If we miss the dance this year.....

[1977Hawkeye]

Fran has built up A LOT of good will with the rebuilding job, establishing an identity, and making it fun for the fans. He did all of this in the midst of a GREAT run for the B1G. Hell, last year’s team is probably 12-6 in the 2005-2009 era. It’s been really gradual improvement, but Fran has had some break-throughs with being ranked, ncaa tourney bid, recruiting Chicago, etc. Personally, I don’t think he deserves hot seat talk unless we miss the tourney and next year’s class is a flop, which would shock me.

Yeah, this is why I think it's ludicrous, at this point, to even talk about a coaching change or Fran being on the hot seat. I'd like to see where he can take the program from here.

That said, last year's collapse does concern me (it felt VERY Alford-esque, and was IMO a very big missed opportunity to make an impression nationally (and to boost recruiting. Drat.).. Most people probably don't care that Iowa was ranked #10 in January or whatever it was - it's where you finish that counts, particularly what you do in the NCAA Tournament. Making a Sweet 16 or beyond is a big attention getter.

I also feel that, to get beyond the program's current level, recruiting is going to have to improve. Gut feeling tells me that things have peaked (or close to it) given the amount of talent, and that the program is basically NIT/fringe-bubble material. I'd just like to see how far Fran can take us. If 2-3 more years go by and we're still not winning NCAA games (even if it's just a win or two and nothing more), then I'd support a change. Until then, I want to give the guy a chance.

I'd be pretty happy with Tom Davis level results - NCAA most years, with a win or two. I hope for more, obviously, but there comes a point where you need to realize that you are either satisfied with the results, or you are not. I am not satisfied with the current level of the program (no NCAA wins since 2001) but the program isn't all that far from a level where that would change for me. Just speaking for myself.

 

[DDThompson]

1) We push a guy out who makes the NCAA every year, because he doesn't get deep enough in the tournament
2) We push a guy out who just had a 3 seed in the NCAA tourney a year before
3) We fire a guy who buried the program
4) We are supposed to be happy about a guy who makes 1 NCAA tourney in 5 years.

It has come full circle in a bad way. We went from a program 15 years ago that wasn't happy with making the NCAA tourney every year.......to a fan base that now says we shouldn't aspire to do better than the NCAA tourney 1 time out of 5 years.

your point #4 and conclusion are skewed. You are putting ncaa tourney appearances as the standard while not putting the lichliter weight on the scale.

If point #3 is the anchor you claim in your own point, then point #4 has to be qualified. Youre not doing that. In effect youre putting your thumb on the scale to lift the lichliter weight to balance and then judging from there. I suppose a person can do that. Usually we say that that isnt fair.

 

[deanvogs]

your point #4 and conclusion are skewed. You are putting ncaa tourney appearances as the standard while not putting the lichliter weight on the scale.

If point #3 is the anchor you claim in your own point, then point #4 has to be qualified. Youre not doing that. In effect youre putting your thumb on the scale to lift the lichliter weight to balance and then judging from there. I suppose a person can do that. Usually we say that that isnt fair.

I'm not skewed at all. Sure I put weight on the fact he had to climb out of the Lick hole. That is why I haven't been saying this earlier, and I won't say anything at all if we get to the NCAA this year. It took Fran 4 years to turn around the program.....(Miles and Fred did it in 2 years), and I didn't complain, and those teams were in just as bad a shape as Iowa was after Lick.

IF WE DON'T MAKE THE NCAA THIS YEAR, to me that is 3 seasons in a row of underachieving. The '12-'13 team was a NCAA quality team, but was on the outside looking in. Last years team should have been a 4-6 seed, but we ended up a 12 seed playing our way in. This year's team is a NCAA quality team, and if we don't make it to the NCAA, that is a 3 year pattern of extreme underachievement.

 

[tm3308]

I can understand a fan thinking like this but it would be incredibly short sighted for an AD to. An AD needs to take into account a lot more than just the wins and loses. He needs to decide if the success, or lack there of, is sustainable.

That's were he got into trouble with Kirk's contract. He looked blindly at the wins instead of looking how he got them. 2009 was awesome but was it the kind of year that warrented a huhe extension? When you can barely beat UNI and Arkansas State, is winning that many games in a year sustainable?

On the flip side, is Fran's lack of success sustainable? He had a top 10 team put together that collapsed. Is that something that will happen every time? There's no way to answer for sure but as an AD would you really want to cut loose a coach that took us from the gutter to a top 10 ranking? In iowa that's not easy to do. Fran all but locked up a diamond in the rough that shined too soon and ended up in Kentucky. That kind of bad luck isn't sustainable.

