Innocent question regarding the future of Women’s Basketball

[Gander Hawk]

I heard that the Porter guy that the NBA just banned for gambling is going to 'transition' into a woman so he can go to the WNBA as Patrice and dominate.

I do wonder though what would some of the staunch liberal Clark fans think if a man got himself into playing womens hoops dominated and just destroyed all the records she just set how that'd go over. I'm just saying... As we sit here today that's not an impossibility.

Some people always look at the most extreme situations on this issue. I don't think male athletes are lining up to transition so they can dominate a female sports league. However, young kids who just want to be part of a team will be denied the opportunity due to this unfounded alarmist thinking.

 

[PCHawk]

nonsense

Interesting point.

 

[PCHawk]

Some people always look at the most extreme situations on this issue. I don't think male athletes are lining up to transition so they can dominate a female sports league. However, young kids who just want to be part of a team will be denied the opportunity due to this unfounded alarmist thinking.

They won't be denied an opportunity to be part of a team. No on3 has ever said they can't join a men's team.

 

[PCHawk]

There's about 8 billion people on this planet. That's way too many people for anyone to make the blanket statement "guys won't join a woman's sport just to dominate it". Out of 8 billion people, is it hard to imagine the possibility that there's 10 guys that would do it just to do it? Extreme example or not, that can't be allowed to happen. I can't imagine there's many fathers of daughters out there that would be ok with Lia Thomas walking around naked in front of them.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Some people always look at the most extreme situations on this issue. I don't think male athletes are lining up to transition so they can dominate a female sports league. However, young kids who just want to be part of a team will be denied the opportunity due to this unfounded alarmist thinking.

Well it's already happened in swimming and track I think... Just waiting on it to happen in hoops. Is what I said pretty dang extreme of a case? Yeah no doubt. The thing is the gap between mens and womens D1 hoop athletes is night and day. The worst D1 male player would dominate womens hoops and it wouldn't matter what position.

As far as those being denied goes. Well that's just life. We all are denied of wants. Playing D1 sports on a scholly isn't a right of any sort. It's 2024 can we not come up with a way for them to compete amongst themselves or with others that would voluntarily agree to? Forcing women who go to college to compete against other women but then after they get there being told no you're facing a man now too isn't what they signed up for. Now that's not even remotely fair but the powers that be don't seem to care about the majority for some reason just the minority. It's odd

 

[CP87]

NCAA struggling with this issue, might be a vote on policy in the near future?

https://wapo.st/3Usp7y2

 

[HuckFinn]

NCAA struggling with this issue, might be a vote on policy in the near future?

https://wapo.st/3Usp7y2

Wherever the ncaa goes on this they will get sued.

 

[Fryowa]

OK, let's solve this thing.

Take a random testosterone level sampling of 25,000 people ages 16-25 who were assigned female gender at birth. That's the dividing line. 25,000 samples would eliminate the error caused by people who choose gender based on their own criteria and claim it's incorrect on their birth certificates. Allow competition in female sports if you fall in the female range plus 2% and allow anyone to compete in the male division.

If you get offended by gender designation I can solve that too. Call it the Low-T division and the High-T division.

So at the Olympics you have a HT 100m dash champion, and a LT 100m dash champion. And so on down the line. Some of us will still call it men's and women's divisions and that's A-OK.

I still won't watch Low-T professional basketball because it's boring.

There...done. Move on with our lives.

 

[eyekwah]

OK, let's solve this thing.

Take a random testosterone level sampling of 25,000 people ages 16-25 who were assigned female gender at birth.

Standard Iowa Birth Certificate

Gender is not on the document, but sex is. Sex is biological assignment. Gender is not assignable at birth because it is based on behavior.

 

[CP87]

OK, let's solve this thing.

Take a random testosterone level sampling of 25,000 people ages 16-25 who were assigned female gender at birth. That's the dividing line. 25,000 samples would eliminate the error caused by people who choose gender based on their own criteria and claim it's incorrect on their birth certificates. Allow competition in female sports if you fall in the female range plus 2% and allow anyone to compete in the male division.

If you get offended by gender designation I can solve that too. Call it the Low-T division and the High-T division.

So at the Olympics you have a HT 100m dash champion, and a LT 100m dash champion. And so on down the line. Some of us will still call it men's and women's divisions and that's A-OK.

I still won't watch Low-T professional basketball because it's boring.

There...done. Move on with our lives.

This is essentially what they already do for DSD athletes, but some sports governing bodies (IAAF & FINA for T&F and swimming, respectively) have taken the extra step and declared if you go through puberty as a male, you cannot compete as a female down the road, even if you are suppressing T levels to the normal female range.

I think you are on track with the idea of a separate division...perhaps it is not perfect, but there is just not a perfect solution to be found in this case. Make a decision, be honest about the pros and cons, don't be an asshole, and move forward.

 

[Fryowa]

Standard Iowa Birth Certificate

Gender is not on the document, but sex is. Sex is biological assignment. Gender is not assignable at birth because it is based on behavior.

