Is Fran And Iowa Basketball At A Tipping Point?

[DJL]

I also think Fran should try changing his approach a little this year. This team doesn't seem to respond to his screaming as much. I don't know, maybe it would do nothing, but if I'm Fran, I'm looking for different ways to get my team to respond.
Also, for the the 100th time in this thread, use timeouts better, shorten the rotation, and get a point guard next year

 

[PCHawk]

I also think Fran should try changing his approach a little this year. This team doesn't seem to respond to his screaming as much. I don't know, maybe it would do nothing, but if I'm Fran, I'm looking for different ways to get my team to respond.
Also, for the the 100th time in this thread, use timeouts better, shorten the rotation, and get a point guard next year

In the last Hawkeye Report podcast, Gesell talked about how Fran knows what to do with different players and knows when it's time to not yell. Listening to him actually made me think about how dumb everyone (but me) sounds on here.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

In the last Hawkeye Report podcast, Gesell talked about how Fran knows what to do with different players and knows when it's time to not yell. Listening to him actually made me think about how dumb everyone (but me) sounds on here.

Why is everyone else so weird?

If everyone else thought like I did, it would make my life a hell of a lot easier.

Two things I've always stated.

 

[DJL]

In the last Hawkeye Report podcast, Gesell talked about how Fran knows what to do with different players and knows when it's time to not yell. Listening to him actually made me think about how dumb everyone (but me) sounds on here.

Maybe in practice, but the last game I was at, I watched the huddle very closely at every timeout. Most the time he was screaming at the refs, or just not in the huddle at all. I'm jealous when I see other coaches in the huddle drawing stuff up while everyone pays attention to him. Just an observation. Like I said, I don't know if it would help or not. But go ahead and call everyone names if it makes you feel cool.

 

[BryceC]

I'm with Schwartz on here where I don't count the play in game as a tournament appearance and think you have to win that game to play you way into the tournament. That is just my opinion.

I mean you can have a wrong opinion. You're entitled to that.

 

[HuckFinn]

After 2 years of trying to rebuild the Alford/Lick mess, here is what Fran has done from the 12-13 season through the 16-17 season:

All games:

108-64, or nearly 2/3 (63%) of the games won. He has average 21.6 wins per year.

He is 52-38 in the Big Ten, or about 58%.

He finished 6th in the BT with 9-9 records the first 2 of my 5 year data.
He finished tied for 3rd in the BT with 12-6 records in the next 2 of my 5 year data.
He tied for 5th last year with a 10-8 record.

During this time period, the BT was arguably the best basketball conference in the country, top to bottom.

Of course, we will see what the final record shows in Fran's 8th year. I doubt that anyone would argue, regardless of that record, that Fran won't be around in 18-19 with a solid bunch of returning players and an uptick in the recruiting that most of us agree on.

One digression from the above straight forward stats: Generally speaking, the same group of posters wants us to fire, at last count, between football and basketball, The President of the University of Iowa, the Athletic Director, The Head Football Coach (and in effect his entire staff), The Head Basketball Coach (and in effect his entire staff). A few have also called for Brands to be shown the door, along with, I expect, his assistants.
If these posters would get their collective wishes, would they truly enjoy the next God knows how many years of rebuilding? Good luck with that.

 

[Stanzi]

Lick's conference records were 6-12, 5-13, and 4-14. That was also in a less talented conference than we've had the past several seasons. This season has been disappointing, but I don't see them winning less than 6 conference games. This year's team would still easily beat any of the Lickliter teams. Those Lick teams were completely devoid of talent. We have talent on this roster, it just isn't being used effectively, and/or not performing like it should.

Looking at our losses I would group them into three categories:

Really bad (wtf) losses: Louisiana, South Dakota State
Bad (should have won) losses: Penn State
Not surprising (at least somewhat expected) losses: @ Iowa State, @ Virginia Tech, @ Indiana

I do think this team has the capability of being decent and making the NIT. Their biggest problem isn't a lack of talent, it's a lack of fundamentals (poor defense, bad free throw shooting, way too many turnovers). Those things can be cleaned up and improved to a certain degree. I've absolutely been as disappointed as most everyone else, but I haven't completely given up hope. I know what this team CAN do. It's just a matter of will they.

 

[DJL]

After 2 years of trying to rebuild the Alford/Lick mess, here is what Fran has done from the 12-13 season through the 16-17 season:

All games:

108-64, or nearly 2/3 (63%) of the games won. He has average 21.6 wins per year.

He is 52-38 in the Big Ten, or about 58%.