If I were the AD I would definitely have my eyes open if we don't make the tourney. But I would also look at everything else and want to give Fran some leway for the success he has had with the setbacks that occurred.

1. Iowa's lack of success in close games under Fran has been going on for several years now. We can seemingly never get over the hump against above average teams when it's close. Last year wasn't just an aberration in that regard.

2. How sustainable is finding diamond in the rough players? The sports are different, I'll grant you, but Ferentz rode that train to (the apparent) end of the line.

I'm not advocating for Fran to be fired by any means. But if we fail to reach the tournament this year and next year, then we need to go in a different direction, IMO. Can things get worse? Sure. But let's not pretend that this is the realistic peak of what can be achieved at Iowa.

 

[PCHawk]

1. Iowa's lack of success in close games under Fran has been going on for several years now. We can seemingly never get over the hump against above average teams when it's close. Last year wasn't just an aberration in that regard.

2. How sustainable is finding diamond in the rough players? The sports are different, I'll grant you, but Ferentz rode that train to (the apparent) end of the line.

I'm not advocating for Fran to be fired by any means. But if we fail to reach the tournament this year and next year, then we need to go in a different direction, IMO. Can things get worse? Sure. But let's not pretend that this is the realistic peak of what can be achieved at Iowa.

1. We actually did really well in close games 3 years ago so Fran established that he could coach close games then. The last 2 years did not go well so there are 2 possibilities. One is that Fran got lucky 3 years ago and the last 2 years is the norm for him. Two is that we relied on our best player (which most teams do) to win close games and he was unsuccessful. I'm hoping it was the second possibility for obvious reasons. Now that Marble is gone we will see. We're off to a better start already.

2. It depends on how hard a coach wants to look. I'm of the opinion that Kirk has gotten lazy with recruiting and believes too much in his "we develop players" mantra. There is a big difference between getting player that is ranked as a 3 star because they are a late bloomer or have a hole in their game that can be fixed, than a player that is ranked there because they are who they are and aren't going to get better. I think Fran knows that difference and I think Kirk used to but is too content to rely on his developing skills.

I think that the players up to Woody's class is Fran's "first wave" of players. They were who Fran could realistically get because of where we were. If we can't get over the hump of being a bubble team, I'm hoping it's because those players are still here. His next wave of players are the players that are freshmen now and next year's class. If in a couple years, those players haven't shown that they can bring us to the next level (or haven't been recruited over) I will be ready to concede that this is Fran's ceiling.

 

[PCHawk]

That PCHawk is an idiot.

 

[BlackGold57]

After 5 years, he should be let go. have your been watching the last 20 games.

 

[Skeets77]

Coaching players at a top tier competitive Big 10 level to win games is one thing. Getting them to come to Iowa is another. I guess they go hand in hand. How we play on the court is a direct extension of the coaches personality, and we all can see Fran's persona up to this point. He is in a daze, too focused on keeping his *hit together and not loosing it. You get punched in the face, you get angry, you get up and punch back and attack. It's a mess, plain and simple.

 

[lightning1]

In year #5, you should have 13 guys on the roster that YOU recruited. 13 guys that YOU chose to be on your roster, for the purpose of competing for a BIG title. Forget the NCAA tourney. If you can't finish in the top half of the BIG conference in year # 5, it's on YOU (Fran). If we finish 7th or lower in the BIG conference, then I say it's time to pull the plug.

 

[PCHawk]

That PCHawk is an idiot.

I have mixed feelings that this post received 2 thumbs ups.

 

[deanvogs]

I have mixed feelings that this post received 2 thumbs ups.

You shouldn't have mixed feelings. If Iowa doesn't make the NCAA this year, Fran should go period, end of story. The product on the court this year is garbage, and I can't see how anyone could defend it at this point. I was at the game and calling the shot that Iowa was gonna get blown out in the second half tonight. When UNI is 10x more athletic and talented than you, then it is time to go........

 

[Playmaker]

jo1228 said.......This is only his 5th year. Give him time to get his system and players in place. Lick left us in a very bad situation. Turn arounds take more time. Nobody can do it in a couple of years.

What??? 5 years is a LONG time....and nobody can do it in a couple of years??? ISU has done it in a couple of years about 3 times already in the last 10 years!!!

 

[deanvogs]

Everyone in this thread defending Fran and this garbage program needs to apologize to my azz right now. This team doesn't have a prayer to make the NCAA, and next years team is gonna be even worse than this years team. Fran is in over his head and it is embarrassing. When some freaking nerd looking dude (Miles) and a coach without one second of head coaching experience (Fred) are running rings around you, that is when you know you are a joke.

