Illini shed dead weight...3 leave.

[blubberhawk]

You aren't advocating taking transfers are you? Everyone knows that doesn't work.

Worked fine for ISU..
5th place finishes in the Big 12 will always get whomever the coach is a $20,000,000 contract. Works especially well when a coach is able to get his hands on 60% of an "All BIG" team (White, Babb, and Korey L.)

The current Ill. transfers are not at quite that level. ISU might have to settle for a 6th or 7th place finish with that group.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Won two straight over those guys, when do they start competing with us again?

We haven't beaten Illinois in football bince 2007. They are now the football school and we're the basketball school.

 

[CyChamp]

Worked fine for ISU..
5th place finishes in the Big 12 will always get whomever the coach is a $20,000,000 contract. Works especially well when a coach is able to get his hands on 60% of an "All BIG" team (White, Babb, and Korey L.)

The current Ill. transfers are not at quite that level. ISU might have to settle for a 6th or 7th place finish with that group.

Consecutive NCAAs and a slew of top 100 recruits... seems to be heading in the right direction to me. But I guess it is silly to think that winning and qualifying for the tourney are good things!

 

[eyekwah]

It sure looks like these were Weber recruits that did not fit into Groce's (sp) basketball philosophy. I'm sure they are decent players that will be able to fall back to schools that earlier recruited them. It is in this situation that I do not think they should have to wait a year to play after transfer.

I watched Illinois a few times and I really wasn't impressed with Groce. He'll probably prove me wrong, but his bench behavior during the games was more of cheerleader than game manager. If he hopes to ape Ohio Stat and Matta, where he was an assistant, he'll need to learn to become a calming influence rather than a 6th man.

 

[eyekwah]

Consecutive NCAAs and a slew of top 100 recruits... seems to be heading in the right direction to me. But I guess it is silly to think that winning and qualifying for the tourney are good things!

Agree it "HAS" worked in the very short term (3 years). Like life or in any purchase there is no guarantee that it ALWAYS works. What I've learned is that sports is a cruel and vicious cycle. One day you are on top of the world and the next you're calling for people's heads to roll. Witness the Kansas fans' reactions losing to Michigan.

As for top 100 recruits, some are gold and some are iron pyrite. Again there is no guarantee that each one is as good as promised. You get to looking at some conferences and 5 or 6 teams will be loaded with several top 100 recruits and not make the tourney. Maryland is an example. They beat Duke twice this season.

I think it would be fair at this point to say the B12 was not as strong this year as in past years. This begs the question was ISU's tournament invite more a function of perception of the Big 12 leading up to the tournament selection or far superior evidence that the invite was warranted. One could classify Minnesota and Illinois in that same discussion.

 

[BryceC]

Do people think the selection committee are that stupid that they don't know the big 12 was down this year? Conference will probably be even more down next season but if Iowa State makes it at that time it will be because they did enough to warrant a bid, not because the committee is confused about what year it is in big 12 play.

 

[CyChamp]

Agree it "HAS" worked in the very short term (3 years). Like life or in any purchase there is no guarantee that it ALWAYS works. What I've learned is that sports is a cruel and vicious cycle. One day you are on top of the world and the next you're calling for people's heads to roll. Witness the Kansas fans' reactions losing to Michigan.

As for top 100 recruits, some are gold and some are iron pyrite. Again there is no guarantee that each one is as good as promised. You get to looking at some conferences and 5 or 6 teams will be loaded with several top 100 recruits and not make the tourney. Maryland is an example. They beat Duke twice this season.

I think it would be fair at this point to say the B12 was not as strong this year as in past years. This begs the question was ISU's tournament invite more a function of perception of the Big 12 leading up to the tournament selection or far superior evidence that the invite was warranted. One could classify Minnesota and Illinois in that same discussion.

All of those are valid, rational points, and I appreciate that.

It is simply hard to argue with the results thus far. Kickstart the program with transfers, then build with highly recruited high schoolers. I am not sure how anyone can criticize the results except for speculating, "But you are going to suck in the future", which is a pretty weak argument, IMO.