He finished 6th in the BT with 9-9 records the first 2 of my 5 year data.
He finished tied for 3rd in the BT with 12-6 records in the next 2 of my 5 year data.
He tied for 5th last year with a 10-8 record.

During this time period, the BT was arguably the best basketball conference in the country, top to bottom.

Of course, we will see what the final record shows in Fran's 8th year. I doubt that anyone would argue, regardless of that record, that Fran won't be around in 18-19 with a solid bunch of returning players and an uptick in the recruiting that most of us agree on.

One digression from the above straight forward stats: Generally speaking, the same group of posters wants us to fire, at last count, between football and basketball, The President of the University of Iowa, the Athletic Director, The Head Football Coach (and in effect his entire staff), The Head Basketball Coach (and in effect his entire staff). A few have also called for Brands to be shown the door, along with, I expect, his assistants.
If these posters would get their collective wishes, would they truly enjoy the next God knows how many years of rebuilding? Good luck with that.

Again I'm not saying fire Fran. And I have said multiple times, I appreciate what he has done at Iowa. BUT, I think he has something to prove by the end of next year. He had a great group of kids that helped him succeed. Some actually could made the argument that he underachieved with the group he had. Here are some of the guys that helped Fran get Iowa back to respectability:
Marble- Legacy recruit
White- Fran deserves a lot of credit for this one
Gesell- Iowa Fan
Woodbury- Iowa Fan
Uthoff- Cedar Rapids- think he was an Iowa Fan

Fran did get some other pieces that helped, but he also benefited from some big time in state talent and many were disappointed with the end of season and tournament woes his teams have had.

 

[PCHawk]

Maybe in practice, but the last game I was at, I watched the huddle very closely at every timeout. Most the time he was screaming at the refs, or just not in the huddle at all. I'm jealous when I see other coaches in the huddle drawing stuff up while everyone pays attention to him. Just an observation. Like I said, I don't know if it would help or not. But go ahead and call everyone names if it makes you feel cool.

I think he's more of a players coach than a coaches coach. I think he will recruit better than your average Iowa coach because of that, but maybe have some shortcomings on game day because of it.

If you can find a guy who's both, you're in business. As long as you can keep him in Iowa.

 

[DJL]

I think he's more of a players coach than a coaches coach. I think he will recruit better than your average Iowa coach because of that, but maybe have some shortcomings on game day because of it.

If you can find a guy who's both, you're in business. As long as you can keep him in Iowa.

I think if we could combine George Raveling, Tom Davis, and Fran we would be amazing.

 

[PCHawk]

Again I'm not saying fire Fran. And I have said multiple times, I appreciate what he has done at Iowa. BUT, I think he has something to prove by the end of next year. He had a great group of kids that helped him succeed. Some actually could made the argument that he underachieved with the group he had. Here are some of the guys that helped Fran get Iowa back to respectability:
Marble- Legacy recruit
White- Fran deserves a lot of credit for this one
Gesell- Iowa Fan
Woodbury- Iowa Fan
Uthoff- Cedar Rapids- think he was an Iowa Fan

Fran did get some other pieces that helped, but he also benefited from some big time in state talent and many were disappointed with the end of season and tournament woes his teams have had.

Neither Woody or Gesell would have come to Iowa with just and average coach. Uthoff probably wouldn't have come back either. He has benefited from good in state talent. But that in state talent doesn't stay in state much before him.

If Wiescamp comes in and becomes the national player of the year and leads us to 2 final 4s, I'm not going to jump up and down and scream I was right about Fran all along. I'll be smart enough to realize Fran got lucky that kid grew up a hawk fan. In some posters eyes, I'll be making "excuses" for why Fran isn't the greatest coach ever.

 

[PCHawk]

I think if we could combine George Raveling, Tom Davis, and Fran we would be amazing.

Or horrendous. Depends on how you combine them.

 

[BryceC]

RE the recruiting misses... Fran basically has two classes back to back that are black holes. That's bad.

 

[DJL]

Neither Woody or Gesell would have come to Iowa with just and average coach. Uthoff probably wouldn't have come back either. He has benefited from good in state talent. But that in state talent doesn't stay in state much before him.

If Wiescamp comes in and becomes the national player of the year and leads us to 2 final 4s, I'm not going to jump up and down and scream I was right about Fran all along. I'll be smart enough to realize Fran got lucky that kid grew up a hawk fan. In some posters eyes, I'll be making "excuses" for why Fran isn't the greatest coach ever.