Okay sex then. Pretty sure the point of what I said was obvious

 

[Fryowa]

This is essentially what they already do for DSD athletes, but some sports governing bodies (IAAF & FINA for T&F and swimming, respectively) have taken the extra step and declared if you go through puberty as a male, you cannot compete as a female down the road, even if you are suppressing T levels to the normal female range.

I think you are on track with the idea of a separate division...perhaps it is not perfect, but there is just not a perfect solution to be found in this case. Make a decision, be honest about the pros and cons, don't be an asshole, and move forward.

To piggy back on the track and field thread, we have wheelchair divisions in every state, and in Iowa at least I’ve never seen more than 2 competitors at one regular season meet before. And none of them bitch about the small field. Create a trans division.

And before snowflakes accuse me of saying gender [insert proper description of issue here] is a disability, that’s not at all what I mean. I’m talking about the retort I’ve heard from some trans athletes that the field would be small or non-existent. Tell that to the kid from West Lyon I’ve watched do 3-4 events in the wheelchair division every night for the past five years by himself. He’s never once bitched. He has cerebral palsy and can walk and run (he also runs the 100m in the ambulatory division) but does the 200, 400, and 800 in his wheelchair. Tell me how that’s different than someone being asked to go to a trans division when there’s an undisputed scientific advantage (much higher T)…

Here’s one for you…

The ambulatory division is new in Iowa this year. Can I enter those races because I feel that for reasons of genetics I’m not as capable or gifted as athletes competing in the non-ambulatory division?

My son has really bad shin splints right now and it’s been diagnosed by a Dr and PT. Can or should he enter ambulatory because he feels disadvantaged by that condition?

 

[CP87]

To piggy back on the track and field thread, we have wheelchair divisions in every state, and in Iowa at least I’ve never seen more than 2 competitors at one regular season meet before. And none of them bitch about the small field. Create a trans division.

And before snowflakes accuse me of saying gender [insert proper description of issue here] is a disability, that’s not at all what I mean. I’m talking about the retort I’ve heard from some trans athletes that the field would be small or non-existent. Tell that to the kid from West Lyon I’ve watched do 3-4 events in the wheelchair division every night for the past five years by himself. He’s never once bitched. He has cerebral palsy and can walk and run (he also runs the 100m in the ambulatory division) but does the 200, 400, and 800 in his wheelchair. Tell me how that’s different than someone being asked to go to a trans division when there’s an undisputed scientific advantage (much higher T)…

Here’s one for you…

The ambulatory division is new in Iowa this year. Can I enter those races because I feel that for reasons of genetics I’m not as capable or gifted as athletes competing in the non-ambulatory division?

My son has really bad shin splints right now and it’s been diagnosed by a Dr and PT. Can or should he enter ambulatory because he feels disadvantaged by that condition?

I think that will be the solution. I think it will be harder for team sports, but not impossible. Not perfect, but as good as we can do with all of the considerations at play.

 

[Fryowa]

I think that will be the solution. I think it will be harder for team sports, but not impossible. Not perfect, but as good as we can do with all of the considerations at play

I don't really think it would be harder for team sports. Create a threshold, and players above or below it go direction A or direction B according to where they sit with their levels. If you want to play in the women's or Low-T division, your T has to be within a small percentage of the average human female's hormone levels.

Or find enough players for a trans-gender division.

Just because the population size of a particular segment isn't large enough to field a separate league it isn't the fault of everyone else, and it isn't their duty to include you because you don't have an alternative. You play/compete in the field that your hormone range falls in or start your own. Simple

 

[PCHawk]

I don't really think it would be harder for team sports. Create a threshold, and players above or below it go direction A or direction B according to where they sit with their levels. If you want to play in the women's or Low-T division, your T has to be within a small percentage of the average human female's hormone levels.

Or find enough players for a trans-gender division.

Just because the population size of a particular segment isn't large enough to field a separate league it isn't the fault of everyone else, and it isn't their duty to include you because you don't have an alternative. You play/compete in the field that your hormone range falls in or start your own. Simple

That all makes good sense to me. Then you just have to do the bathroom/locker room separation but that's easy too. One is for penises and the other is for vaginas. If you used to have a penis but cut it off and now have a vagina, you switch locker rooms.

 

[iowacountryboy]

Lol.

You do know that out of the 240 NAIA schools, 221 of them are private Christian schools, right? I'm not debating the merits of religion or lack thereof, but NAIA is basically church league for college kids who can't make a D3 team, and they're going to decide based on that...not by interpreting science.

Pretty misleading to mention NAIA and not also mention that it's a religious institution.

you said "

but NAIA is basically church league for college kids who can't make a D3 team "

thats not entirely true, NAIA would be considered an upgrade to NCAA D3,.. be comparable to NCAA D2.....D3 does not offer any athletic scholarship $,. NAIA does, nothing like D1 does ie: full tuition/ food allowance...