Is Iowa Better Without Tyler Cook?

NorthKCHawk said:
My minimum expectations is that Patrick steps in next season and fills in the role that Baer had. One would hope that a Top 75 national kid with freakish skills could fill the role of a former walk-on, but we all know how special Baer was beyond just his stats. That said, I think Patrick has all the skills and then some, and I am actually hoping his role is bigger than Baer's. We will have a lot of strong, upper class men leadership next year, so Patrick should just focus on getting Baer's boards, shots, steals and D.
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What s freakish? I suppose a push set shot was pretty good in 6x6 bb in Iowa. Been a long time
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Boy...the regular contributors are sure setting a great example about not dissing players. Even asking this question is a dis to Tyler Cook. How is it not? I'll bet Tyler Cook thinks Iowa is better with him. Question...if you were playing a pick up game, who would you take? Tyler Cook or Ryan Kreiner/Cordell Pemsl? I'm taking Tyler Cook.
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Th response to the thread title requires two letters/one word: No
 
lightning1 said:
I'm not particularly looking for any debate. I'm simply pointing out some facts for some unnamed posters that like to rip on TC but ignore the facts about other players. I think advanced stats have a place but they are incomplete, at best. As I already stated. There is no advanced stat to describe the amount of defensive pressure Cook draws vs Garza, when they are on the floor at the same time. If there is, I'd like to see it.
The argument isn't what combination of players can replace Cook, IMO. It's what combination can replace Cook and Baer. That's 21 PPG and 12 RPG. That kind of production is going to be a tall order for the players we currently have on the roster. Especially when you factor in Baer's 3 pt shooting and garbage man attributes. We'll all have to wait and see who does or doesn't step up. Whoever it is, they'll get the benefit of less defensive attention than Garza, Bohannon and Weiskamp. Those 3 will bare that responsibility next season. (Bohannon saw his share of that this season too)
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Dude, you're going way overboard. The thread title asks if Iowa is better without Tyler Cook. It's as simple an answer as one could give: No
 
WindsorHawk said:
I would love to have Owens of Texas Tech. He’s listed at 6’10” and 205.
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Tariq Owens falls more into the Olaseni category IMO, superior athleticism, hustle player, and great shot blocker. Patrick could be some of that for us...but probably more like his sophomore or junior year and also likely won't have as many blocked shots. He had a 35 inch vertical his junior summer but only has a 6'6 wingspan being 6'7 without shoes. Olaseni has a 7'3.5 wingspan and Owens has a 7'4 wingspan by comparison. That's a huge difference when it comes to interrupting passing lanes and coming out of nowhere to unexpectedly challenge shots. That said, Patrick is a much better shooter and has a much higher basketball IQ.
 
N8theGr8 said:
Tariq Owens falls more into the Olaseni category IMO, superior athleticism, hustle player, and great shot blocker. Patrick could be some of that for us...but probably more like his sophomore or junior year and also likely won't have as many blocked shots. He had a 35 inch vertical his junior summer but only has a 6'6 wingspan being 6'7 without shoes. Olaseni has a 7'3.5 wingspan and Owens has a 7'4 wingspan by comparison. That's a huge difference when it comes to interrupting passing lanes and coming out of nowhere to unexpectedly challenge shots. That said, Patrick is a much better shooter and has a much higher basketball IQ.
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I don’t disagree with this. I was making the point Owens is a tall thin guy that can play. Patrick is a tall thin guy. That doesn’t mean he can’t play...as many have suggested.
 
IHawk94 said:
I know we did this last spring after I posed the same question, but I am here to take a different stance. I agree with an above poster that I don't think Iowa will be a better or worse team without Cook (if the rumors are true), but they will be a different team. I would argue Nunge is a better partner to Garza than Cook is because he provides more spacing in the offense with his shooting. Pemsl can make the 15 ft jumper, as Cook has not shown he can do like I thought he would this year. Nunge is better shot blocker than Cook, not more athletic than Cook, that can't be made up by anyone on the roster. But Nunge was the leading shot blocker last year as a FR. I do agree with you that Cook's turnovers are overblown by most, but I also understand because he doesn't do much else except dunk and dribble to the hoop. It also seemed to be the most important times that the turnovers came. That being said, Garza does need to be a better passer out of the post when need be. Cook's rebounding will definitely be missed but I don't think it's irreplaceable, Pemsl had 4 rebounds, granted in 1 game but did average nearly 5 rebounds a game, Kriener grabbed 3 bounds a game, and Nunge in his FR season grabbed close to 3 rebounds per game. Garza's FR season he also only trailed Cook by .4 rebounds per game. As you stated you don't think Iowa will be better without Cook, I just think they will be different and have the potential to maybe go further because the parts might fit better.
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Pemsl has only made one jump shot that I can remember. At least Cook made a few. Pemsl didnt even shoot them.
 
tmess1989 said:
Pemsl has only made one jump shot that I can remember. At least Cook made a few. Pemsl didnt even shoot them.
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Pemsl did have it in his high school game. He just got typecast into working around the basket in college and let his skills diminish. He's supposedly spent the past year getting it back though. He looks pretty comfortable with his shot in this (now 5 year old) video.

 
lightning1 said:
No. We won't be. People don't think of TC as a good defender but rebounding is a defensive stat, for the most part. Whoever takes TC's place is going to have to average at least 5 rebounds with zero turnovers, in order to offset Cook's 7.6 rebounds and 2.8 turnovers. Nobody seems to want to talk about the 2.4 assists per game that TC averaged. People love to rip TC for his turnovers but his assist to turnover ratio (2.4/2.8) is identical to Garza's (.9/1.3). Nobody rips Garza. Cook averages more PPG, RPG and has the identical assist/turnover ratio as Garza and Cook is a much better defender. Yet posters here rip Cook and love Garza. I wonder why that is?
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Timing, consistency and performance to potential.
 
