Fryowa
Administrator
Recency bias big time with some of these people. And the same ones don’t seem to comprehend that the environment Fran is competing in is light years tougher than anything Lute or Favis had to deal with.
Iowa Program is bottoming out
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BigD
Well-Known Member
Just keep winning baby!!! I am cheering for them every game!!!
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
You keep saying its tougher now than for Mr. Davis and Lute, but why? Its different, for sure. NIL has changed everything. But, it has changed things for everyone equally. There isn't one set of rules for Iowa and one set for everyone else. To the contrary, there really aren't rules anymore.
Davis and Lute had to deal with totally dark money and that presented its own challenges. There has always been money in this sport, but again, my point is no matter the change in rules, culture and environment, all of these coaches competed with the same schools and on the same terms. So, why is it "tougher" for Fran to win?
I know you are going to respond that Iowa is way behind on the NIL front. From what I can tell that is true. But, doesn't Fran have to take some blame there? Its his program. I don't see him doing much NIL fundraising and he has always had a dicey relationship with the donor class. I don't see him making efforts to engage more with the rank and file fans or doing anything to get more butts into the arena. I understand those things are not his primary duties, but they are part of it. You have accused Davis of being lazy towards the end of his tenure on the recruiting front, and you aren't wrong, but can you honestly say that Fran is doing everything he can do to boost NIL and fan engagement?
Fryowa
Administrator
Money is the biggest thing and I disagree that it’s on Fran. He’s a smart enough guy to know that Iowa football is going to get the majority of it no matter how much there is because that’s where the big fan base is. It’d be trying to get blood from turnips.
I also still believe the environment is tougher now but not tougher to the same degree for everyone. Lute and Davis knew that once they had a recruit they had him. They could focus on making that team better and had some sense of stability. If they got an uncut gem like a Murray or Garza (which they never did…credit to Fran), they had him pretty much locked down and could build a team around him.
Nowadays if that happens they’re gone and all you did was make recruiting and evaluation easier for the next guy. Nowadays while it’s true that those free transfer, no-salary cap rules are the same for every coach, that’s only true in practice if the NIL money is there to support it. At Iowa it isn’t and I’d argue Fran can’t really do much to change that. Say he went out and somehow doubles Iowa’s basketball NIL salary budget to $3 million. It’s still at the bottom of the B1G.
So yeah, Fran has a much, much tougher environment to work with than Lute or Davis did. We aren’t comparing him (in this particular instance) to the rest of the P6 coaches in 2025.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
I get where you are coming from, but we have had a Top 25ish football program since the 80s first under Fry and then KF. Yet, through that all, Lute, Raveling, Davis, and even Alford for a while packed Carver and had good success. There was room for both programs to be supported. And heck, look how easily Iowa went from 800 fans showing up for women's games to 15,000 in two years time. And even after female Michael Jordan left, the fan support for the women's team remains.
My problem with your take is that you absolve Fran of any responsibility for the steady decline in fan engagement and donor support during his tenure, and you seemed to suggest he has no role in the non-competitive nature of our NIL. I disagree. Those issues are not all Fran's fault, but he bears some responsibility. The blood from a turnip thing is just a defeatist attitude. Iowa can better support its MBB and I hope Fran takes a more prominent role in that if he stays, or a new coach generates some excitement.
1000% yes. I've heard Scott Dochterman podcasts speak to this multiple times. Fran took away the Prime Time league and didn't replace it with anything. He didn't want to play Drake and UNI anymore and replaced those games with schools like New Hampshire and directional schools nobodies heard of.
Those are blows to fan interest locally. Fran doesn't do damn near anything beyond his weekly radio thing (I assume he still does that during the yr but honestly I've never listened to it or know when it's on) that I'm aware of that could endear him to the fans. He's great with raising $ for cancer. He's a champion for that cause like no other. But I think he mostly rubs shoulders with the uppity rich folks and not the average joe fan for those things.
Those are conscious decisions he and Barta made. Regardless of if Barta was for all that or not he didn't seem to push back on him for any of it so he too gets to be piled on for it some. He coulda encouraged Fran to do things differently. Think more creatively etc. To me Fran has done the absolute bare minimum from a fans perspective and to expect the fans to pay more yr after yr and show out when all you've done is take away from them is peeing on them and saying it's raining.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
Ya know, over the years I have heard many stories of regular fans meeting KF at a charity thing or Iclub deal or the like and people note how friendly and cordial he was. You just don't hear those same types of story about Fran. At least I don't. I am sure Fran is a great guy and I cannot imagine the hours he works recruiting, coaching and raising those boys. There probably aren't enough hours in the day for fan engagement. But, right or wrong, it is hard to find things to get excited about Fran's program right now.
Fryowa
Administrator
I don't disagree that Fran isn't a people person and that has it's drawbacks obviously. My main point was that the environment is much more difficult to succeed in today.
