I don't understand the "we can't expect more" mentality

CJHawkeye

CJHawkeye

Well-Known Member
I don't understand the general mentally capping a team's success and I don't understand stuff like ranking Iowa 9th among Big Ten basketball jobs and basically saying that's all you get. You get a coach that is willing to take the 9th best job in the Big Ten.

Any program's history of success has to start somewhere. Florida won back to back NCs in 06-07. Did no one tell them that's not allowed because they weren't a historical basketball power? If you control for the Billy Donovan era, Iowa has more NCAA tournament success than Florida. But that didn't prevent them from hiring a championship level coach.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Iowa should just hire a different coach and win an NC. But conversely I think the idea that there is a cap on how good of a coach you can get is fundamentally flawed. If that were the case how did these teams that won multiple championships get their FIRST championship coach?
 
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CJHawkeye said:
I don't understand the general mentality mentally capping a team's success and I don't understand stuff like ranking Iowa 9th among Big Ten basketball jobs and basically saying that's all you get. You get a coach that is willing to take the 9th best job in the Big Ten.

Any program's history of success has to start somewhere. Florida won back to back NCs in 06-07. Did no one tell them that's not allowed because they weren't a historical basketball power? If you control for the Billy Donovan era, Iowa has more NCAA tournament success than Florida. But that didn't prevent them from hiring a championship level coach.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Iowa should just hire a different coach and win an NC. But conversely I think the idea that there is a cap on how good of a coach you can get is fundamentally flawed. If that were the case how did these teams that won multiple championships get their FIRST championship coach?
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Florida didn't just decide they were going to hire a great coach, then went out and did it. They needed to hire a coach, did their best job in finding one, and it worked out great. The really good up and coming coaches have to end up somewhere. A lot of it is random luck where they end up.

If Wisconsin waited one more year to hire a new coach, and Ryan wasn't around that year, they could be Illinois right now for all we know. They needed a coach at the right time and fell into the right guy. That takes a lot of luck and good timing. Then they got even more lucky that he decided to make Wisconsin his destination job. Unlike Lute.

The point is, good coaches show up on the scene, end up at a random school, then 50 different power 5 fan bases say "if so and so could do it, why can't we?" There always has to be a handful of schools that are the "so and so" at the time. We were in the 80s. Hopefully we will be again soon.
 
The propaganda machine is designed to convince people to want less. To expect less. At other schools the propaganda machine encourages fans to want more. To expect more.
Bump Elliot is proof that with the right kind of leadership relevance can be had.
Vivian Stringer (HOF)
Dan Gable (HOF)
Fry (HOF)
Lute (HOF)
Just some of his hires. Iowa had even less of a history to sell during his time and yet he found excellence over and over.
Bump had Michigan on his resume
Barta has North Dakota State Univ.
JFC two men separated by Galaxies. It's not hard to figure out what went wrong. Whoever hired Barta should be water-boarded.
 
PCHawk said:
Florida didn't just decide they were going to hire a great coach, then went out and did it. They needed to hire a coach, did their best job in finding one, and it worked out great. The really good up and coming coaches have to end up somewhere. A lot of it is random luck where they end up.

If Wisconsin waited one more year to hire a new coach, and Ryan wasn't around that year, they could be Illinois right now for all we know. They needed a coach at the right time and fell into the right guy. That takes a lot of luck and good timing. Then they got even more lucky that he decided to make Wisconsin his destination job. Unlike Lute.

The point is, good coaches show up on the scene, end up at a random school, then 50 different power 5 fan bases say "if so and so could do it, why can't we?" There always has to be a handful of schools that are the "so and so" at the time. We were in the 80s. Hopefully we will be again soon.
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You have to have an opening to be in that magic spot to catch lightening in a bottle. I'm sure part of my frustration is spillover from the obsession of retaining Kirk through multiple downturns that a lot of fan bases would't have accepted. Its like Barta thinks we get a trophy for fewest coaches over X years. I don't get it.
 
Iowa could've had Bobby Stoops but ****ed it up. Iowa could've kept Davis around for a few extra years but ****ed it up. It's less about catching lightening imo and more about common sense. Iowa has had a dwindling amount since Bump retired. And each year it gets worse. The crew running the show remind me of D.C. Everyone is too comfortable cuz accountability ain't part of the picture.
Two ways for a coach to get fired at Iowa
1) be an angry lesbian
2) player revolt lead by a beloved legacy
:(
 
Yep, that's why I've said Barta first. I don't want him hiring ANY other coaches. He's a bean counter, not a leader of an athletic department. Even the apologist in chief Jon Miller admits that.
 
CJHawkeye said:
You have to have an opening to be in that magic spot to catch lightening in a bottle. I'm sure part of my frustration is spillover from the obsession of retaining Kirk through multiple downturns that a lot of fan bases would't have accepted. Its like Barta thinks we get a trophy for fewest coaches over X years. I don't get it.
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Kirk has a knack for always doing just enough to keep the heat off.
 