N8theGr8 said:
Tariq Owens falls more into the Olaseni category IMO, superior athleticism, hustle player, and great shot blocker. Patrick could be some of that for us...but probably more like his sophomore or junior year and also likely won't have as many blocked shots. He had a 35 inch vertical his junior summer but only has a 6'6 wingspan being 6'7 without shoes. Olaseni has a 7'3.5 wingspan and Owens has a 7'4 wingspan by comparison. That's a huge difference when it comes to interrupting passing lanes and coming out of nowhere to unexpectedly challenge shots. That said, Patrick is a much better shooter and has a much higher basketball IQ.
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Patrick's shorter wingspan probably has more to do with a narrow chest than having short arms. I remember Uthoff's wingspan was short compared to the length of his arms.
 
PCHawk said:
Patrick's shorter wingspan probably has more to do with a narrow chest than having short arms. I remember Uthoff's wingspan was short compared to the length of his arms.
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According to his draft profile, Uthoff was 6'8.5 and had a 6'11.5 wingspan. He also has a narrow chest and super long arms, but Uthoff is a freak. Patrick may be narrow chested, but I think he's likely more toward average or below average than Uthoff with his arms.
 
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N8theGr8 said:
According to his draft profile, Uthoff was 6'8.5 and had a 6'11.5 wingspan. He also has a narrow chest and super long arms, but Uthoff is a freak. Patrick may be narrow chested, but I think he's likely more toward average or below average than Uthoff with his arms.
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I remember Uthoff's wingspan not being the longest on the team and being really surprised by it because he looked like he had really long arms. Then someone mentioned his narrow chest and it made sense. Looking at Patrick's long arms, it surprised me that he doesn't have a long wingspan at first. Then I remembered Uthoff and it made sense. If I had to guess, Patrick's standing reach is probably at least average for a guy his height.
 
N8theGr8 said:
Pemsl did have it in his high school game. He just got typecast into working around the basket in college and let his skills diminish. He's supposedly spent the past year getting it back though. He looks pretty comfortable with his shot in this (now 5 year old) video.

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He does look confident shooting the midrange shot in that highlight video. Hopefully he has gotten that confidence back. Being a threat to make even a mid range shot as a big makes it harder on the defense if you can pull that big away from the basket.
 
PCHawk said:
I remember Uthoff's wingspan not being the longest on the team and being really surprised by it because he looked like he had really long arms. Then someone mentioned his narrow chest and it made sense. Looking at Patrick's long arms, it surprised me that he doesn't have a long wingspan at first. Then I remembered Uthoff and it made sense. If I had to guess, Patrick's standing reach is probably at least average for a guy his height.
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N8theGr8 said:
According to his draft profile, Uthoff was 6'8.5 and had a 6'11.5 wingspan. He also has a narrow chest and super long arms, but Uthoff is a freak. Patrick may be narrow chested, but I think he's likely more toward average or below average than Uthoff with his arms.
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Here is a link to a prior HN thread where Patrick measurables were tested at a USA basketball event.

As noted his wingspan is a little shorter but his standing reach is very good. At the NBA combine they talk about standing reach being one of the most important measurements. I don’t think he’s similar to Owens or Olaseni, but if he is playing the 3 spot he has great size and should be able to alter some shots.

https://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum...eights-weights-from-usa-basketball-u18.83399/
 
NorthKCHawk said:
My minimum expectations is that Patrick steps in next season and fills in the role that Baer had. One would hope that a Top 75 national kid with freakish skills could fill the role of a former walk-on, but we all know how special Baer was beyond just his stats. That said, I think Patrick has all the skills and then some, and I am actually hoping his role is bigger than Baer's. We will have a lot of strong, upper class men leadership next year, so Patrick should just focus on getting Baer's boards, shots, steals and D.
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We'll be lucky if Patrick could do as much as Nick did his redshirt freshman year. I cant see him being ready to contribute an overall floor game like Baer has the last 2 yrs right away. Even for a highly thought of recruit as he is. Hes rated high for what he will be in 3 yrs not next. Hes just way too skinny now and I dont think he will play a ton of mins right away
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Here is a link to a prior HN thread where Patrick measurables were tested at a USA basketball event.

As noted his wingspan is a little shorter but his standing reach is very good. At the NBA combine they talk about standing reach being one of the most important measurements. I don’t think he’s similar to Owens or Olaseni, but if he is playing the 3 spot he has great size and should be able to alter some shots.

https://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum...eights-weights-from-usa-basketball-u18.83399/
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I’m hoping he helps us with basketball IQ and defense immediately...not aware of any measurement for these.
 
trj said:
If he was the guy that we saw in the 2nd half against Tennessee where the team feeds off that energy...... Iowa is definitely better with him. Nunge/Pemsl won't be able to give you that, at least not right away.
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Problem is, TC isn't the guy we saw in the second half against Tennessee, except in the second half against Tennessee.
 
redbirds1 said:
Problem is, TC isn't the guy we saw in the second half against Tennessee, except in the second half against Tennessee.
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No, he was more of that guy than you think. You are a Cyclone fan, so you are only getting a small sample size. You are only checking out maybe 10-12 games, which I totally get when you are not invested.
 
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