Iowa is 2-15 against AP top 25 teams since 2017

I dont think anyone is suggesting this method of opponent evaluation is a precise science. But it does help to keep the 'quality' of wins, and losses, in perspective.
 
SwirlinLingerie said:
I'm saying it's only one measure to look at. And I'd say final polls are way less bullshit than early or mid-season polls. You should do the Saragin or Massey analysis. Would love to look at those results, too. Final AP polls were easy to grab for me.

I get the argument about an opponent not being ranked because Iowa beat them. But not sure how often that has applied for Iowa. Penn State was 7-6 last year. Ultimately they ended up being a pretty average team. In contrast, in the years in that stretch in which Penn State beat Iowa, Penn State was 11-2 (#8), 11-2 (#9) and 9-4 (#17).
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You've got a fair point, I just don't know how relevant it is. Again the teams that end the season ranked don't have very many losses so I can't imagine there are very many teams that can say they have a good record against teams that finish the season ranked.

I know PSU hit the skids after the Iowa loss, losing the next game at home to Illinois (after a bye even) really hurt but all the rest of their losses were very close and to ranked teams. They gave Ohio State all they wanted in the horseshoe and almost knocked off Michigan.

But, again, it is interesting and I don't see this record getting any better anytime soon. There are no ranked opponents the rest of the way and next seasons schedule is terrible. Iowa does get a huge advantage playing in the West so they don't have to play PSU, Michigan, and Ohio State every year.
 
ssckelley said:
You've got a fair point, I just don't know how relevant it is. Again the teams that end the season ranked don't have very many losses so I can't imagine there are very many teams that can say they have a good record against teams that finish the season ranked.

I know PSU hit the skids after the Iowa loss, losing the next game at home to Illinois (after a bye even) really hurt but all the rest of their losses were very close and to ranked teams. They gave Ohio State all they wanted in the horseshoe and almost knocked off Michigan.

But, again, it is interesting and I don't see this record getting any better anytime soon. There are no ranked opponents the rest of the way and next seasons schedule is terrible. Iowa does get a huge advantage playing in the West so they don't have to play PSU, Michigan, and Ohio State every year.
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Not sure that's an advantage. It allows for some degree of mediocrity on offense.
 
ssckelley said:
You've got a fair point, I just don't know how relevant it is. Again the teams that end the season ranked don't have very many losses so I can't imagine there are very many teams that can say they have a good record against teams that finish the season ranked.

I know PSU hit the skids after the Iowa loss, losing the next game at home to Illinois (after a bye even) really hurt but all the rest of their losses were very close and to ranked teams. They gave Ohio State all they wanted in the horseshoe and almost knocked off Michigan.

But, again, it is interesting and I don't see this record getting any better anytime soon. There are no ranked opponents the rest of the way and next seasons schedule is terrible. Iowa does get a huge advantage playing in the West so they don't have to play PSU, Michigan, and Ohio State every year.
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But Iowa has finished ranked four of the last five seasons. Don't you think a 2-15 record against ranked teams for a team that has finished ranked itself is unusual? I think it provides commentary that Iowa's consistent but predictable style has limited losses against "inferior" teams but perhaps also limited the ability to beat ranked teams.
 
SwirlinLingerie said:
But Iowa has finished ranked four of the last five seasons. Don't you think a 2-15 record against ranked teams for a team that has finished ranked itself is unusual? I think it provides commentary that Iowa's consistent but predictable style has limited losses against "inferior" teams but perhaps also limited the ability to beat ranked teams.
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I just don’t know, again USC was ranked until Iowa beat them as was Wisconsin in the last game of the 2020 season. Had Iowa lost those games the record would be 2-17. Maybe it does say something
 
suisu said:
Thank you for a lot of work. In my opinion, we aren't, haven't been and never will be a National football power so long as the Ferentz family rules Iowa City. We have come close in the glory days of Evy and Hayden, but what we have now is politically correct mediocrity. Good god nepotism!! It's an embarisment.
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Here the F we go again.....

Total wins at Iowa: Kirk 181, Hayden 143
Winning percentage: Kirk. 614, Hayden .613
Average wins per season: Kirk 7.54, Hayden 7.15
Bowl record at Iowa: Kirk 9-9 .500, Hayden 6-7-1 .481
Final season top 10 finishes: Kirk 5 (02, 03, 04, 09, 15) Hayden 2 (85 and 91)

Yet Hayden was considered glory days and Kirk politically correct mediocrity. And these numbers

1) take into account this partial cesspool of a season
2) don't take imto account the truncated 2020 season when we could potentially have finished top ten.

