MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
You just described Iowa. I think Iowa is typically in the mid 30's in recruiting and are all about developing players.
Iowa State has been decimated
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It’s TT and BYU and everybody else. Both of them have mega donors. They are the only ones that will be able to keep their coaches and players.
I agree. It certainly doesn't help that the lone representative in the playoffs, Texas Tech, got smoked by Oregon. Not a good look for the league and by extension, all of their teams.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
Tech is an SEC team stuck in a Big 12 body. The majority of the teams left in the Little 12 and ACC and certainly the new Pac 12, simply cannot keep up with the arms race. Hell, Iowa can barely stay competitive in this new environment.
I do not see much more that the NCAA or other managing body can do that the House Settlement has not already done to address competitive balance. Each team now has a functional salary cap. The lesser teams in the three Power 5 conferences not named SEC and Big 10, cannot even afford to pay the agreed amount to their players without going into debt. The dark money from boosters has to go through an approval process, but that is not hard to paper and push through. That spending has few limits with the blue bloods.
It really is time for the two major conferences to break off, fold in the remaining schools who have the resources to compete at this level, and proceed forward on a two-conference, NFL style format. The remaining teams can form up another level of college football right below the real power football schools. We are trying to make a system work that has the Iowa Cubs competing against the New York Yankees. We have a large number of AAA schools in the Power 5. We need to end the farce.
I do not see much more that the NCAA or other managing body can do that the House Settlement has not already done to address competitive balance. Each team now has a functional salary cap. The lesser teams in the three Power 5 conferences not named SEC and Big 10, cannot even afford to pay the agreed amount to their players without going into debt. The dark money from boosters has to go through an approval process, but that is not hard to paper and push through. That spending has few limits with the blue bloods.
It really is time for the two major conferences to break off, fold in the remaining schools who have the resources to compete at this level, and proceed forward on a two-conference, NFL style format. The remaining teams can form up another level of college football right below the real power football schools. We are trying to make a system work that has the Iowa Cubs competing against the New York Yankees. We have a large number of AAA schools in the Power 5. We need to end the farce.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
I think the Big10 is holding a bit on further expansion until they see what direction this is all heading. The playoffs, NIL, transfers, House, have all really upset the order of things and there are a lot of different directions things can head. I think there are two paths, one is remain with a functional 4-conference system with a 16 team playoff pulled from mostly that field and perhaps saving one charity spot for the rest of the college universe. Or go to a two conference, NFL style system.
I think when there is more certainty on a direction, then consolidation of money and power will continue for the two big boy conferences. Tech will certainly be an obvious target for the Big 10.
Fryowa
Administrator
They're getting around the salary cap by creating agencies for outside "endorsements." Basically those schools have staff that actively seek external endorsements for players which will not go against any NIL caps. Oregon was the first one to jump in that arena and made no attempt to keep it quiet...that's where Phil's subtle comments about Oregon being well-funded came from in his presser before the game. It's where you see Arch Manning, Carson Beck, et al appearing in Nike and Gatorade commercials, etc. Nike/Gatorade/Jersey Mike's/Progressive/whoever can afford the huge deals, but there's also nothing saying a donor can't pay some midsize company $2 million to endorse a QB or WR for say, $3 million.
I realize there is a smaller pool of total endorsement money to be had vs NIL as a total, but that money will be going to the elite star players which is what matters. This genie is out of the bottle.
I listened to a pretty good pod the other day about how most of the high-tier players aren't even physically going to any classes, they just register for bare minimum online classes to technically be enrolled. I had heard Mark Gronowski was the same deal, he was just doing grad school classes online and had never been on campus essentially.
And if you think about it...when was the last time since NIL became a thing that you heard of a player being academically ineligible? Used to hear about it several times a year somewhere. I haven't heard of one of those in years.
It's time to just spin them off into pro leagues and they can keep the college logos. If guys want to go to school and graduate more power to them and their tuition can be paid for by the team as a part of their salary. Do I wish things were different? Yep. Do I think there's any way it'll go back to what it was? Nope.
