im a little worried...

[hawkdoctor]

I like how this roster is shaping up for 2012.

Seniors: May & Hubbard (if)
Juniors: Basabe, Marble, McCabe
Sophs: White, Oglesby, Olasani (if)
Frosh: Meyer, Woodbury, Gesell, and another PG

That still leaves us with one more ride to use now or next year. I'd go into the big ten with that roster.

 

[sd6365]

Just my two cents:
Recruiting and winning is not something that can be improved overnight especially in the positon Iowa basketball was in last year. Recruiting and winning are like the egg and chicken scenario and you have to build both of them simultaneously to succeed. McCaffery and staff are trying to build a program that kids will want to come to. For kids to want to come to Iowa they have to see that they can win. The first step McCaffery and staff needed to do is keep the current team stable and limit the exodus of players with McCafferey experience. For the most part they did that. Without another player added the current team experience and development that should automatically make for a better team next year. The second thing he needed to do is at least start getting Iowa to be considered by some highly sought after recruits and land some guys that can make the team better. He has done that by being highly considered by Guerror and Katenda and landing White, Oglesby and possibly Hubbard. We did not get Guerro and probably not Katenda but by being considered he has shown that he is making progress with recruiting. If the current team and recruits are better next year than this year, then instead of missing on both Guerro and Katenda we may get one of them. Then the year after that when our team is even better then we may get 2 players with that ability. When that happens then we start seeing expotential improvement in the wins/losses and tournament participation. Fran knows what he is doing by not just signing players to fill scholarships. When you sign a player you are basically committing that scholarship for 4 years. By signing someone who does not improve the team that could undermine his delicate balance of team improvement year over year and thus derail his improvement in wins and recruiting. With this philosophy, which in my mind is a very smart way to build a sustainable program, the win/loss progress will be slow early (year 1 and 2) but gain expotentially as we land higher quality recruits, develop players and execute Fran's entire system. Always remember when you start questioning Fran and staff (which is a very natural thing to do) that he has done this same process 3 times before and has learned and refined his strategy every time.

Keep the faith Hawkeye fans!!! Here is my future prediction for the program. I think when Basabe, McCabe and Marble are juniors this team will surprise some folks by being a top 5 Big Ten team and go to the NCAA. Then when they are seniors we will be back in the national spotlight vying for a Big Ten title and a Top 15 team nationally..... Then the program will start rolling with even bigger things ahead!!

 

[tm3308]

MN & ILL beat us because of their bigs... MN really schooled inside the paint...

We also weren't athletic enough to push the tempo against those teams. If we get forced into playing a half court game against teams with bigs like that, then we're in trouble. The key is that WE need to dictate the tempo of the game to our advantage.

 

[Husky28]

We also weren't athletic enough to push the tempo against those teams. If we get forced into playing a half court game against teams with bigs like that, then we're in trouble. The key is that WE need to dictate the tempo of the game to our advantage.

I would agree with that... the key will be able to push the tempo but be able to prevent teams from pounding it inside on us. I really don't care if we have a big that shoots bricks but can do a good job of containing the other team's bigs...

 

[CAARHawk]

I didn't forget Brommer and Archie. I expect guys to come in and play in front of them both. While both have shown some improvement, I just don't think it is enough to forgo playing your best 5. If Hubbard comes on board, he would be one of the 5. I would put that group as Mel, Hubbard, BC, Gatens, and whichever wing is best (White, Marble, May). If one of those wings develops into a constant 10+ point scorer, it would be huge.

If one of the wings did emerge, it would completely chang my thought about the team winning games though. I still wouldn't expect radical But, they would win at least a decent chunk of games based on athleticism alone. And another chunk on grit. But the more whispers I am hearing, the more I think it is a moot point.

 

[ISU]

I wouldn't worry about Fran.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Fran isn't going to waste a sholarship on someone if they can't make us better. My hope is Stoermer gets a ride next year (his last) if we still have one in the bank. Jordan gets a big thank you from Fran for walking on, 2010-2011 contributions, etc. It also allows the coaches to tell future invited walk-ons you can get a ride at Iowa if you work hard and contribute.