 

[linus19]

After 5 years, he should be let go. have your been watching the last 20 games.

I have to agree with the last 20 games comment. This garbage has totally carried over from the debacle that was the ending to last season. Fran did a good job of getting Iowa out of the crater left by Lick, but he doesn't have what it takes to sustain a sucessful program at this level. His lack of recruiting is Exhibit A.

 

[linus19]

Everyone in this thread defending Fran and this garbage program needs to apologize to my azz right now. This team doesn't have a prayer to make the NCAA, and next years team is gonna be even worse than this years team. Fran is in over his head and it is embarrassing. When some freaking nerd looking dude (Miles) and a coach without one second of head coaching experience (Fred) are running rings around you, that is when you know you are a joke.

Embarrassing is right. Tonight was absolutely embarrassing. UNI - UNfreakingI - owned us tonight. Iowa made THREE baskets in the second half. It took them like what, 16 minutes to fiinally score their 10th point of the second half? That's clown $--t!

 

[deanvogs]

Embarrassing is right. Tonight was absolutely embarrassing. UNI - UNfreakingI - owned us tonight. Iowa made THREE baskets in the second half. It took them like what, 16 minutes to fiinally score their 10th point of the second half? That's clown $--t!

Fran sh!t was over last year when his team completely and totally tanked down the stretch. When you have a 4-6 NCAA talent on your team, and you coach them up to get a 12 seed play in game, that is f*****. It is embarrassing the way all the Hawk fans are sticking up for Fran. Get me a nerd like Tim Miles, or a freaking coach who had never coach a second of BB at any level and they can outproduce Fran in single year.

 

[jacknicholson]

That PCHawk is an idiot.

Sez who, Bub.....

 

[tweeterhawk]

The only way Fran's seat will be even close to warm, is if the team fails to sniff the bubble this season and next. I don't think that will be a problem.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This team isn't sniffing anything this year except the opponents' jockstraps as they fly over them for rebounds, blocks and uncontested jumpers. This isn't even an NIT team. The B1G is going to brutal. Fran should be gone this year.

 

[deanvogs]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This team isn't sniffing anything this year except the opponents' jockstraps as they fly over them for rebounds, blocks and uncontested jumpers. This isn't even an NIT team. The B1G is going to brutal. Fran should be gone this year.

If Iowa doesn't make the NCAA (which I don't see how they could at this point), Fran should absolutely be gone. They have 4 losses and they have only played 5 quality opponents. Even if Iowa goes 9-9 in conference and wins against N. Florida, that is a 14 loss team (BTT loss as well), and now way do they even sniff the bubble. Even if they get to 10 wins, does the committee take a 13 loss team? I'll be happy to eat my words if we make it cause that means we played awesome in the B1G.

 

[hockalot]

At the end of the day a team is what it's record says it is. Lasts years team was a fringe NCAA team, that went 2-9 in games decided by 2 possessions or less. It was NOT a top 10 team, it was a fringe NCAA team, cause you look at the entire body of work, not just 1/2 or 2/3 or 9/10, but the ENTIRE body of work. Fran has had 1 team that was a surefire lock for the NCAA tourney in 5 years now, and that almost slipped away. I'm sorry, but that simply isn't getting it done. 5 years is all the time a football coach should get, a BB coach should get 3 years is all. It is sooooo much easier to turn around a BB program than it is a football program, as you only need a player or 2 to do so.

I actually kind of felt this way after year 3 to be honest, that was a team that was good enough to be a NCAA team, but they didn't get it done. I was patient, cause I realize year 4, he had a pretty loaded team, but they really let last year slip away. Yet I totally understand that as well, with what Fran was going through with his son. Now in year 5, once again, this is a team that could/should make the tourney. If he once again doesn't make it, in my mind that is 2 teams (this years and '12-'13 NIT team) that should have made it, but didn't, and the '13-'14 team underachieved big time with the finish they had.

I get that not many agree with me on this. I had actually not even wanted to go here and actually say anything.....then I figured why not? I'm not a negative guy, I realize we have a ton of time left this year, and I'm not convince this isn't a NCAA team, but I'm also not convinced it is. The goal is the NCAA tourney, and it is about results.....I'm out of "Almosts" come year 5. No more "almost" getting to the NCAA. No more "almost" getting a top recruit. In year 5 the almosts should be a think of the past, and it should be about results. For me as a fan, if we aren't a NCAA team at the end of this year, I have no faith that Fran can get it done in years 6 and beyond.

I loved Fran, but have to say, It is business. I agree.