. Duh.

But if you can't see fundamentals all but being ignored by both young AND veteran players, you're blind. If you DO see it and think it's only on the coaches and the players have no "ownership", not sure what I can tell you.

It was just an observation, Comrade. Not an indictment of any one player. I simply think the O$U game (much like last year's ISU game) was fool's gold. We have some talent (according to you, more than O$U, or so you said), but not enough to phone it in.

Maybe you would do well not throwing first volleys of stones before switching sides because the wind gets high enough for you. I made observations before you and you put me in the KF hate crowd.

You are pathetic.

 

[deanvogs]

Maybe you would do well not throwing first volleys of stones before switching sides because the wind gets high enough for you. I made observations before you and you put me in the KF hate crowd.

You are pathetic.

Typical @HawkGold calling people names and bullying them.

 

[tksirius]

Of course it ultimately falls on the coaches. Who would say otherwise?

But just because you, Goldy and the other Kill KF Crowd don't like him, it doesn't mean the players get off without blame. If you--honestly--can watch the Purdue game and NOT put any of it on the players, it means YOU have the deeper problem.

Any sane person can see that--for whatever reason--the players have lost that "something" since the O$U game. Unless, of course, you're 100% on the coaching, and acknowledge that the O$U win was on the coaching, not the players....

















...Didn't think so

Lol still struggling on the line

 

[HawkGold]

Typical @HawkGold calling people names and bullying them.

You are another of the bandwagon crowd. You are the best at name calling but of course you missed his nsme calling.

 

[deanvogs]

You are another of the bandwagon crowd. You are the best at name calling but of course you missed his nsme calling.

Just typical bullying @HawkGold
So it’s ok to name call if they do it? You shouldn’t have any problems with being called names as I see you calling people pathetic and all sorts of crap.

 

[SheagleHawk]

Of course it ultimately falls on the coaches. Who would say otherwise?

But just because you, Goldy and the other Kill KF Crowd don't like him, it doesn't mean the players get off without blame. If you--honestly--can watch the Purdue game and NOT put any of it on the players, it means YOU have the deeper problem.

Any sane person can see that--for whatever reason--the players have lost that "something" since the O$U game. Unless, of course, you're 100% on the coaching, and acknowledge that the O$U win was on the coaching, not the players....

The problem is Kirk's leather helmet philosophy and schemes allow shit teams to beat more talented Iowa teams regularly if Iowa doesn't damn near execute every facet of the game perfectly. There is no room for error against even the worst programs in college football. How the hell is that the fault of the players? That's completely on KF. 100% on the $5 million man.
















...Didn't think so

 

[hawkeye23]

Or both?

Obviously, it's both, but, at the end of the day, the majority of the issues with the program right now fall back on the coaches. Several players are struggling, and, in some cases, the talent is simply lacking, but, ultimately, it's on the coaches to develop the players and that's not happening.

Unless he suddenly retires, Kirk isn't going anywhere, so, while it may be cathartic to ponder, ultimately it's a waste of time proposing that as a solution. As others have pointed out, his ideal plan would be to retire on a high note so that Brian can seamlessly slide into the HC position. The question is, will that high note ever come with Brian as the OC? It's almost impossible to imagine Kirk demoting his own son, but, if the same issues plague this offense next season, there will be tremendous pressure on him to do just that.

But, the scary thing is that it's not just Brian. There appears to be failures at multiple levels.

The O-line has regressed under Polasek, special teams have been a disaster under Woods, WRs have not shown any improvement under Copeland, and, of course, the same criticisms of the defense are always present under Parker, with the conservative "bend-but-don't-break" philosophy. Even Doyle, whom is viewed as a demi-god by most fans, is not immune to criticism. Just look at the trenches, where Render, Reynolds and even Daniels and Welsh are getting manhandled and don't look any stronger or stouter than last season. While, on the defensive line, the majority show no explosion and move like their feet weigh 80 lbs. While Brian's struggles I'm sure eat at him, my guess is it's the failure of the staff as a whole that is haunting Kirk right now.

Many of the coaches are new, or at least new to their positions, and the recruiting, while certainly far from perfect, does appear to be on the upswing the last couple of cycles. Because of that, I'm willing to give the coaches the benefit of the doubt this season, but, the '18 and '19 seasons could very well be the defining seasons for where this program heads for the next 10-20 years.