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. I understand why Fran is questioned. I still think he has done impressive things here, but IF we continue to tank this year, and next year is rough, then we have a serious issue. We just need to wait and see what happens. I need to tell myself that after we look like dog crap. Sometimes passionate fans (I'm talking about me) go a little too far.

 

[uihawk82]

I expected at least 2 final fours and at least a B1G championship by now ...if he can't get that done, then bring in someone who can. On to the next.

Big Championships, NCAA wins and higher seedings, a Final Four:

Ralph Miller did it
Lute did it
Mr. Davis very close and had some very good NCAA teams
Raveling no
Alford a couple of Big 10 Tourney championships iirc but not a good NCAA coach, finished high in regular season only once or twice

Lick we know didnt
Jury way out on Fran, Looking at Fran's past teams if he had a really 4* penetrating decent shooting point guard he may have 2 Big regular season titles and one or two Big tourney titles, solid NCAA bids and some deep NCAA runs

But Fran hasnt had the point guards which control the college game.

 

[DJL]

Big Championships, NCAA wins and higher seedings, a Final Four:

Ralph Miller did it
Lute did it
Mr. Davis very close and had some very good NCAA teams
Raveling no
Alford a couple of Big 10 Tourney championships iirc but not a good NCAA coach, finished high in regular season only once or twice

Lick we know didnt
Jury way out on Fran, Looking at Fran's past teams if he had a really 4* penetrating decent shooting point guard he may have 2 Big regular season titles and one or two Big tourney titles, solid NCAA bids and some deep NCAA runs

But Fran hasnt had the point guards which control the college game.

I think this has been the most consistent gripe with Fran. We know college basketball is a guard's game and he just hasn't been able to land enough of them.

 

[PCHawk]

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. I understand why Fran is questioned. I still think he has done impressive things here, but IF we continue to tank this year, and next year is rough, then we have a serious issue. We just need to wait and see what happens. I need to tell myself that after we look like dog crap. Sometimes passionate fans (I'm talking about me) go a little too far.

IF we tank this year and next, it says a lot. He took recruits he got when the program was horrible and tuned us into a top 25-30 team three years in a row. These recruits are the kids Fran brought in when the program was back on it's feet. This year is understandable because most guys are freshmen and sophomores. Next year there is no excuse (baring lots of injuries).

If we suck next year, I won't even care about how he does the year after. He could make the Sweet 16 and I still wouldn't care. It would only be because he has a ridiculous amount of seniors and the best Iowa recruit in a long time from right down the road. Those two things are not sustainable. So if that's what it takes for Fran to be good, I don't want him. He HAS to do good next year in my eyes.

All that said, if Garza and Nunge are both top 3 players in 2 years, that would kill my huge senior class argument and I would probably be back on the Fran train.

 

[PCHawk]

I think this has been the most consistent gripe with Fran. We know college basketball is a guard's game and he just hasn't been able to land enough of them.

Most of his really good players have been from in state and there hasn't been great in state guards lately. If Carton comes to Iowa and becomes Dean Oliver, does that cure Fran's recruiting woes at guard? Or did he just get lucky there was finally a good player in state that was a guard?

 

[Hawk5656]

IF we tank this year and next, it says a lot. He took recruits he got when the program was horrible and tuned us into a top 25-30 team three years in a row. These recruits are the kids Fran brought in when the program was back on it's feet. This year is understandable because most guys are freshmen and sophomores. Next year there is no excuse (baring lots of injuries).

If we suck next year, I won't even care about how he does the year after. He could make the Sweet 16 and I still wouldn't care. It would only be because he has a ridiculous amount of seniors and the best Iowa recruit in a long time from right down the road. Those two things are not sustainable. So if that's what it takes for Fran to be good, I don't want him. He HAS to do good next year in my eyes.

All that said, if Garza and Nunge are both top 3 players in 2 years, that would kill my huge senior class argument and I would probably be back on the Fran train.

You're not a top 30 team when you have to play in Dayton for the play in game.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Neither Woody or Gesell would have come to Iowa with just and average coach. Uthoff probably wouldn't have come back either. He has benefited from good in state talent. But that in state talent doesn't stay in state much before him.

If Wiescamp comes in and becomes the national player of the year and leads us to 2 final 4s, I'm not going to jump up and down and scream I was right about Fran all along. I'll be smart enough to realize Fran got lucky that kid grew up a hawk fan. In some posters eyes, I'll be making "excuses" for why Fran isn't the greatest coach ever.

I think the style of play Fran wanted to run is what sold Uthoff, and he could play & be closer to home. He wouldn't have come back if Lickliter stayed as coach. Pretty sure of that.