Iowa-Penn St. Kicking Off at Night

[NorthKCHawk]

Stellar observations. Not only did we not win a single bowl game (and at that point they still kind of had some cache which is now completely gone) we got utterly embarrassed. We had that 4-8 year where offensive production fell off a damned cliff. We didn't cross the 50 against LSU (maybe we just nudged over it once but our two scoring drives totaled 5 yards (I believe one was on a defensive TD that was called back because the dude celebrated early). Hawkslayer Bowl. Standford game. It was a horrific run when O'Keefe was gone.

Yeah, we had a nice year in 2015, but that was largely a function of how bad our schedule was that year.

I am not a fan of Greg Davis, but I am even less a fan of selective statistics to prove a dubious point. You cannot weigh the effect of the absence of KOK, or the tenure of Greg Davis, by cherry picking out arguably the greatest season of Iowa football in most of our lifetimes. 2015 happened. You can't ignore it to make a point.

I agree there were shit years under Davis and I still think he was a godawful hire on paper and in performance, but obviously there was some successes. He identified, developed and deployed CJ Beatherd, who won a lot of games at Iowa and is the most successful NFL QB during the KF era (and that is not saying much).

I believe KOK was not a difference maker at Iowa as the OC. He was fine. He had his ups and downs. Few OCs out there could make a difference at Iowa given KF's approach to managing the offense and the game overall.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I am not a fan of Greg Davis, but I am even less a fan of selective statistics to prove a dubious point. You cannot weigh the effect of the absence of KOK, or the tenure of Greg Davis, by cherry picking out arguably the greatest season of Iowa football in most of our lifetimes. 2015 happened. You can't ignore it to make a point.

I agree there were shit years under Davis and I still think he was a godawful hire on paper and in performance, but obviously there was some successes. He identified, developed and deployed CJ Beatherd, who won a lot of games at Iowa and is the most successful NFL QB during the KF era (and that is not saying much).

I believe KOK was not a difference maker at Iowa as the OC. He was fine. He had his ups and downs. Few OCs out there could make a difference at Iowa given KF's approach to managing the offense and the game overall.

CJ lucked into Iowa because he wasn't good enough to play in the SEC and his family is football royalty who respects Kirk Ferentz. Recall, if you will, that CJ threatened to leave Iowa if he didn't start. Jake Rudock, who was the starter, was an O'Keefe recruit who ended up transferring to and starting at Michigan. CJ falling into Davis's lap was just a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut. I'll not listen to your revisionist history about how Greg Davis was so awesome.

Do you have access to a website called the Google? If so, look into JVB's TD passes under O'Keefe and then under Davis the next year. Ball. Don't. Lie.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

CJ lucked into Iowa because he wasn't good enough to play in the SEC and his family is football royalty who respects Kirk Ferentz. Recall, if you will, that CJ threatened to leave Iowa if he didn't start. Jake Rudock, who was the starter, was an O'Keefe recruit who ended up transferring to and starting at Michigan. CJ falling into Davis's lap was just a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut. I'll not listen to your revisionist history about how Greg Davis was so awesome.

Do you have access to a website called the Google? If so, look into JVB's TD passes under O'Keefe and then under Davis the next year. Ball. Don't. Lie.

Please go back and read my previous post and try to follow the words that are written in plain English and follow a logic stream.

I said "Greg Davis was awesome?" Are you shitting me? My previous post said just the opposite: "I am not a fan of Greg Davis" & "I agree there were shit years under Davis and I still think he was a godawful hire on paper and in performance." Only in the Bizarro Universe could my post be construed as saying Greg Davis was awesome. He generally sucked. In logic stream, this is known as the Strawman Argument, wherein your debate opponent is attributed a trait that is untrue so as to afford you the ability to criticize that false position.

However CJ came to Iowa, he was certainly recruited by the then existing staff who convinced him to come to Iowa. It's not as though he was driving through Iowa, got a flat and said, "shit, I guess I will just go to school here." He was convinced by someone that Iowa was a good fit for him. Also, he was clearly developed by the QB coach. He did not walk out of high school ready to step on the field and dominate college ball. And, he was put into the starting line-up over an existing (and pretty good) starter by someone. I suspect the OC had some voice in that. Again, 2015 happened and Greg Davis was the OC. Ignoring that is the Fallacy of Predetermined Outcomes---meaning you don't like Davis and have a man-crush on KOK so you select which facts you want to consider to achieve the result already in your head.

I actually don't think either one of them was all that special as an OC, but I disliked Davis more. He was a terrible hire.

As to your point on JVB, I agree, Davis sucked. That does not mean KOK was awesome. That is known as The False Dilemma Fallacy.

I have Google. I assume you do too. Try searching some of these fun logic paradigms. They are enlightening!

 

[Sooby]

Penn State's 1st team offense was getting beat by the Penn State 2nd team defense in their Spring Game.

Yes, it's only the Spring Game and there is plenty of time until late September.
However, many Penn State fans couldn't wait to move on from Sean Clifford.
But, in 2021, we saw Penn State football without Sean Clifford and there was a major drop-off.

The current over/under for Penn State is 9.5 wins.
To me, this assumes losses to Ohio State and Michigan and a toss-up vs. Iowa.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Penn State's 1st team offense was getting beat by the Penn State 2nd team defense in their Spring Game.

Yes, it's only the Spring Game and there is plenty of time until late September.
However, many Penn State fans couldn't wait to move on from Sean Clifford.
But, in 2021, we saw Penn State football without Sean Clifford and there was a major drop-off.

The current over/under for Penn State is 9.5 wins.
To me, this assumes losses to Ohio State and Michigan and a toss-up vs. Iowa.

Sounds like we might get another 6-4 classic Iowa/PSU barnburner!