 

[blubberhawk]

Consecutive NCAAs and a slew of top 100 recruits... seems to be heading in the right direction to me. But I guess it is silly to think that winning and qualifying for the tourney are good things!

Winning what? ISU had basically the same record Iowa had.
5th place with a group of high level transfers that ISU will never see the likes of again.
The official league finish for ISU this year was worse than last.

5th place with (4) 5th year senior starters in a league that has now officially reinforced all of our opinions that the league really did suck this year.
Kansas probably would have made a serious run at a first division finish in the BIG. They actually looked better against the 5th place team from the BIG than I thought they would. Kudos to the Jayhawks and their nut smacking, cheap shot players.

 

[blubberhawk]

Agree it "HAS" worked in the very short term (3 years). Like life or in any purchase there is no guarantee that it ALWAYS works. What I've learned is that sports is a cruel and vicious cycle. One day you are on top of the world and the next you're calling for people's heads to roll. Witness the Kansas fans' reactions losing to Michigan.

As for top 100 recruits, some are gold and some are iron pyrite. Again there is no guarantee that each one is as good as promised. You get to looking at some conferences and 5 or 6 teams will be loaded with several top 100 recruits and not make the tourney. Maryland is an example. They beat Duke twice this season.

I think it would be fair at this point to say the B12 was not as strong this year as in past years. This begs the question was ISU's tournament invite more a function of perception of the Big 12 leading up to the tournament selection or far superior evidence that the invite was warranted. One could classify Minnesota and Illinois in that same discussion.

The Big 12 as a league is rarely strong. It is Kansas and the 9 dwarfs.
Kansas would never be able to run off 9 consectutive titles in the BIG, Big East, ACC, SEC, or even the PAC 12. it just would not happen. Year in and year out, Kansas has to carry the water for the Big 12.

 

[blubberhawk]

Do people think the selection committee are that stupid that they don't know the big 12 was down this year? Conference will probably be even more down next season but if Iowa State makes it at that time it will be because they did enough to warrant a bid, not because the committee is confused about what year it is in big 12 play.

Big 12 DESERVED 4 bids and received 5.

 

[BryceC]

Winning what? ISU had basically the same record Iowa had.
5th place with a group of high level transfers that ISU will never see the likes of again.

Iowa fans said the exact same thing when Scotty, Allen, and White left after last year. And that same record included more top 100 teams and some road/neutral victories. Not all schedules/wins are created equal. Surprised this needed said considering iowa fans have been trumpeting this all year.

 

[BryceC]

Big 12 DESERVED 4 bids and received 5.

Which team should have been left out? Teams get bids, not conferences.

 

[CyChamp]

Winning what? ISU had basically the same record Iowa had.
5th place with a group of high level transfers that ISU will never see the likes of again.
The official league finish for ISU this year was worse than last.

5th place with (4) 5th year senior starters in a league that has now officially reinforced all of our opinions that the league really did suck this year.
Kansas probably would have made a serious run at a first division finish in the BIG. They actually looked better against the 5th place team from the BIG than I thought they would. Kudos to the Jayhawks and their nut smacking, cheap shot players.

NCAA Tournament =Winning. It really is a simple equation. It is what all teams' goal is.

 

[sportstalent]

Which team should have been left out? Teams get bids, not conferences.

Oklahoma should never have been in the NCAA tournament, they proved it, just not a very good team.

I don't buy that they Committee doesn't look at conferences, not one bit.

 

[BryceC]

Oklahoma should never have been in the NCAA tournament, they proved it, just not a very good team.

I don't buy that they Committee doesn't look at conferences, not one bit.

By that standard, about 10 teams shouldn't have been in. Again, why them specifically, and who should have been in instead?

I don't doubt they do look at conferences. However to think they look at a conferences relative strength and decide only x number of teams should get in and put a hard cap on it is ridiculous.

 

[sportstalent]

By that standard, about 10 teams shouldn't have been in. Again, why them specifically, and who should have been in instead?

