Imagine CJ with this extra weapon: Gazette article

[SteveL]

There are two completely separate points to make:

1) kfootball screwed up and didn't play DW when he should have.
2) DW handled it immaturely.

However, without #1, you don't have #2. Capisce?

I do find it very interesting that so many Iowa fans are wishing JR well and never even considered him a quitter, when that is exactly what he did.

There are at least two people who don't understand what it takes to play Div 1 level football, the above poster and Willies. Willies had his chance to stay at Iowa, even after his quitting and pouting over not play, but he didn't want to put in the effort and work that would have been required.

Stop living in past and enjoy what we have with this 2015 edition of Iowa football.

 

[PCHawk]

Wow, speaking of re writing history. DW was getting playing time, he was behind the players who were clearly better than him (KMM and Smith) and he was part of a group of 4 other players rotating into the game (Powell, Hillyer, Vandeberg, and DW). During the Purdue game it was clear he didn't have a grasp of the O, as he ran multiple routes wrong and it was either Morehouse or Docherman who said they were on the sidelines at Purdue and he was asking MV and other WR where he was supposed to be etc. Then he got injured and was limited. While he was still limited he quit.

He was getting playing time, but it was cleare he felt like you do and that more playing time should have been just GIVEN to him because he was 6'5 and fast, and not because he had separated from other and earned the time. Such is life tho, many believe that things should just be given, and not earned.

Unless the more talented player doesn't even try, it should be irrelevant how hard some scrub works. Life isn't fair. Some guys don't have to try as hard and they can still be better than a guy who busts his ***. You HAVE to have the best players on the field at this level. People like you and old Kirk would have gone 7-5 with guys like Rudock and Rudy starting.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

There are at least two people who don't understand what it takes to play Div 1 level football, the above poster and Willies. Willies had his chance to stay at Iowa, even after his quitting and pouting over not play, but he didn't want to put in the effort and work that would have been required.

Stop living in past and enjoy what we have with this 2015 edition of Iowa football.

SteveL, should I presume you were/are a D1 football player? If so, explain what it can do to a team to see less talented kids playing in front of the more talented kids. Hell, it doesn't even matter what level your playing at. But, please, by all means, explain to us all what it does take to be a D1 player.

Do you consider Jake Rudock a quitter?

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Wow, speaking of re writing history. DW was getting playing time, he was behind the players who were clearly better than him (KMM and Smith) and he was part of a group of 4 other players rotating into the game (Powell, Hillyer, Vandeberg, and DW). During the Purdue game it was clear he didn't have a grasp of the O, as he ran multiple routes wrong and it was either Morehouse or Docherman who said they were on the sidelines at Purdue and he was asking MV and other WR where he was supposed to be etc. Then he got injured and was limited. While he was still limited he quit.

He was getting playing time, but it was cleare he felt like you do and that more playing time should have been just GIVEN to him because he was 6'5 and fast, and not because he had separated from other and earned the time. Such is life tho, many believe that things should just be given, and not earned.

Dean, do have links? It is interesting that in the fallout of DW leaving, these nuggets of information weren't reported over and over and over. If this is the truth and there are articles to back it up, then I could understand the lack of playing time. Please provide the links.

 

[LG210]

^^^^This topic was covered earlier in the thread. The CRGazette may realize, like many, that you play CJ/Willies the entire game against the Cyclones in 2014 and that is a W. You give CJ two pro wide receivers THIS year (Willies/Smith) and Iowa has a MUCH better chance at winning their division. I can't think of anything more lame than the posters on this board who have thousands of posts and most of those posts are the equivalent of "let it go". Empty posting styles from empty heads.

Here's a partial list of things I won't let go: Tim Dwight shaving his legs - Haydens 15 game win streak against the clones - the 1981 victory over the Huskers - Chuck Long all thru 1985 - the 2002 loss to the Cyclones - Coker getting railroaded - AIRBHG's evil - Kurt Warner not getting a sniff from Fry - 8 wins outa 17 tries against the Cyclones - Juxtaposing Evy the legendary coach with Evy the AD - 2010 Wisky game - Double-agent Jon Beutjer's successful secret mission to take down Illinois from within - 2010 Georgia Tech game - Tate to Holloway - Sanders the kid who nobody wanted - Scothawks awesome videos - Ronnie Harmon - 38-14 over Pac10 co-champion - People who tell me they know Hawkeye football and then predict 45-3 victories before every game - Bob Bowlsby - any female University President - Larry Station - Prof.s who can't handle the awesome pink locker-room - lifetime contracts - Tavian Banks - posters who say "I'm good with 7-6 as long as we play IOWA football" - 2002 to 2004 - 4 top 10 finishes in a decade - greed redefined as classy - coaching tears that made me misty - and a bunch of other things that you control freaks think shouldn't be posted because you see Hawkeye boards as free happy therapy meant to only reflect your fantasies rather than reality.

BTW, I'm psyched about 3-0 and can't wait for the rest of the season to unfold.