This is what happens when you don't develop in a developmental program. A lot less room for error. Not sure I blame a whole lot on Parker. Norm always ran a bend and don't break defense as well. Given what they have had to work with in terms of field position, etc, I think the defense has been pretty damn good.

 

[hawkeye23]

I can say without a doubt that his is 100% on the players, They have been letting Ferentz down since week one. Its too bad they can't be fired like in the pros.

So when they run Wadley into 8 and 9 man fronts time after time after time, it's on the players? When they don't run screens or other plays to the flat to get Wadley in space, that's on the players? When they don't put in a steam rolling RB like Young, that's on the players? When they don't run the plays to properly target TE's, that's on the players? Players have plenty of ownership in this but it's 100% not 100%

 

[hawkeye23]

You mean you guys don't love the stability of underachieving we've been graced with for nineteen years? The scratch your head coaching decisions? The no game planning and lack of adjusting when what your doing isn't working? The that's football and I don't have an answer press conference crap? The losing to less than inferior opponents?

Well, just think, I just read that if Iowa wins Friday...Barta's high expectations of 7 win seasons will net KF an added $2.4M to his buyout, 8% raise to the rest of the staff and if there's a bowl game, KF gets another $500k bonus.

 

[racerhawk]

Or both?

Obviously, it's both, but, at the end of the day, the majority of the issues with the program right now fall back on the coaches. Several players are struggling, and, in some cases, the talent is simply lacking, but, ultimately, it's on the coaches to develop the players and that's not happening.

Unless he suddenly retires, Kirk isn't going anywhere, so, while it may be cathartic to ponder, ultimately it's a waste of time proposing that as a solution. As others have pointed out, his ideal plan would be to retire on a high note so that Brian can seamlessly slide into the HC position. The question is, will that high note ever come with Brian as the OC? It's almost impossible to imagine Kirk demoting his own son, but, if the same issues plague this offense next season, there will be tremendous pressure on him to do just that.

But, the scary thing is that it's not just Brian. There appears to be failures at multiple levels.

The O-line has regressed under Polasek, special teams have been a disaster under Woods, WRs have not shown any improvement under Copeland, and, of course, the same criticisms of the defense are always present under Parker, with the conservative "bend-but-don't-break" philosophy. Even Doyle, whom is viewed as a demi-god by most fans, is not immune to criticism. Just look at the trenches, where Render, Reynolds and even Daniels and Welsh are getting manhandled and don't look any stronger or stouter than last season. While, on the defensive line, the majority show no explosion and move like their feet weigh 80 lbs. While Brian's struggles I'm sure eat at him, my guess is it's the failure of the staff as a whole that is haunting Kirk right now.

Many of the coaches are new, or at least new to their positions, and the recruiting, while certainly far from perfect, does appear to be on the upswing the last couple of cycles. Because of that, I'm willing to give the coaches the benefit of the doubt this season, but, the '18 and '19 seasons could very well be the defining seasons for where this program heads for the next 10-20 years.

The offensive line has been horrible this year (I know they have a couple of first year starters, but...). The jury is out on the entire offensive coaching staff, but the O line coach, I think, deserves a bit of scrutiny along with BF.

 

[hawkeye23]

Tell me what's wrong with the following sentence:

"If we just got rid of the current players, and put Kirk Ferentz in charge of bringing in a new group of players. Then our problems would be solved."

Take your time. Maybe read it twice. Here's a practice question to get the logic circuits firing on all cylinders.

1) Spoon
2) Fork
3) Watermelon

Which of the above three is not like the other two?

Same as:
If we just get rid of KOK, we'll be good. If we just get rid of GDGD, we'll be good. If we just get rid of BF, we'll be good.....only one constant in the equation.

 

[SCHawkeye2]

The offensive line has been horrible this year (I know they have a couple of first year starters, but...). The jury is out on the entire offensive coaching staff, but the O line coach, I think, deserves a bit of scrutiny along with BF.

The current OL is composed of BF recruits, coached by BF until this year.
Hard to pin this on the new OL coach.
Brian failled miserably as OL coach - recruiting and developing.
Despite this obvious failure, he was promoted to OC by his father.