Is Iowa Better Without Tyler Cook?
- Thread starter WinOneThisCentury
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1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
I shoulda just said that.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
Put me down as a big "NO". Iowa will struggle early to find players to replace Cook's production. They don't have anyone on the roster now who is as athletic.
All those talking about how Garza is better forget that when Cook got the ball on the block he was worthy of a double team. Garza was not, Kreiner was not. That double team helped other players - gave a bit more clearance for our three point shooters and got Garza or Kreiner prime rebounding position on Cook's misses. Also, by being worthy of a double team he was fouled more leading to more free throws which helped other players get to the line as Cook was the only player who was fouled a lot.
Does Cook have holes in his game? Sure. Does he sometimes disappear on the court? Yeah. If he didn't have holes in his game or didn't disappear, with his athleticism do you think he'd still be at Iowa? Heck no. I yelled a lot at the TV screen "Get it to a guard!!!" That doesn't mean I don't like his game, just a few of his decisions on the court.
All that being said, I'm sorry to see him go and wish him the best of luck.
All those talking about how Garza is better forget that when Cook got the ball on the block he was worthy of a double team. Garza was not, Kreiner was not. That double team helped other players - gave a bit more clearance for our three point shooters and got Garza or Kreiner prime rebounding position on Cook's misses. Also, by being worthy of a double team he was fouled more leading to more free throws which helped other players get to the line as Cook was the only player who was fouled a lot.
Does Cook have holes in his game? Sure. Does he sometimes disappear on the court? Yeah. If he didn't have holes in his game or didn't disappear, with his athleticism do you think he'd still be at Iowa? Heck no. I yelled a lot at the TV screen "Get it to a guard!!!" That doesn't mean I don't like his game, just a few of his decisions on the court.
All that being said, I'm sorry to see him go and wish him the best of luck.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
I'm not particularly looking for any debate. I'm simply pointing out some facts for some unnamed posters that like to rip on TC but ignore the facts about other players. I think advanced stats have a place but they are incomplete, at best. As I already stated. There is no advanced stat to describe the amount of defensive pressure Cook draws vs Garza, when they are on the floor at the same time. If there is, I'd like to see it.
The argument isn't what combination of players can replace Cook, IMO. It's what combination can replace Cook and Baer. That's 21 PPG and 12 RPG. That kind of production is going to be a tall order for the players we currently have on the roster. Especially when you factor in Baer's 3 pt shooting and garbage man attributes. We'll all have to wait and see who does or doesn't step up. Whoever it is, they'll get the benefit of less defensive attention than Garza, Bohannon and Weiskamp. Those 3 will bare that responsibility next season. (Bohannon saw his share of that this season too)
SteveGarvey1
Well-Known Member
Is he for sure leaving, 100%? Dochterman sent out that tweet that he gone no matter what but then Leistikow sent one out two hours later that contradicted that he gone for sure. I so confused.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
I would love to have Tyler back. But he’s gone. So we will be different. No one can say for sure if we will be better, worse or the same...just different.
The only thing I know for sure is other guys (to be determined) will get more minutes. Again...it remains to be seen if that’s a good thing. The only known positive IMO is a lot of guys are likely going to work real hard to get Tyler’s minutes.
The only thing I know for sure is other guys (to be determined) will get more minutes. Again...it remains to be seen if that’s a good thing. The only known positive IMO is a lot of guys are likely going to work real hard to get Tyler’s minutes.
I know we did this last spring after I posed the same question, but I am here to take a different stance. I agree with an above poster that I don't think Iowa will be a better or worse team without Cook (if the rumors are true), but they will be a different team. I would argue Nunge is a better partner to Garza than Cook is because he provides more spacing in the offense with his shooting. Pemsl can make the 15 ft jumper, as Cook has not shown he can do like I thought he would this year. Nunge is better shot blocker than Cook, not more athletic than Cook, that can't be made up by anyone on the roster. But Nunge was the leading shot blocker last year as a FR. I do agree with you that Cook's turnovers are overblown by most, but I also understand because he doesn't do much else except dunk and dribble to the hoop. It also seemed to be the most important times that the turnovers came. That being said, Garza does need to be a better passer out of the post when need be. Cook's rebounding will definitely be missed but I don't think it's irreplaceable, Pemsl had 4 rebounds, granted in 1 game but did average nearly 5 rebounds a game, Kriener grabbed 3 bounds a game, and Nunge in his FR season grabbed close to 3 rebounds per game. Garza's FR season he also only trailed Cook by .4 rebounds per game. As you stated you don't think Iowa will be better without Cook, I just think they will be different and have the potential to maybe go further because the parts might fit better.
Deaces take on him is interesting. He seemed to feel that if Cook would have been asked to have a more Pemsl type of role he could have been more effective/efficient.
Possibly. Assuming he bought into that and didn't demand as many touches as he did physically he could have had 10 plus boards a game 10 pts or so no sweat. But defensively he kinda was who he was and I'm not sure his mentality realistically could have made a huge difference on that side.