I'm not saying we bank one for Stoermer. I'm saying give it to him if there's one just sitting there.

 

[SirJamaLot]

Recruiting is clearly important,but that is not the entire bb program at Iowa.
You contend that winning next year is unimportant,because it will not impact recruiting the 2012 class,and once again you are saying that there is no life after November 15 in terms of Iowa bb and Fran's association with it. I disagree.

1. If Bryce goes down,and the Hawks win fewer games next year than this year,the program loses momentum,no matter who they sign in November.
Fan support will tail off,which is almost as important as stellar recruiting.

2. If Fran signs one juco or two,even this spring, we could have 3 schollys to give in 2013,including possibly a top 25 local player in Jok,exactly the kind of whale that Fran needs to land. Maybe you think Fran will be fired on Nov 16 of next year,but realistic fans know that he has a 5 year leash,minimum,so yes, 2013 will remain very important to Iowa bb and Fran.

3. Now, that said, I still think Fran knows what he is doing,and if he passed on Glover,who presumably could help out at the pg position behind Bryce, then he must be confident he can cover that position.
So, I will let it play out before any conclusions.

4. Winning breeds winning. That is why next year's performance on the court is important. We have a young team,and they need to learn how to win close games. They cannot wait for some new hotshot recruits in 2012 to come and show them how that is done. Basabe,Marble,McCabe,May,White and Oglesby are going to be around for 2-3-4 more years,and they need to see some rewards for their hard work,or they might bail themselves.

So,yes, next year matters. As a fan,I want to see wins on the court and in the recruiting battles ASAP!
Go Hawks!

+1

 

[hawkIhoops]

I think some kids have to take huge strides / exceed, not just meet, expectations for this team to get better without some significant additions. What exactly can we expect from May, McCabe, Marble, Archie and Brommer? These 5 averaged 5 ppg and 3 rbg and we lost Cole's 8 ppg and 6 rbg.

Fairly safe bet that we will get ~12 ppg from Gatens, Cartwright and Basabe, but I'm not sure where the rest of the points are going to come from. Hubbard (assuming he signs), Oglesby and White will certainly give us more depth, but it's asking a lot for newcomers to the big ten to assume prominent roles in year one. I would love to see the ex Dayton commit come on board so we can tell Olaseni to hit the road. Dude obviously doesn't want to be here, so I hope the staff moves on.

 

[HawkeyeRyno]

I think some kids have to take huge strides / exceed, not just meet, expectations for this team to get better without some significant additions. What exactly can we expect from May, McCabe, Marble, Archie and Brommer? These 5 averaged 5 ppg and 3 rbg and we lost Cole's 8 ppg and 6 rbg.

Fairly safe bet that we will get ~12 ppg from Gatens, Cartwright and Basabe, but I'm not sure where the rest of the points are going to come from. Hubbard (assuming he signs), Oglesby and White will certainly give us more depth, but it's asking a lot for newcomers to the big ten to assume prominent roles in year one. I would love to see the ex Dayton commit come on board so we can tell Olaseni to hit the road. Dude obviously doesn't want to be here, so I hope the staff moves on.

No way do we get either Dayton transfer. No chance. I say that because they would more likely go to Iowa State considering ISU recruited them out of high school to begin with and their new assistant is from Dayton and has a relationship with them. Iowa has nothing. Olaseni is our best chance at a big and he seems disinterested, otherwise, we bank that scholly for a 2012 recruit and go small again next season.

 

[sportstalent]

I think some kids have to take huge strides / exceed, not just meet, expectations for this team to get better without some significant additions. What exactly can we expect from May, McCabe, Marble, Archie and Brommer? These 5 averaged 5 ppg and 3 rbg and we lost Cole's 8 ppg and 6 rbg.

So, you are saying these five colletively averaged this total or they individually averaged this total?

If you averaged this out as a group, then that is still 25 ppg and 15 rpg, you add in the 36 ppg and that comes to 61 ppg and that is without Cole, so about Iowa's average ppg last year around 68.

