I know Sunday was awful, but then I watched some game from the Lick era.....

[QuadCityHawkeye]

I suddenly felt 110% better about the program. Yes we lost to two teams that aren't great last week, but my God I was reminded how horrible Iowa basketball got under Lick. I won't deny Lick inherited a mess but he made it worse and I saw again with my own eyes how bad this team once was. They never had a chance in over half of the games played once the ball was tipped.

I was mad as hell at Fran yesterday, but he has brought this program a long ways from the depths of Hell the Black and Gold was once in. Iowa is actually competitive again and can play with pretty much anyone in the nation. I agree things could be better but I also don't want to be quick to run a guy out of town who has made leaps and bounds compared to what he inherited, which was much worse than the state when Lick came to town.

We all know Fran needs to recruit better and I do think this next class is pretty good. We also know the Hawks really need to make the NCAA's this season and I still think they can. I can be mad at the players and the coach, but if you ever want to know what despair is like, pop in pretty much any game from the Lick era and be reminded that Iowa Basketball was about as close to bottoming out as we've ever seen in our lifetime. It was the Bob Cummings era all over again on the hardwood.

Go Hawks!

 

[hawkeye4life68]

Good God. Maybe we can rename Carver to the FranDome for all he's done for Iowa basketball? He's brought Iowa back from the depths of Black and Gold hell? BFD. There are about a zillion coaches who could have done that. Just shows you how epic of a whiff Barta made on Lickloser and was grounds alone to be fired.

The question is whether Fran is or can take us to the next level. There's ZERO evidence that's gonna happen so I guess you'll have to continue to heap the praise on him for doing a truly average job and be all geeked up over Iowa simply being "competitive" again. Might wanna take a look first though at the number of double digit losses we have had this year before throwing that word around so loosely.

 

[DDThompson]

So what.

Fran promised a running exciting style of bball. There have been more than a handful of lick-esque ugly boring hate-scoring games this season.

 

[Gohawks123]

LOL. I love how low the bar has gotten.

We have a top 15 athletic budget. Any coach that can't get us to the tournament consistently needs to be shown the door.

 

[DDThompson]

We had a coach that did and was and have not been near his legacy since.

 

[Gohawks123]

We had a coach that did and was and have not been near his legacy since.

Yep. Shows how inept our athletic department is. One NCAA tourney win in what, a decade and a half?

 

[STILLBUSTER]

Nothing like a solid rationalization, bolstered by a low threshold of relativity, to pick up the spirits.

QC, you know the truth. Why you gotta spend so much time and energy trying to sugar coat it?

 

[HawkeyeHypnosis]

I said it in another thread, there's no AD or President that would fire Fran if he took their school from where we were to where we are now. Many didn't even think Iowa would be in position for the NCAA Tourney before the season with Marble gone. I knew from the start of the year we were going to be inconsistent and that's exactly what they've been. No one can turn around what Lick did overnight.

 

[PCHawk]

At this point the "next level" is having an elite program. We are pretty much on the same level as 40 other schools that shuffle around and take turns having good years. There are only about 10-15 programs that are on the next level.

People can argue that we aren't on that level yet but this will be the 3rd year in a row where we are. 2 years ago we were towards the bottom of that level. Last year we were at the top before we fell apart and ended up in the middle. This year we should finish somewhere around the middle again.

If we go after another coach, there is about a 90% chance we will end up exactly where we are now (because this level is the most likely scenario for this program). The problem is, there is probably about a 10% chance we will drop a level and around a 1%chance we will get to the next level. Fran probably has just as good of chance of getting to the next level as some random, yet to be named coach.

 

[Gohawks123]

At this point the "next level" is having an elite program. We are pretty much on the same level as 40 other schools that shuffle around and take turns having good years. There are only about 10-15 programs that are on the next level.

People can argue that we aren't on that level yet but this will be the 3rd year in a row where we are. 2 years ago we were towards the bottom of that level. Last year we were at the top before we fell apart and ended up in the middle. This year we should finish somewhere around the middle again.

If we go after another coach, there is about a 90% chance we will end up exactly where we are now (because this level is the most likely scenario for this program). The problem is, there is probably about a 10% chance we will drop a level and around a 1%chance we will get to the next level. Fran probably has just as good of chance of getting to the next level as some random, yet to be named coach.

You must have a different definition of "good year" than most of us. What good years have we had recently?

We haven't made the tournament since 06? Sorry, play in games don't count.

 

[hawkeye4life68]

Sorry, play in games don't count.

No one is as disgruntled with the overall landscape of the main revenue sports than I am but Iowa did make the tournament last year. The first four are not "play in games." The field was expanded to 65 then 68 and the first round is now played in Dayton the Tuesday and Wednesday after Selection Sunday. The NCAA record books show and will always show Iowa being a participant in the 2014 NCAA Basketball Tournament.

If you don't like how we ended up in Dayton after rising to 10th in the polls last year I agree with you.
If you don't like that - at best - it's looking like we end up in Dayton again I agree with you.

If you think Iowa didn't make the tournament last year and only participated in a play in game you don't really know what you're talking about.

 

[Gohawks123]

No one is as disgruntled with the overall landscape of the main revenue sports than I am but Iowa did make the tournament last year. The first four are not "play in games." The field was expanded to 65 then 68 and the first round is now played in Dayton the Tuesday and Wednesday after Selection Sunday. The NCAA record books show and will always show Iowa being a participant in the 2014 NCAA Basketball Tournament.

If you don't like how we ended up in Dayton after rising to 10th in the polls last year I agree with you.
If you don't like that - at best - it's looking like we end up in Dayton again I agree with you.