Possibly. Assuming he bought into that and didn't demand as many touches as he did physically he could have had 10 plus boards a game 10 pts or so no sweat. But defensively he kinda was who he was and I'm not sure his mentality realistically could have made a huge difference on that side.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
In a pick up game? Of course I'm taking Tyler Cook! A pickup game is played way differently than a college basketball game. I want the guy who can finish at the rim, neither Pemsl or Kriener can guard him.
Iowa is better if Cook would have came back but I think they will be fine without him. The games Cook was missing it seemed like they played better as a TEAM, when Cook was on the floor he was the focal point.
Iowa is better if Cook would have came back but I think they will be fine without him. The games Cook was missing it seemed like they played better as a TEAM, when Cook was on the floor he was the focal point.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Look at Michigan State for an example. They lost Bridges and Jackson to the lottery then they lose Langford to injury.
Their team was significantly less talented this year than last years version, only thing is they ended up being a better team and going to the final four.
The pieces seemed to work better this year. McQuaid and Goins (former walk on) were guys who liked to play defense but didn’t demand the basketball but both could space the floor and shoot it. This allowed the ball to spend more time in Cassius Winston’s hand where he flourished.
So it’s possible while Cook was likely our most talented player, the pieces might fit better next year.
Their team was significantly less talented this year than last years version, only thing is they ended up being a better team and going to the final four.
The pieces seemed to work better this year. McQuaid and Goins (former walk on) were guys who liked to play defense but didn’t demand the basketball but both could space the floor and shoot it. This allowed the ball to spend more time in Cassius Winston’s hand where he flourished.
So it’s possible while Cook was likely our most talented player, the pieces might fit better next year.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
MSU is scary next year with Winston, Langford and the young guys that came on late.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
I'll say 2 things about this.
1) Fran has always played his PFs away from the basket. So, I'm not sure we can put that on TC. And Garza has taken the role that Pemsl had in 2016-17. Which goes back to Fran preferring to play more of a stretch 4 than having 2 bigs under the basket. In order for TC to take the role that Pemsl had, Garza has to play a stretch 4 or a PF. That might be the worst idea I've ever heard. So, I don't think Deace spent too much time thinking this through because this roster doesn't fit his version of TC playing Center.
2) If we had anyone else on the roster that could beat a player off the dribble and get to the rim, maybe TC wouldn't have had to fill that role. He didn't have any problem letting Jok have that role in 2016-17. And that's on Fran and his roster management, once again. I think a lot of the issues people have with TC's game is more a problem of Fran McCaffery and the roster he has recruited. I say that because this board had this same conversation when Pete Jok graduated. Here we are again and the only constant is Fran McCaffery.
D
DDThompson
Guest
1) Iowa is going to be a different team without him.
2) The “better” or not will be proven on the court so I’m not too concerned about answering the question “yay” or “nay”
3) I loved that TC is a Hawk. I hope he does well in life; seems to be a good guy.
4) I’m going to miss a lot — his thunder dunks and brawling rebounds; his glare down; his smile.
5) I’m not going to miss the missed thunder dunks, the matador defense, the soft-stone hands, and the no mid-range plus shooting game.
2) The “better” or not will be proven on the court so I’m not too concerned about answering the question “yay” or “nay”
3) I loved that TC is a Hawk. I hope he does well in life; seems to be a good guy.
4) I’m going to miss a lot — his thunder dunks and brawling rebounds; his glare down; his smile.
5) I’m not going to miss the missed thunder dunks, the matador defense, the soft-stone hands, and the no mid-range plus shooting game.
Fortunately we have two guys who previously combined to average 12 points and 8 boards in 25 minutes total. Assuming that Nunge and Pemsl have improved and scaling up their minutes, I don't think it's a stretch to think they'll cover it. The bigger question to me is if Patrick will be able to replace some of Baer's value as a shooter/defender. No question the loss of Cook and Baer will be felt. Big shoes to fill.
Being the coaches son he should know intellectually what is expected from him. I'm not sure about his strength.
Agreed. Knowing the things that are expected of you and being capable of doing them are very different things. I hope he's able to keep improving his shot. Baer was money when the chips were down this year. I'm holding out hope that between Patrick and CJ Fredrick, we find another clutch shooter.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
Yep, losing Baer really hurts. Having a player like that come off the bench is extremely valuable and won't be easy to fill. Many underestimate the value he brought to the team.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
My minimum expectations is that Patrick steps in next season and fills in the role that Baer had. One would hope that a Top 75 national kid with freakish skills could fill the role of a former walk-on, but we all know how special Baer was beyond just his stats. That said, I think Patrick has all the skills and then some, and I am actually hoping his role is bigger than Baer's. We will have a lot of strong, upper class men leadership next year, so Patrick should just focus on getting Baer's boards, shots, steals and D.
I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect Patrick to fill the role Baer did immediately. He'll get there eventually, but Bear came in at 6'7 200 and finished at 6'7 218. Patrick lacks the muscle needed to immediately impact the game on defense/rebounding the way Baer did his redshirt freshman season. I hope he comes in at 190-195, but there's a chance he'll be well under that. In which case, he'll mitigate the loss Baer and may even be a net positive on offense, but there will be a noticeable step down in defensive play and rebounding when he's on the court.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
I would love to have Owens of Texas Tech. He’s listed at 6’10” and 205.
