Iowa isn't Tough Enough

tweeterhawk said:
This is news?
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Agree. Didn't we hear this exact same statement two years ago? I seem to remember during Jake Kelly's freshmen year we heard how Iowa wasn't tough enough and Lick realized he had to get the guys lifting weights. Then last year, people stated it looked like Kelly, Petersen and Cole looked to have added some size/strength during the offseason. I know Kelly said he lost some of his size/strength going through tough times after his mom had passed away.

Seems like a lot of things tend to be repeating themselves with this basketball program. Feels like DEJAVU.........

I watched about 27 minutes of last night's BB game, wow!
 
hawkytalk said:
Whats your thoughts on not being tough enough storming?
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I'm confused by it. Here's a team that all last year admitted not being strong enough. BB fans said it too - Iowa is too soft. They go out and get Rusty to come in and get them stronger. He does that. (Trust me, he did, the guys are in great shape and those who needed to, added weight) Yet they are still soft. It almost seems as if it's a mental toughness more than anything, and that I would agree with.
 
imported_ankle23 said:
No offense to this stormin' character, but why is his thoughts on our BB team so important? Just curious, not meant to be a flame.
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20's likely wondering what my thoughts are because I'm one of the more optimistic fans around, if I'm down, that likely says a lot.... just my thoughts.

My opinion is no more important or knowledgeable than anyone else's.
 
Your opinon is more important to myself and alot of other people on this site and others. Keep up the good work. You have a very tough task in trying to find positives on a negative program.
 
It's fine for the players to talk about getting tougher...

storminspank said:
Iowa-Illinois post-game blog: Hawkeyes finally figure out they have to get tough John Bohnenkamp Blog:
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what are they going to say, we just aren't good enough?

There is nothing wrong with the mental makeup or the willingness to compete of the Iowa players. When you aren't good enough, you aren't good enough, period. The reason that our opponents always seem like they get any shot they want and we struggle to get the ball up court and get good shots is the other teams have A LOT more talent than we do on the floor. You can try to analyze it a zillion different ways, but this is what Iowa basketball is right now.
A huge (probably on par with the actual X's and O's) part of coaching in the Big 10 is recruiting. Do you think Carmody from Northwestern is all of a sudden coaching better this year? Or is it that he has improved the talent level on Northwestern's roster compared to previous years? Is John Calipari a great "coach", or is he great at procuring talent? When he was in the NBA, where you don't get to out-recruit your opponent, he was just another fired coach who didn't win squat in the league.

The effort by this year's Iowa team is fine. It is going to get more difficult to keep fighting as the losses mount. They are not the ones who have let anyone down. That's on the coaches for not putting together a roster that can compete in the Big 10.
 
Re: It's fine for the players to talk about getting tougher...

DodgerHawki said:
what are they going to say, we just aren't good enough?

There is nothing wrong with the mental makeup or the willingness to compete of the Iowa players. When you aren't good enough, you aren't good enough, period. The reason that our opponents always seem like they get any shot they want and we struggle to get the ball up court and get good shots is the other teams have A LOT more talent than we do on the floor. You can try to analyze it a zillion different ways, but this is what Iowa basketball is right now.
A huge (probably on par with the actual X's and O's) part of coaching in the Big 10 is recruiting. Do you think Carmody from Northwestern is all of a sudden coaching better this year? Or is it that he has improved the talent level on Northwestern's roster compared to previous years? Is John Calipari a great "coach", or is he great at procuring talent? When he was in the NBA, where you don't get to out-recruit your opponent, he was just another fired coach who didn't win squat in the league.

The effort by this year's Iowa team is fine. It is going to get more difficult to keep fighting as the losses mount. They are not the ones who have let anyone down. That's on the coaches for not putting together a roster that can compete in the Big 10.
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Well said. Lot's of people around here get offended if you state the obvious, which is Iowa just does not have the talent/depth to compete for 40 minutes vs. good teams. Iowa has some nice pieces, but they really lack a few play makers. And just by everyone being a year older next year will not solve the issue one bit unless people belive that Iowa is the ONLY dynamic team in the Big 10 and every other team is static and will remain absolutely the same. Being a year older will not solve the talent issues.

Heck Lickliter in the Devan Bawinkle article said Iowa has no play makers, which is funny that he said it, but it's absolutely true.

You can't out X and O teams all season in the Big 10. It's going to come down to beating your man and Iowa just does not have players who can consistently beat their man.
 
iahawk20 said:
Stormin, what are your current thoughts on the program and Lick?
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The current state is not good. I think some people were a little over-exuberant in claiming the offense is better with 1) Tucker out and 2) Lickliter in. Change is fine, but those two changes aren't helping the program.

I'm not saying with Tucker in that Iowa wins either of the last 3 games, but his absence is felt. If nothing, for depth.