I don't doubt they do look at conferences. However to think they look at a conferences relative strength and decide only x number of teams should get in and put a hard cap on it is ridiculous.

It isn't about who I would have put in and Iowa wouldn't have been one of those teams.

The committee went by the RPI and road wins, not sure those are the two best ways to determine if a team belonged.

Also, the RPI No. 1 conference flopped in epic proportions, all the Pac 12 teams were done quickly and the one team in the Big 12 that was simply rewarded by beating Kansas lost miserably.

Teams that were competitive against good teams consistently were left out, if you are saying I think Iowa should go in, nope they shouldn't have, just as I said before.

The problem this year is you see a team like Oregon get a 12-seed when they are one of just 3 Pac-12 teams that showed enough of a pulse outside of conference to be in and they go the farthest. Injuries were not considered for them as the committee is allowed to and by insulting them further, they dropped the Ducks a line on Selection Sunday.

This committee did not have a clue about basketball, they looked at what was on paper, period. There is no possible way anyone thought that the MWC was the No. 1 conference, yet they all got pretty good seeds and ultimately, failed.

When people talked about "standards" that the committee had to live up to, or "let's see if they break tendency" like with a 28-win team that didn't belong, but no 28-win team was "ever" left out as reported and Gonzaga getting a No. 1 seed and the lowest No. 1 seed, but it was reported that "no No. 1 team in the poll had ever not been a No. 1 seed," so again they went by what was on paper, period.

I have never seen such an oddly seeded field in my time and I didn't really think it was too bad until looking back on it here in the end and thinking "how did...get that?"

There were just so many teams that were just in the wrong spots. The further away from Selection Sunday, the worse it looks.

 

[BryceC]

There were seeding problems and Oregon was certainly one of them. The committee also explained that as they wanted to keep them out west I thought.

NCAA selection is far from a perfect science. However, there are usually some talking heads afterward that really rail on the snubs. I don't recall one bit of that this year. While there were some seeding issues, there were glaring problems with all of the bubble teams, all of whom a decent case could be made for in light of the resumes.

 

[sportstalent]

There were seeding problems and Oregon was certainly one of them. The committee also explained that as they wanted to keep them out west I thought.

NCAA selection is far from a perfect science. However, there are usually some talking heads afterward that really rail on the snubs. I don't recall one bit of that this year. While there were some seeding issues, there were glaring problems with all of the bubble teams, all of whom a decent case could be made for in light of the resumes.

It ultimately came down to an awful bubble and the metrics of RPI and road wins showed neither is a true indicator of weather a team belonged in or not.

This committee had the agenda that those two metrics were their indicators. You have only one team of the four in the Final Four that is better than a 4-seed. What is funny is that Syracuse and Michigan were not great road teams during the year.

 

[brozley]

Thanks, so they really don't have a ton open then. The 2014 class is loaded period, but Illinois seems to have a load of players that can play in that class. Okafor, Alexander, White, Cunningham, Harris, Austin, Ulis and others I can't recall off the top of my head, Finke is another. Iowa was recruiting Peyton Allen and a couple of his AAU teammates, so yeah it is loaded.

I am going to get hammered for this, but with Tubby fired at Minnesota and thinking of the 2014 class, any chances Iowa can get back in the Tyus Jones sweepstakes? I had read Jones was really starting to warm up to the Minnesota coaches again.

I wonder if Fran is recruiting these Chicago studs. I've seen Izzo at several of local games over the years. Sam Thompson from Young and blackshear from Morgan Park are sophomores starting for final 4 teams. Both those HS teams are loaded with talent. Young has three D1 guys that will be big time impact players in college. Okafor (#1 jr. in USA), Peak (jam machine with sweet "j" and White (6'9' guard). No Iowa presence on coach row for public league playoffs or in state playoff games. IL making headway in Public League getting Simeon's starting guards this year.
Iowa successfully recruited a baseball stud (Hickman) and football stud (Spearman) from Simeon, now we need to get into their hoop program.

 

[GrandpaHawk]

I am sure Hoiberg is all over this.

Agree