Wow--that water tower actually looks like crap. No wonder they don't paint it.

 

[1hawkeye1]

The things one WR can do in a Texas JUCO do not equate to B1G football.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

The things one WR can do in a Texas JUCO do not equate to B1G football.

JUCO's are littered with kids with D1 and B1G talent. Many times they go JUCO for grades or as a transition stop before heading to another D1 school.

 

[GesterHawk]

Unless the more talented player doesn't even try, it should be irrelevant how hard some scrub works. Life isn't fair. Some guys don't have to try as hard and they can still be better than a guy who busts his ***. You HAVE to have the best players on the field at this level. People like you and old Kirk would have gone 7-5 with guys like Rudock and Rudy starting.

I agree the best players should be playing.
But I would venture to guess that our definition of best player is going to be different.

Being the best athlete does not mean you are a best player.

I will qualify this by saying this is my opinion and you are welcome to your own.
Best player = the sum of (athletic ability + knowledge of assignments + technique + mentality + effort + instincts)
Sometimes having enough of one can cover for a lack of the other, but it is not a guarantee that it will.

 

[LASBUR]

Wow, speaking of re writing history. DW was getting playing time, he was behind the players who were clearly better than him (KMM and Smith) and he was part of a group of 4 other players rotating into the game (Powell, Hillyer, Vandeberg, and DW). During the Purdue game it was clear he didn't have a grasp of the O, as he ran multiple routes wrong and it was either Morehouse or Docherman who said they were on the sidelines at Purdue and he was asking MV and other WR where he was supposed to be etc. Then he got injured and was limited. While he was still limited he quit.

He was getting playing time, but it was cleare he felt like you do and that more playing time should have been just GIVEN to him because he was 6'5 and fast, and not because he had separated from other and earned the time. Such is life tho, many believe that things should just be given, and not earned.

I belive this is pretty close. I also belive someone was giving him bad advise. The kid was very talented but I question his judgment.

 

[GesterHawk]

Jake Rudock quit on his coaches and teammates also. And guess what? He did it for the exact same reason Willies did. No playing time. The difference is that JR played in 2014 when he shouldn't have been and DW didn't play when he should have been. The ISSUE is that our head coach wouldn't play one of our best players at his position, but played the second best player at another position. I can only presume that blind loyalty prevents some folks from not searching for a root cause of the dysfunction found in this program the past many seasons. Last years team was divided because of who was and wasn't playing. This is understood, right? Let's not have a 3-0 start to 2015 rewrite history.

It may have been for the same reason but much different execution.
If you can't understand that quitting in the middle of the season is more detrimental to the team, then you are either walking around with blinders on or you don't understand team dynamics.

You are equating raw athletic talent with being a complete football player.

DW saw plenty of play time. He looked completely lost at times on the field. Do you want an extremely athletic kid running around the field who only knows where he is going 50% of the time or an average athletic kid who knows where he is going every time?

 

[PCHawk]

I agree the best players should be playing.
But I would venture to guess that our definition of best player is going to be different.

Being the best athlete does not mean you are a best player.

I will qualify this by saying this is my opinion and you are welcome to your own.
Best player = the sum of (athletic ability + knowledge of assignments + technique + mentality + effort + instincts)
Sometimes having enough of one can cover for a lack of the other, but it is not a guarantee that it will.

Completely agree. I would also say that Willies had so much of one that maybe he looked better than he actually was. Vandeberg has less athletic ability so maybe he's better than he looks because he has more of others. Maybe the fans are wrong here but this situation would have never been a big deal if Kirk didn't have a history of making very bad decisions.

 

[deanvogs]

Dean, do have links? It is interesting that in the fallout of DW leaving, these nuggets of information weren't reported over and over and over. If this is the truth and there are articles to back it up, then I could understand the lack of playing time. Please provide the links.

What did I say that needed links? Tell me which one of these requires a link?

1) KMM and Smith were clearly the starters and going to get the most playing time?
2) DW was getting playing time at WR along with Powell, Hillyer, and Vandeberg?
3) DW looked lost at the Purdue game, and ran multiple bad routes?
4) DW was limited with an injury?
5) my guess it is the part about what Morehouse and Docerman said. If that is he case go back and listen to their podcasts.

 

[LG210]

I agree the best players should be playing.
But I would venture to guess that our definition of best player is going to be different.

Being the best athlete does not mean you are a best player.

I will qualify this by saying this is my opinion and you are welcome to your own.
Best player = the sum of (athletic ability + knowledge of assignments + technique + mentality + effort + instincts)
Sometimes having enough of one can cover for a lack of the other, but it is not a guarantee that it will.

This is spot-on, and I will add one more dimension to your analysis.

The best player at a particular position often varies by play, game situation, and opponent match-up.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

It may have been for the same reason but much different execution.
If you can't understand that quitting in the middle of the season is more detrimental to the team, then you are either walking around with blinders on or you don't understand team dynamics.

You are equating raw athletic talent with being a complete football player.