So lets say White and Oglesby can replace Cole's production, which I would hope so. Then throw in two more recruits and they equal Cole's scoring production and Iowa wins how many more conference games? Wisconsin, MSU, OSU, Illinois...maybe two of those? Unpredictable, it is, we will never know.

One thing is this, Marble/McCabe/Basabe will be a year older, wiser, experienced and in better physical condition. Each of these players has the ability to increase their scoring averages by 1.5 times and Basabe should inch close to 10 rpg. It is not for certain that a HUGE stride has to be taken for Iowa to replace production and/or just get better. Iowa's best players will take steps forward.

Cartwright and Gatens are going to increase their numbers in the scoring department for 1. Cartwright is comfortable with Major college basketball and 2. Barring injury Gatens will be in stride from the beginning of the season, plus Oglesby and White being able to actually hit an open shot, Gatens gets more room.

May is a huge question mark right now, there is a lot about him that is good, but until he can handle the ball consistently, there will be only unfulfilled expectations. If and it is a big if, he can get his ball handling under control, he is a good shooter, then will also give others more open looks.

With the unknown of who Iowa is going to add, maybe we get one tomorrow, there will be more depth to turn too. More options on a deeper bench is a good thing, with a better chance of someone getting hot and stealing a victory or two because of it.

 

[Auggie]

I would be more worried if Caff was offering prospects just so we have bodies. That's one of the things that drove Iowa basketball into the ground to begin with.

What do you think signing marginal players in the Spring is?

 

[JHHawk]

What do you think signing marginal players in the Spring is?

You mean marginal players like Cartwright and Basabe?
Or Kentucky's Terrance Jones,John Wall and Brandon Knight?

Yea,only marginal players sign in the spring.

 

[Auggie]

I think he is clearly building with the next 5 years in mind, not just next year. With that said, they will be a better basketball team next year than this year, and will win more games. What he's doing isn't just random, or a "what do we do now" mentality. However, he's not going to lay out his plan for all of us to evaluate (and competitors to know), so it may appear random and disjointed to us. Time will tell if his plan will work, but based on the limited evidence so far (Basabe and Cartwright, the team improving as the season went along, a better style of basketball) I think it will.

What? If he is thinking about players 5 years from now than he has a bad plan and won't be here 5 years from now. Any college basketball coach that sits down for an interview with the AD and outlines his '5 year plan' wouldn't be hired. This is NCAA basketball we're talking about......not building a pyramid. No matter how far down this program has sunk it should not take 5 years to get it revamped and competitive again. A new coach needs to sell the fresh start and take advantage of the promise of change and being a part of the resurrection of a program. Successful college coaches can do this. The 'newness' is going to wear off next season and Caff will have to sell the program based on what he has done during his two seasons. That won't be easy.
The 2012 class can't be another bottom feeder class like this one. He has to get some players that can have some impact on the program. And not just players who appear to be good players on a 10 win team......I'm talking about players that come in and make you competitive within your conference......players that match up fairly with other conference players. That is the biggest concern for me.........that the Hawks are not able to go head to head with other Big Ten teams and win a recruiting battle (except maybe PSU). That has to change in the 2012 class.

 

[Hawkstrat]

that the Hawks are not able to go head to head with other Big Ten teams and win a recruiting battle (except maybe PSU). That has to change in the 2012 class.

You mean like Josh Oglesby, who held offers from Illinois, Minnesota, and Northwestern? Or Aaron White who had an offer from Northwestern, or maybe possibly like Hubbard, who has a Nebraska offer- I know he isn't in the bag yet and Nebraska is still official a Big 12 team.

Look, there is no reason to always assume the worst, I know Iowa is coming off of a prolonged down period and the recruiting process isn't going very quickly for Iowa, but they are getting quality players with Big Ten offers, and could very well land an important piece in a few hours. I'm not calling Hubbard a program changer, but he is a scorer who can rebound and pass and get to the line and will be a key component to next year's team- if he elects to come to Iowa.

Iowa will win at least 17 games next year. (Assuming Hubbard commits to Iowa)

 

[CAARHawk]

Things are really somewhere in the middle between the two of you. Josh's Illinois offer was pulled, so Fran didn't beat them. Also, Northwestern has never been to the NCAA tournament. So, throwing them in there as an example of beating a Big Ten team other than PSU is kind of silly.