Maybe this is a better way to out it...
Davis was somewhat overrated and Fran is somewhat underrated.
trj
Well-Known Member
In Fran’s defense(no pun intended) the lack of fan engagement started before Fran even got here. Dochterman in one of the pods @Hawkfnntn listened to he talked about the steady decline of ticket revenue. It was at 4 million in 2005 and it is a little over 2 million now.
There are a generation of fans that are just gone from men’s basketball and are not coming back. Yes, Fran could have did more, but how much more I am really not sure.
trj
Well-Known Member
Naah, Davis is somewhat overrated and Fran is properly rated. Take out TD’s first season and his last season the 11 years in the middle were exactly like Fran’s.
Fryowa
Administrator
I think part of that is Fran being an East Coaster growing up in Philly. It's just their thing to be pretty stand off-ish. I've been there plenty of times (unfortunately) and I'll be honest...most of the people you meet would be considered huge assholes under midwestern criteria even if they're great people. You have to have a certain level of asshole-ness to grow up and survive there.
That's a problem in a place like Iowa.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
As a basketball coach, I agree. Fran has an amazing eye for talent when recruiting. He is a slightly above average bench coach. He is a very good developer of talent.
Davis was a much better CEO than Fran. I loved them both, but they are very different.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
I HAAAATE "if you take out" arguments! His first season happened!! That said, fine I will take it out. Davis still has a better resume than Fran based on March Madness (ya know, the thing that MBB coaches are judged by).
In his career, he never lost in the first round, and even after we throw pixy dust on 87/88 and make it disappear, he still made the Sweet 16 twice at Iowa.
Oh, are we forgetting that at BC he made it to a Sweet 16 and an Elite 8???
So, two Elite 8s, two Sweet 16s. and 6 round of 32s.
I retract my post above to Fry. Davis was a better coach than Fran. Its just facts, boys.
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
No Matter What, Mr. Davis's first season was gift-wrapped and he took the reins and coached
one of the best Hawkeye teams ever, at least on a par with Ralph Miler's team with Downtown
Freddy Brown and John Johnson
Not to mention: The Fabulous Five / back to back Final Fours
As juniors in 1954–55, Iowa, with the "Fabulous Five" won the Big Ten outright and eventually finished fourth in the nation. Iowa advanced to the Final Four of the 1955 NCAA tournament, defeating Penn State 82–53 and Marquette 86–81 to advance.
In 1955–56, as seniors, Iowa again won the Big Ten outright and advanced to the Final Four of the 1956 NCAA tournament. They defeated Morehead State 97–83 and Kentucky and Coach Adolph Rupp 89–77 to advance to the Final Four. There, they defeated Temple 83–76 to advance to the national championship game. In the championship game, Iowa lost to the undefeated defending national champions — the Bill Russell-led San Francisco Dons by a score of 83–71.[27] To date, it remains the only national championship game appearance by the Hawkeyes
I was living in Philadelphia and didn't even realize that Iowa was in the United States
My Dad was transferred to Meredith Publishing in Des Moines in 1957 and instantly became a
Hawkeye fan, a rabid fan
I followed in his footsteps, of course
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
Damn, won't let me call him Mr. Davis, replaces it with Mr. Davis
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
This is Fry performing mischief! He has programed the system to change Mr. Davis (if you write it the normal way) to Mr. Davis. He is a clever one that Fry.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
Fry, you evil genius. He is catching up to my variations on D Octer Tom.
trj
Well-Known Member
If Fran had inherited a roster that included 7 guys that would get drafted in the first 3 rounds of NBA draft…he would probably have two Elite 8s. You know what Fran got instead? A complete dumpster fire.
TD’s second Elite 8 was basically on the fumes of Marble,Horton and Armstrong. Two NBA first rounders, and a bad ass known for kicking a wrestler’s ass at the Old Capital Mall. TD’s second sweet 16 was Bowlsby kicking him out the door and a 150 year old Jess Settles and everyone else rallying around it.
Tom Davis isn’t a better coach than Fran. Fran is the all-time winningest coach in Iowa history. And if I were to re-name the court, it would be after Lute or Caitlan.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
How about we go with Spanish to fool Fry:
El médico Tomás
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
Well, I don't live in a hypothetical world. What I do know is that Fran has had some good teams and never gotten past the second game of the NCAA tourney. Maybe Fran would have taken the 87 team to a Nattie, maybe some kid hits a 30-footer from the corner and he drops out in the first round. No one knows what happens in Made Up Land.
What I do know is that not only did Dr. T have one Elite 8 appearance with Iowa, he had another one with BC, and a total of 3 Sweet 16s, one of which he pulled off as a lame duck coach before being fired. Comparing Davis' record in the real world with Fran's record in the real world and there is no comparison who has had a better career, at least as measured by Tourney success. Not even a close call.
And the floor will be named after CC some day. 70% of the fanbase was not alive when Lute was here.