DW saw plenty of play time. He looked completely lost at times on the field. Do you want an extremely athletic kid running around the field who only knows where he is going 50% of the time or an average athletic kid who knows where he is going every time?

So you are saying there are different types of quitting? Isn't quitting, quitting?

Unless someone (Deanvogs) can post links to the articles purported written by either Morehouse or Dochterman, that DW was completely lost in the offense, it's all hearsay. I'll add that asking teammates for help on assignments in-game is normal and typical. An offensive lineman misses an assignment, should he get benched? In-game adjustments are part of the game experience needed to help younger players mature.

From this snippet of an interview, DW sure sounded like he had a grasp of his assignments and reads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV66q6TyG60

 

[DP5555]

you really just said Texas A&M is in the BIG12...?

Can you read? I said TECH. How does someone like your post? Good grief.

 

[LG210]

So you are saying there are different types of quitting? Isn't quitting, quitting?

Unless someone (Deanvogs) can post links to the articles purported written by either Morehouse or Dochterman, that DW was completely lost in the offense, it's all hearsay. I'll add that asking teammates for help on assignments in-game is normal and typical. An offensive lineman misses an assignment, should he get benched? In-game adjustments are part of the game experience needed to help younger players mature.

From this snippet of an interview, DW sure sounded like he had a grasp of his assignments and reads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV66q6TyG60

Not all quitting is the same. Not even close.

Here is an extreme example for purposes of illustrating your logical fallacy only.

Extreme example: (1) Quitting because you think you deserve more playing time; vs. (2) quitting because you have suffered your eighth concussion of the season.

Less extreme example: (1) Quitting mid-season (resulting in an in-season distraction for your former teammates and coaches); vs. (2) quitting after the season ends (which may or may not result in an off-season distraction for your former teammates and coaches).

 

[GesterHawk]

So you are saying there are different types of quitting? Isn't quitting, quitting?

Unless someone (Deanvogs) can post links to the articles purported written by either Morehouse or Dochterman, that DW was completely lost in the offense, it's all hearsay. I'll add that asking teammates for help on assignments in-game is normal and typical. An offensive lineman misses an assignment, should he get benched? In-game adjustments are part of the game experience needed to help younger players mature.

From this snippet of an interview, DW sure sounded like he had a grasp of his assignments and reads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV66q6TyG60

Seriously Arvada? Are you being obtuse to be argumentative or do you really not understand.

OK, imagine this:
You own a restaurant.
It is your busiest night ever.
You have a cook decides he wants to quit.
Would you look at him differently if he finishes off his shift or if he walks out halfway through the dinner rush?

 

[deanvogs]

We have hashed and re hashed this a million times now. Arvada and PC I think you guys VASTLY overrate what DW was doing on the field when he was in the field. He clearly wasn't even close to KMM or Smith and clearly didn't deserve a starting spot, but he was playing as much as Iowa backup WR play. It is clear to see now why MV was getting time, it was easy to see why Powell was getting time. Maybe less easy to see why JH was getting time, but I think that was because he was the best blocking WR. DW hadn't separated yet, this is normal for kids playing in their first year trying to get up to speed on D1 football.

 

[kicker22]

There are two completely separate points to make:

1) kfootball screwed up and didn't play DW when he should have.
2) DW handled it immaturely.

However, without #1, you don't have #2. Capisce?

I do find it very interesting that so many Iowa fans are wishing JR well and never even considered him a quitter, when that is exactly what he did.

The difference is one quit midseason one didn't. One bailed on his team in the middle of a season the other did it during the offseason. While you may find interesting how fans wish JR well and not Willies, I find it incredible that you see no difference between the timing of their departures. I also see a key being JR transferring to finish his career with an opportunity to start somewhere during his last year of eligibility vs.Willies who wasn't even in the program for 2 full seasons. My opinion Willies was mentally weak and his opportunities for PT were in front of him, I simply don't understand the play me or else mentality coming from someone who wasn't even an upper classman.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

What did I say that needed links? Tell me which one of these requires a link?

1) KMM and Smith were clearly the starters and going to get the most playing time?
2) DW was getting playing time at WR along with Powell, Hillyer, and Vandeberg?
3) DW looked lost at the Purdue game, and ran multiple bad routes?
4) DW was limited with an injury?
5) my guess it is the part about what Morehouse and Docerman said. If that is he case go back and listen to their podcasts.

Here is the paragraph of your previous post that caused me to ask for a link. But, I see now that you're calling it your "guess," which is an assumption. Do you have a link to the podcast you heard them say these things?

deanvogs:

"Wow, speaking of re writing history. DW was getting playing time, he was behind the players who were clearly better than him (KMM and Smith) and he was part of a group of 4 other players rotating into the game (Powell, Hillyer, Vandeberg, and DW). During the Purdue game it was clear he didn't have a grasp of the O, as he ran multiple routes wrong and it was either Morehouse or Docherman who said they were on the sidelines at Purdue and he was asking MV and other WR where he was supposed to be etc. Then he got injured and was limited. While he was still limited he quit."