That being said, White and Ogelsby look like they have the potential to play with other Big Ten players. However, I think people overestimate Ogelsby's early production. What people don't seem to be able to explain is whose minutes Og's is going to take and why he is an improvement over that player in year one?

 

[Hawkstrat]

"So, throwing them in there as an example of beating a Big Ten team other than PSU is kind of silly."


I really hope you don't reproduce.

Statement: The Hawks aren't able to beat Big Ten teams head-to-head in recruiting, except maybe PSU.

Counterfactual: The Hawks have in fact beaten Big Ten schools in this recruiting class, including Northwestern and Minnesota- I didn't know Illinois rescinded their offer in an effort to get a PG instead.

Northwestern is a Big Ten school not named Penn State, Minnesota is a Big Ten school not named Penn State, his original statement is false. You can't add qualifiers after the fact, plus Minnesota has won NCAA tournament games, so it doesn't even matter.

There is no middle ground here to cling to. He said something that wasn't true. Black and white.

If I say, there is nobody in Iowa named Sarah, and you show me someone named Sarah from Iowa, I can't refute that by claiming she is ugly. It doesn't follow, and a person might be retarded for even trying to make that rebuttal.

 

[CAARHawk]

Wow, if you want to hold everyone to that standard of precise language, you are going to have a fun life. But let's look at the spirit of both of your arguments.

He used PSU as an example of a team Iowa could beat players for. Now, did Josh or Aaron have PSU offers? No. So he must have been talking about Hubbard.

However, even holding him to precise language, if he said you could not beat a 5th grader from Grant elementary running, but you showed you beat a 4th grader from Grant running, would that disqualify his point? Because that is basically what you are saying when you throw in Northwestern to refute an argument that you have to beat better teams in the Big Ten than PSU.

Notice I didn't throw Minny in there. Because I am not quite sure where they stand right now.

Seriously, my point is that the position was somewhere between the two of you and I stand by that position.

 

[homes]

What? If he is thinking about players 5 years from now than he has a bad plan and won't be here 5 years from now. Any college basketball coach that sits down for an interview with the AD and outlines his '5 year plan' wouldn't be hired. This is NCAA basketball we're talking about......not building a pyramid. No matter how far down this program has sunk it should not take 5 years to get it revamped and competitive again. A new coach needs to sell the fresh start and take advantage of the promise of change and being a part of the resurrection of a program. Successful college coaches can do this. The 'newness' is going to wear off next season and Caff will have to sell the program based on what he has done during his two seasons. That won't be easy.
The 2012 class can't be another bottom feeder class like this one. He has to get some players that can have some impact on the program. And not just players who appear to be good players on a 10 win team......I'm talking about players that come in and make you competitive within your conference......players that match up fairly with other conference players. That is the biggest concern for me.........that the Hawks are not able to go head to head with other Big Ten teams and win a recruiting battle (except maybe PSU). That has to change in the 2012 class.

You missed my point, band-aids or long term cures is what I'm talking about. But you are correct, that 2012's class will be important. I'm sure Fran doesn't need to read this board to know that.

 

[burky247]

What do you think signing marginal players in the Spring is?

I think you missed the point. I'm not surprised.

First, not all players that are signed in the spring are marginal. In fact, you can get some great steals with spring signees just from circumstance. Whether it's because of coaching changes, late qualifiers, rebounding from earlier injuries, late development, and on and on.

Second, it is true that some of these spring signees abilities are inflated due to the fact that most of the classes prospects are already signed. That's my point. You have to be careful who you decide to give rides to. Just because a player is one of the top pg's available....and you need a pg....doesn't mean it's smart to offer him. Alford was guilty of this quite a bit. We would need a big and so he would throw a late offer at someone like Mario Gomez and kill a schollie for four years.

That's why I love Caff's philosophy. There were some pg's he probably could have signed. But he recognized that they didn't meet our long term needs and probably wouldn't have made us much better next season either. So we'll plug and play next season and work on getting a quality pg in 2012. Thus saving a scholarship and being able to meet other needs as well.