Time to treat it like what it really is.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
You and I have had this discussion before, and I remain of the view that if the Iowa Hawkeyes are made up of a bunch of middle 20s semi-pro athletes who are just below NFL level, I am out. Watching an inferior professional product is not what I am interested in. I am here to watch 20 year old kids compete for their school while bands, cheerleaders, and rabid fans cheer them on with fight songs and college revelry.
I acknowledge it may head that way. I sure hope it does not.
90% of these kids need that education and degree as they are not going to make it in the NFL. So, even if there is a work-around for grad students or guys like Manning who have no intention of being a real student, I don't think the schools and conferences should just abandon the traditional student athlete model altogether. The Big Ten especially, given its focus on being elite research and educational institutions, cannot just cede the ground occupied by 20 year old kids who could benefit from a degree, to 30 year old plumbers who are too good of football players to plumb, but not good enough to make the NFL. Nope. Not me. I would be out.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
I think this is the reason why we don't have anything to worry about. I get probably a bulk of the players that play D1 football have NFL aspirations but at the end of the day 90% of them will have to rely on their degree at the next level.
11% of P5 players get drafted into the NFL but out of those players only 30% make an active roster.
kameltoez102
Well-Known Member
Was listening to a Pay McAfee podcast a year or two ago so the numbers have changed and I can't remember the exact figures but at the time it was like 11,000 players had played in the NFL at that time and only just over a 1000 had played more than 8 years.
What I thought was interesting at the time, growing up in small town Iowa, was the 4 guys that went to the league from Aplington-Parkersburg all played 8 or more years I believe which is pretty crazy.
What is even more nuts is the number of guys that were super high recruits that either burn out or play very little when compared to the 2-3 star recruits.
Fryowa
Administrator
I don't disagree at all. I would also add that we are watching an inferior professional product. That's literally what it is. Out of the starting 22 players on each team a VERY small minority are there to go to college. They are there with the intent of 1) making money, and 2) playing professionally and giving it their best shot. College football has very little if anything to do with college anymore. There are still bands, cheerleaders, and rabid fans, but with NIL and limitless free agency there's no traditional connection to fighting for their school anymore. It's just a façade, charade, whatever you want to call it that we fans project on it to make it look like it's still ra ra ra, fight fight fight, go college!!! like in the old days. We're making our own interpretive puppet show out of it...which isn't reality.
A lot for me personally is going to depend on what happens after Kirk is gone. If he leaves and they completely change up the culture etc of the past 45 years I'm out as well. I have no interest in watching Iowa football that doesn't look like Iowa football has for my entire life. 95% of my fandom is an appreciation for the culture JHF implemented and Ferentz mostly continued. I'm not bashful that much of my fandom is nostalgia from memories made with my dad and now my son. If that veers off course I'll be done and won't waste my time being upset about it. I will find other things to do and be fine...nothing lasts forever.
HawkPowerlifter
Well-Known Member
#BuiltDifferent
You got 2-3 star kids who have had to bust their butt and trust a process. Nothing was given and it was earned. Those players are hungry and appreciate the opportunities they are given. I think that's part of the equation.
When is the last time you heard a player was academically ineligible? How things have gone crazy
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
I get your point, but in watching a lot of bowls this year, there are still a lot of kids who the uniform and the school still mean something. I think there are a lot of kids, especially from Iowa, that are there to make money, but also to wear the I. Once you move away from kids actually going to the University, what is the point of even calling them the Iowa Hawkeyes?
I think there would be a bit of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Personally if Iowa State was completely pushed down a level I’d advocate they just drop football and do something like file for bankruptcy to get out of the debt associated with the program, and I’d just probably not watch CFB at all.
I don’t think it’s a good thing that we are locking schools out of the playoff. I don’t think it’s a good thing there is no PAC conference. I understand why we are where we are but I still think it’s not good.
Fryowa
Administrator
I loved having Mark Gronowski and this is no knock against him whatsoever, but was he really a Hawkeye if he never physically went to Iowa and was just doing a couple grad school classes online? Iowa already has 8 offers and 4 committals from the portal, this free agency thing is only going to grow every year. I think it's already reached the point of being semi-farcical thinking that this is a "be true to your school" operation anymore.
