Iowa Program is bottoming out

[InGoodCo]

6 of TD’s 13 years he was bounced after the round of 32. Better than Fran? Yes. But how much better has been it the last 40+ years.?

Also, easier to win NCAA games when you don't lose your best players with eligibility every single season, the landscape is so different, it's very difficult to compare them. Roy Marble isn't playing his Sr. season at Iowa. How good would Tom be if that didn't happen. Imagine every great player that Tom had left before their Sr. years, how good would he have been? That is what has typically happened to Fran every single season for the last 7 years or so. If Fran could have coached the Murray brothers their Sr. seasons? If Weiskamp comes back. If Tyler Cook comes back. If Isiah Moss doesn't go grab a bag. If Tony Perkins was still in Iowa City.... you get the point. Tom got like 8 years out of Jess Settles.

 

[Fryowa]

Clark Street Arena would be quite nice

Chris Street Court at Iowa Fieldhouse.

Demolish this area and put up a 10,000 seat arena, with bars, restaurants, hotels, and parking. Build some new tennis courts, soccer fields, and a cross country course somewhere else. The U already owns the ground. The rectangle in the picture is the size of CHA currently.

It's right off 218, right off Melrose, and you could turn the whole area into prime development.

Wait...we'd need a whole bunch of NIL money first to get a team people would be pumped about watching in person...forgot about that...

 

[Fryowa]

Also, easier to win NCAA games when you don't lose your best players with eligibility every single season, the landscape is so different, it's very difficult to compare them. Roy Marble isn't playing his Sr. season at Iowa. How good would Tom be if that didn't happen. Imagine every great player that Tom had left before their Sr. years, how good would he have been? That is what has typically happened to Fran every single season for the last 7 years or so. If Fran could have coached the Murray brothers their Sr. seasons? If Weiskamp comes back. If Tyler Cook comes back. If Isiah Moss doesn't go grab a bag. If Tony Perkins was still in Iowa City.... you get the point. Tom got like 8 years out of Jess Settles.

This...

 

[trj]

Also, easier to win NCAA games when you don't lose your best players with eligibility every single season, the landscape is so different, it's very difficult to compare them. Roy Marble isn't playing his Sr. season at Iowa. How good would Tom be if that didn't happen. Imagine every great player that Tom had left before their Sr. years, how good would he have been? That is what has typically happened to Fran every single season for the last 7 years or so. If Fran could have coached the Murray brothers their Sr. seasons? If Weiskamp comes back. If Tyler Cook comes back. If Isiah Moss doesn't go grab a bag. If Tony Perkins was still in Iowa City.... you get the point. Tom got like 8 years out of Jess Settles.

Exactly.

I can’t do this circle jerk over TD without having some context.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

6 of TD’s 13 years he was bounced after the round of 32. Better than Fran? Yes. But how much better has it been in the last 40+ years?

The point I was making was pushing back on the posts that said Fran was clearly the better coach. And also the factually inaccurate post that said Davis only won 6 first round games at Iowa.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

Also, easier to win NCAA games when you don't lose your best players with eligibility every single season, the landscape is so different, it's very difficult to compare them. Roy Marble isn't playing his Sr. season at Iowa. How good would Tom be if that didn't happen. Imagine every great player that Tom had left before their Sr. years, how good would he have been? That is what has typically happened to Fran every single season for the last 7 years or so. If Fran could have coached the Murray brothers their Sr. seasons? If Weiskamp comes back. If Tyler Cook comes back. If Isiah Moss doesn't go grab a bag. If Tony Perkins was still in Iowa City.... you get the point. Tom got like 8 years out of Jess Settles.

This...

Exactly.

I can’t do this circle jerk over TD without having some context.

I think it's a fair point if we are comparing, but we have to factor in that the playing field is level either way.

Opposing teams kept their better players longer in Tom's era, and opposing teams all deal with good players leaving early now, so I'm not sure the point moves the needle.

 

[Fryowa]

I think it's a fair point if we are comparing, but we have to factor in that the playing field is level either way.

Opposing teams kept their better players longer in Tom's era, and opposing teams all deal with good players leaving early now, so I'm not sure the point moves the needle.

My whole point has been that if you insert Tom Davis in 2025 with equal (and competitive) NIL money Fran outperforms him, even if slightly. Fran is a better finder of talent and works harder at finding players than Davis did.

Can I prove any of it? No. But no one can disprove it either so it's strictly conjecture.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Look, whether its easier or harder to win today; or whether Davis would do worse than Fran if he were coaching today; or whether Fran would have done better than Davis in '87; or whether Fran just seems to be a better coach to your eye test; these are all distinctly subjective criterion than can only be debated, not proven. I understand a lot of you on here think Davis is overrated and Fran is a better coach. I understand your points, but I just think Fran is one deep tourney run short of matching up to Davis. In other words, I don't think that Fran has to match Davis' tourney success to exceed him, as most of the other factors favor Fran, but the total lack of any tournament success for Fran is just too glaring to ignore.

I have yet to see anyone counter the argument that the most material and objective comparison between these two men---NCAA tournament success---falls lopsidedly in favor of D O C T O R T O M. I will take facts and figures over biased opinions any day of the week when settling a debate.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

My whole point has been that if you insert Tom Davis in 2025 with equal (and competitive) NIL money Fran outperforms him, even if slightly. Fran is a better finder of talent and works harder at finding players than Davis did.

Can I prove any of it? No. But no one can disprove it either so it's strictly conjecture.

It also wasn't a level playing field in terms of who Davis could get into Iowa compared to other Big Ten schools. Davis had to deal with Hunter Rawlings and a challenging era at Iowa, which had stricter requirements than the teams Davis was competing against. Fran never had to lose players to being academically ineligible, something that torpedoed several seasons under Davis. Ray Thompson, Brian Garner, Kevin Smith, Russ Millard...those are the ones off the top of my head.

When was the last time players were academically ineligible in this day and age? It doesn't happen.

I know someone will say "that's on Davis for recruiting those guys." He couldn't really win though. He got criticized for not bringing in the right recruits for his system, ones that could compete with Illinois and Michigan and Indiana...but when he did, the university said Iowa had different standards than those other schools and eligibility became an issue. And don't forget the massive cheating further tipping the scales at places like Michigan, Illinois and Minnesota....

I'm starting to wonder how closely some of you followed Big Ten basketball in the late 80s to mid 90s. Playing by the rules at Iowa made it a much more difficult job than at many other Big Ten schools.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

...and again, my point isn't that one coach is vastly superior to the other, or that I am putting Davis on some kind of pedestal. But there also seems to be some kind of narrative that Davis was just dialing it in during a relatively easy period of Big Ten basketball. And I'll stress again that was THE GOLDEN ERA for Big Ten basketball, filled with legends and cheaters and fraud. And by all accounts, Davis played by the rules and had Iowa on a competitive level nearly every year.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

...and again, my point isn't that one coach is vastly superior to the other, or that I am putting Davis on some kind of pedestal. But there also seems to be some kind of narrative that Davis was just dialing it in during a relatively easy period of Big Ten basketball. And I'll stress again that was THE GOLDEN ERA for Big Ten basketball, filled with legends and cheaters and fraud. And by all accounts, Davis played by the rules and had Iowa on a competitive level nearly every year.

+1. Revisionist history.