If you think Iowa didn't make the tournament last year and only participated in a play in game you don't really know what you're talking about.

If they expanded the field to 96 teams would it count as a tournament appearence? How about 128? I think you get my point.

 

[hawkeye4life68]

If they expanded the field to 96 teams would it count as a tournament appearence? How about 128? I think you get my point.

The NCAA Tournament started as an 8 team field. Has every team since then, including all the National Champions who would not have made it in as an 8 team tourney, not participated in the NCAA Tournament then by your definition?

 

[Gohawks123]

The NCAA Tournament started as an 8 team field. Has every team since then, including all the National Champions who would not have made it in as an 8 team tourney, not participated in the NCAA Tournament then by your definition?

Do you label a play in game loss as a successful season?

 

[hawkeye4life68]

Do you label a play in game loss as a successful season?

I don't label last year a successful year at all. Not when you rise to 10th in the polls then free fall in the second half of the conference season and get bounced by Northwestern in the B1G tourney.

The point that you fail to realize is that Iowa made the tournament. It has not been since 2006 since we've been there. I didn't like being in Dayton at all but we made it. The record books show that and always will despite the spin you are trying to put on it.

 

[DDThompson]

Yep. Shows how inept our athletic department is. One NCAA tourney win in what, a decade and a half?

I shudder every time I read that record of fraility.

 

[Gohawks123]

I don't label last year a successful year at all. Not when you rise to 10th in the polls then free fall in the second half of the conference season and get bounced by Northwestern in the B1G tourney.

The point that you fail to realize is that Iowa made the tournament. It has not been since 2006 since we've been there. I didn't like being in Dayton at all but we made it. The record books show that and always will despite the spin you are trying to put on it.

Oh it wasn't spin. I understand completely that in the eyes of Fran (who received a big bonus) and the NCAA and CBS (who just wants more games for more money) that Iowa made the tournament. The record books will say the same. I just reject it in my mind. And any real basketball purest would do the same.

As Jon Miller said in his article last year "It sure didn't feel like Iowa made the tournament."

 

[DDThompson]

I said it in another thread, there's no AD or President that would fire Fran if he took their school from where we were to where we are now. ... . No one can turn around what Lick did overnight.

this exactly. Or even two or three overnights.

 

[Thawki]

If they expanded the field to 96 teams would it count as a tournament appearence? How about 128? I think you get my point.

Just because you are wining doesn't mean you are factually correct in stating we didn't make the tournament last year. That tournament has expanded over the years, just as the other poster said. If you want to complain, you can. But don't change history to make your case. It only proves you have a weak case if it isn't based in fact.

We went to the NIT championship game two years ago and I believe most reasonable people would say that team at least met expectations, based upon the talent level Fran inherited and the general state of the program when he took over. Last year we made the NCAA Tournament if you asked fans before the start of the year if the team would have met expectations for the season by making the Tourney, most would have said yes.

That doesn't mean the way the season ended didn't leave a bad taste in people's mouths. But don't be disingenuous by having expectations at the start of the season and then when we meet expectations change them from what they originally were so you can cry and whine.

This season isn't over yet. What were your expectations at the start of this season? Maybe it would help if you went on record here and indicated what would constitute a successful season for you. What would really help would be if you could point to a post from before the season that showed your expectation then. I am not sure I would believe your answer without that, but maybe I won't have a choice.

For the record. I am not sure anyone would say we didn't meet expectations, realistic expectations in Fran's first two years. So, if that is the case, and we met them the year we went to the NIT title game and then even if inyour mind we didn't meet them last year, then Fran met expectations three out of his first four years. While last year was in fact a colossal meltdown at the end, what if they had won just one more game and not been one of the last four in? Then would we have met your expectations? If so, then we just barely missed your expectations last year.

This year is not over so I will not take complaining at this point and let it hold any weight, at least not just yet. If you take knee jerk reactions out of the equation, most reasonable people would say Fran met expectations in at least three of his first four seasons, with the jury still out on this season. Is that now a firable record?

Well?

 

[LaoHawk]

Just because you are wining doesn't mean you are factually correct in stating we didn't make the tournament last year. That tournament has expanded over the years, just as the other poster said. If you want to complain, you can. But don't change history to make your case. It only proves you have a weak case if it isn't based in fact.

We went to the NIT championship game two years ago and I believe most reasonable people would say that team at least met expectations, based upon the talent level Fran inherited and the general state of the program when he took over. Last year we made the NCAA Tournament if you asked fans before the start of the year if the team would have met expectations for the season by making the Tourney, most would have said yes.

That doesn't mean the way the season ended didn't leave a bad taste in people's mouths. But don't be disingenuous by having expectations at the start of the season and then when we meet expectations change them from what they originally were so you can cry and whine.

This season isn't over yet. What were your expectations at the start of this season? Maybe it would help if you went on record here and indicated what would constitute a successful season for you. What would really help would be if you could point to a post from before the season that showed your expectation then. I am not sure I would believe your answer without that, but maybe I won't have a choice.

For the record. I am not sure anyone would say we didn't meet expectations, realistic expectations in Fran's first two years. So, if that is the case, and we met them the year we went to the NIT title game and then even if inyour mind we didn't meet them last year, then Fran met expectations three out of his first four years. While last year was in fact a colossal meltdown at the end, what if they had won just one more game and not been one of the last four in? Then would we have met your expectations? If so, then we just barely missed your expectations last year.

This year is not over so I will not take complaining at this point and let it hold any weight, at least not just yet. If you take knee jerk reactions out of the equation, most reasonable people would say Fran met expectations in at least three of his first four seasons, with the jury still out on this season. Is that now a firable record?

Well?

GOLD STAR! X10