Our entire basketball team except one player is made up of guys from other schools and lots of them only have this year to play yet. I get that it's a coaching change making it so severe but do we count Stirtz as a true Hawkeye guy? Wrestling is even more extreme in regard to transfers and tons of people I know have given up their season tickets that have been in the family for a couple generations because they can't follow athletes from freshman to senior years anymore. I'm considering doing the same, I bought my tickets again this year but haven't been to a dual in person since the year before last. It doesn't interest me seeing 7-8 different wrestlers every year and knowing that's probably the only time I'll see them compete.
As we go along it's not unrealistic to think that most of Iowa's best athletes are going to be free agent signings and it's only going to grow in that regard in the future, maybe it's time to break off revenue generating sports into professional sports so they can organize some of the chaos. Maybe these pro sports teams can be owned and operated by universities, still allow athletes to attend college under scholarship if they want, and have the benefit of contracts, limited free agency, and some stability. All while still wearing the uniform and representing the Hawkeyes.
I also realize that's not going to happen so what we're stuck with is what's happening now which is a pretty shitty product. As it is right now revenue sports look absolutely nothing like they did 50 or even 10 years ago. It's already become a fake imitation product, why not try to at least improve it somehow?
Fryowa
Administrator
The problem isn't so much the system, it's ISU refusing to adapt to it. I've seen you post here that all the accusations about Pollard and how he ran the department are bunk, but that's just not true. It's telling that a program completely collapses with the exiting of one single employee. Was ISU really a strong athletic department, or did it just find lightning in a bottle once in 150 years with a good coach who was the lynch pin of the entire thing? You really think you know more about the inner workings of the ISU program than Jeremy Lind? A guy who has nothing to gain or lose by telling it how it is?
In my experience there is a faction of ISU fans who think Pollard is Jesus (I think you fall in this camp) and worships him like a cult leader because of the money he's generated, but that doesn't make a strong program or a good AD. We had an AD here too for a long time who was great at raising money but absolutely terrible as an athletic director. If Pollard was that good he would've been able to maintain those relationships with the people who mattered and built on the lightning in a bottle that was Matt Campbell and TJO (who is also not gonna be long for the ISU world).
Yes, money is a big factor for a school like ISU, but the bigger issue is mismanagement. You can't sit there and say ISU is just a victim of a system you don't like because they couldn't manage and navigate said system. ISU was a house of cards.
Yeah that's the part that I think is universally tough to swallow for us older fans. Growing up seeing generations of teams and players that goes for the other sports too. Rosters being flipped over yr to yr and your star players that either pop up early on and leave or you bring them in for 1 yr and then leave is just not fun. You can't get invested in them.
A fun part of fandom for me has always been seeing us land a recruit and then follow their development. Be it they flash early and turn into a star or more gradually and then they have a monster senior yr. That's kinda what's always made a guy a Hawkeye to me be it hoops or football. While that kinda happens in football a little bit now it doesn't like it used to. And it certainly doesn't in hoops.
Fryowa
Administrator
Following recruiting now is pointless. Yeah the kids might actually come here and stay their whole careers, but 1) they can get poached at literally any time leading up, and 2) even if they come here and become a great player there's a high likelihood they'll likely get poached after a couple years.
Impossible to get excited about it and I went from reading lots about it to nothing unless I hear of a kid like Lutmer or Vander Zee who I know the family and am pretty confident won't ever leave.
The Aaron Graves stories are gonna be way fewer and far between they just are. The Cooper DeJeans are a once in a generation. Those two you mentioned are well on their ways.
But who's to say if Hecklinski flashes a pretty good first yr of starting next yr that another school won't come poach him away? All while being tampered with throughout the yr. We've had a new day 1 starting Qb like 4 yrs in a row or some shit right? Petras was the last guy to start 2 yrs in a row and he did 3 I think and that wasn't a good thing. I'll be curious once the dust settles what the overall turnover rate ends up being for us