I, for one, will refuse to hold Kirk's entire legacy against him for how he ends it, shiity as it may be ending. Because what's coming after he steps down won't be pretty.

People who were calling for Nate Stanley's scalp in 18 and 19 would take him back in a heartbeat.

We will be saying the same thing about Kirk someday as well
 
Northside Hawk said:
Here the F we go again.....

Total wins at Iowa: Kirk 181, Hayden 143
Winning percentage: Kirk. 614, Hayden .613
Average wins per season: Kirk 7.54, Hayden 7.15
Bowl record at Iowa: Kirk 9-9 .500, Hayden 6-7-1 .481
Final season top 10 finishes: Kirk 5 (02, 03, 04, 09, 15) Hayden 2 (85 and 91)

Yet Hayden was considered glory days and Kirk politically correct mediocrity. And these numbers

1) take into account this partial cesspool of a season
2) don't take imto account the truncated 2020 season when we could potentially have finished top ten.

I, for one, will refuse to hold Kirk's entire legacy against him for how he ends it, shiity as it may be ending. Because what's coming after he steps down won't be pretty.

People who were calling for Nate Stanley's scalp in 18 and 19 would take him back in a heartbeat.

We will be saying the same thing about Kirk someday as well
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Wins/season is a flawed metric. The number of games/season is not a constant.

People (not you) use the phrase "winningest coach in Iowa history" incorrectly. Percentage is the best indicator of "winningest"...you can't just count the Ws and ignore the Ls. (Kirk 110, Hayden 89 or 92 if you build in the 1/2 L for a tie). But if one prefers the raw number vs percentage approach then Kirk is also the "losingest" coach in Iowa history as he has the most losses. Longevity is behind both of those numbers.

Win % stands at .6135 for Kirk, .6134 for Hayden, that's about as close as two coaches could be statistically. Amazingly similar.

The sad thing about Kirk is he's burning up so much of the good will he's built over the years, and he's built a lot. Hayden tailed off at the end due to his age and health issues. Kirk is only 2 years younger than Hayden when he stepped down, but seems to be self-destructing rather than fading.
 
SwirlinLingerie said:
I'm guessing Alabama's record over teams that ended up in the final AP poll in that stretch is like 33-5. And that includes SEC title games and playoff games. While Iowa's record is 2-15.
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I'd also add that SEC teams that drop to 8-4 are usually ranked. Not so much for most of the Big10.
 
hawkdrummer1 said:
Wins/season is a flawed metric. The number of games/season is not a constant.

People (not you) use the phrase "winningest coach in Iowa history" incorrectly. Percentage is the best indicator of "winningest"...you can't just count the Ws and ignore the Ls. (Kirk 110, Hayden 89 or 92 if you build in the 1/2 L for a tie). But if one prefers the raw number vs percentage approach then Kirk is also the "losingest" coach in Iowa history as he has the most losses. Longevity is behind both of those numbers.

Win % stands at .6135 for Kirk, .6134 for Hayden, that's about as close as two coaches could be statistically. Amazingly similar.

The sad thing about Kirk is he's burning up so much of the good will he's built over the years, and he's built a lot. Hayden tailed off at the end due to his age and health issues. Kirk is only 2 years younger than Hayden when he stepped down, but seems to be self-destructing rather than fading.
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With one exception, the stats between the two are similar. Which is why I'm perplexed when people see Hayden through rose colored glasses. Maybe there's some human nature involved.

The final stat, season ending top ten finishes, is no contest. And it may be the best overall indicator of coaching pedigree. It depends how much of a grain of salt you give final season rankings.
 
HuckFinn said:
Give me a minute. I can probably find a way to show that Iowa is and has been the worst team in Power 5.
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I’ll save you time and tell you unequivocally, ferentz coached teams are the most predictable and boring teams that have ever existed
 
Northside Hawk said:
With one exception, the stats between the two are similar. Which is why I'm perplexed when people see Hayden through rose colored glasses. Maybe there's some human nature involved.

The final stat, season ending top ten finishes, is no contest. And it may be the best overall indicator of coaching pedigree. It depends how much of a grain of salt you give final season rankings.
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Two reasons, probably.

One, Hayden rescued Iowa football from the depths. He did something no other coach was able too...he brought us back.
Also, Hayden had more personality, he was a likable character. I'd suggest that's a big part of how he was able to rebrand Iowa football as a winner. That energy was needed to generate positive attention for the program.

Kirk certainly has his personal strengths too, he's about as solid a man as you'll find. Like Hayden, his players are eternally loyal to him (save a few ingrates).
 
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