Bawinkel has regressed.
Cole doesn't get enough opportunities.
Gatens looks frustrated as teams key on him.
Payne is doing ok for true frosh PG.
Fuller has his moments.
Cougs has been ineffective the past 8 games or so.
May is aggressive and athletic, but makes a lot of freshman mistakes.
Brommer still looks lost on the court.
Lickliter has a tremendous attitude, but isn't a B10 player yet.

Iowa's defense is absolutely HORRIFIC right now. Perimeter D is non-existent.
Transition D has regressed from the past two years too.
Iowa stayed in games the past few years with their D, yet this year they can't get stops.

Missed bunnies. Missed offensive/defensive rebounds. Too many turnovers.

Just a lot going the wrong way for Iowa right now. Not by dumb luck or chance, but they just aren't a good BB team right now.

With all of that said, I firmly believe Iowa (and its fans) need to give Lickliter through next season to give him a couple years with his players. We should know halfway through BT play next year if the Lickliter experiment is going to work or not. The player retention issue has severely hampered its progress. Now, if losing players (read: key players) is going to be a trend with Lickliter, his tenure here is short lived. However, if the past couple years have been anamolies in regards to player retention, we need to sit back and let the program have a chance to get going. I realize that hard to read and hard to agree to. It's just my opinion on it.

So, long story short... current thoughts are: the program is in worse shape than I expected it to be this year.
 
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When your not good, your not good. Nothing will right this ship this year. Nothing will right the ship next year. Count your losses, fire Lick, and start from scratch. Worst team I have ever seen at Iowa. How can it really get any better? This team has no identity and the losses piling up will wear the best person down.
 
It sucks to say, but Lickliter is right about the toughness being a large part due to inexperience. And thats on him because we're starting over again in Year 3. That's why I keep saying a large part of what is going to ultimately decide his fate is if he can keep guys from leaving and getting the whole team to "buy in". He's going to struggle bringing in the more talented guys until he starts to win. And he's not going to start winning at least moderately until his roster has a full complement of players that can at least play a little bit. Then you just need to get tougher. Some of that you can do in practice with the drills you do (i.e. get the football pads out, can't get out of a defensive drill until you make 2 stops in a row, etc..) But there's no replacement for experience.

If you arent going to be the most talented team you better be tough and figure out a way to get it done. Younger guys still are learning that.
________
Wellbutrin lawyers
 
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He should get another year...

storminspank said:
The current state is not good. I think some people were a little over-exuberant in claiming the offense is better with 1) Tucker out and 2) Lickliter in. Change is fine, but those two changes aren't helping the program.

I'm not saying with Tucker in that Iowa wins either of the last 3 games, but his absence is felt. If nothing, for depth.

Bawinkel has regressed.
Cole doesn't get enough opportunities.
Gatens looks frustrated as teams key on him.
Payne is doing ok for true frosh PG.
Fuller has his moments.
Cougs has been ineffective the past 8 games or so.
May is aggressive and athletic, but makes a lot of freshman mistakes.
Brommer still looks lost on the court.
Lickliter has a tremendous attitude, but isn't a B10 player yet.

Iowa's defense is absolutely HORRIFIC right now. Perimeter D is non-existent.
Transition D has regressed from the past two years too.
Iowa stayed in games the past few years with their D, yet this year they can't get stops.

Missed bunnies. Missed offensive/defensive rebounds. Too many turnovers.

Just a lot going the wrong way for Iowa right now. Not by dumb luck or chance, but they just aren't a good BB team right now.

With all of that said, I firmly believe Iowa (and its fans) need to give Lickliter through next season to give him a couple years with his players. We should know halfway through BT play next year if the Lickliter experiment is going to work or not. The player retention issue has severely hampered its progress. Now, if losing players (read: key players) is going to be a trend with Lickliter, his tenure here is short lived. However, if the past couple years have been anamolies in regards to player retention, we need to sit back and let the program have a chance to get going. I realize that hard to read and hard to agree to. It's just my opinion on it.

So, long story short... current thoughts are: the program is in worse shape than I expected it to be this year.
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barring one of a couple of things happening:

1) the team just up and quits on him, is not competitive in any games, and goes o-fer in the conference. That would be enough to remove him.
2) More transfers. If any of Cougill/Payne/Gatens/Fuller/May depart, then bye-bye Lick. That would mark 3 straight years where key contributors leave. At that point the program would truly become unsustainable under Lickliter.
 
I just don't see the talent level to be successful. To me May and Cougil are marginal recruits. The kind of kids you offer if you have four scholarships and want to take on a recruit to develop with the last scholarship. I would put Fuller in this catagorey as well. I'm not sold on Payne. I think he is a man without a position in the Big Ten. I have no doubt he competes hard, but that is not enough. Honestly which players on this team would you offer if you were recruiting for a top three level Big Ten team?

Not to be all negative, but I think talk about toughness and youth is a smokescreen to hide the lack of Big Ten level talent. I am afraid the grinder schedule of the Big Ten will make this even more apparent.

I do like Gatens and feel if he was surrounded by talent his skills would really be brought out.
 
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