Joshbrown said:
The propaganda machine is designed to convince people to want less. To expect less. At other schools the propaganda machine encourages fans to want more. To expect more.
Bump Elliot is proof that with the right kind of leadership relevance can be had.
Vivian Stringer (HOF)
Dan Gable (HOF)
Fry (HOF)
Lute (HOF)
Just some of his hires. Iowa had even less of a history to sell during his time and yet he found excellence over and over.
Bump had Michigan on his resume
Barta has North Dakota State Univ.
JFC two men separated by Galaxies. It's not hard to figure out what went wrong. Whoever hired Barta should be water-boarded.
Click to expand...

I thought it was fan's expectations that kept the program down?
 
I don’t believe in this we can’t be like Duke or Kentucky mentality either . Pre coach K we had a better history than Duke . If it wasn’t for Bill Russell Iowa would have a national title in basketball .
 
Joshbrown said:
Iowa could've had Bobby Stoops but ****ed it up. Iowa could've kept Davis around for a few extra years but ****ed it up. It's less about catching lightening imo and more about common sense. Iowa has had a dwindling amount since Bump retired. And each year it gets worse. The crew running the show remind me of D.C. Everyone is too comfortable cuz accountability ain't part of the picture.
Two ways for a coach to get fired at Iowa
1) be an angry lesbian
2) player revolt lead by a beloved legacy
:(
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Josh hits the nail on the head here. It is a common sense problem. What does Alford, Lick, and Fran all have in common? Well, besides not having stellar teams.....they were are all mid-major coaches coming into Iowa. Iowa needs a major level coach who has had successful experience coaching in major level conferences. Mr. Davis was the last one to coach here. Does not get talked about much, but Mr. Davis actually finished 1st in the Big East Conference at Boston College and went to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 there prior to coaching at Stanford and Iowa.

Iowa needs a coach with a resume something like that coming in. Even if it is a retrend coach looking to get back into the game. Iowa can get a retrend coach.
 
Now some might say, well Ralph Miller or Lute came from lesser conferences and that worked out. That is not to say it can't......but I think after three of these situations (if Fran were to ever get fired or leave)....I think Iowa should put their hands on someone who has shown they know what they are doing at this level.
 
Another thing that probably does not get talked about much. Fran has never, ever made a Sweet 16 at any place he has been the head coach. That is including 14 years prior to Iowa. Even the Jerk Hair and Clueless Lick made the Sweet 16 prior to coming to Iowa City,

Let that soak in.
 
HaydenHawk56 said:
Another thing that probably does not get talked about much. Fran has never, ever made a Sweet 16 at any place he has been the head coach. That is including 14 years prior to Iowa. Even the Jerk Hair and Clueless Lick made the Sweet 16 prior to coming to Iowa City,

Let that soak in.
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The groupies are gonna pounce on you for that one.
 
HaydenHawk56 said:
Josh hits the nail on the head here. It is a common sense problem. What does Alford, Lick, and Fran all have in common? Well, besides not having stellar teams.....they were are all mid-major coaches coming into Iowa. Iowa needs a major level coach who has had successful experience coaching in major level conferences. Mr. Davis was the last one to coach here. Does not get talked about much, but Mr. Davis actually finished 1st in the Big East Conference at Boston College and went to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 there prior to coaching at Stanford and Iowa.

Iowa needs a coach with a resume something like that coming in. Even if it is a retrend coach looking to get back into the game. Iowa can get a retrend coach.
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There is no reason Iowa can't hire a proven P5 commodity. I would never rule out an up and comer, but someone who has proven themself on the big stage is the preferred choice.
Arizona had their worst season ever, fired their coach and replaced him with Lute Olson. They went after a proven winner.
Ohio State hired Urban Meyer.
The problem at Iowa is at the first sign of winning the AD locks the school into a contract it can't buy out. It happened first with Alford and then they did the same thing with KF not long after. The school has the attitude that coaches get years off. All that does is kill momentum and make it impossible to build something relevant. There needs to be a flame under the coaches seat from day one until they leave.
South Carolina hired Spurrier and in his first 10 years he had 3 top 8 finishes just like Kirk Ferentz. But then things went downhill and he "retired". South Carolina didn't owe Spurrier a lifetime contract for what he did. They understand that coaching is a business and treat it that way. Iowa is sentimental rather than business-like. It's the "logic" of a pubescent girl.
 
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Joshbrown said:
The propaganda machine is designed to convince people to want less. To expect less. At other schools the propaganda machine encourages fans to want more. To expect more.
Bump Elliot is proof that with the right kind of leadership relevance can be had.
Vivian Stringer (HOF)
Dan Gable (HOF)
Fry (HOF)
Lute (HOF)
Just some of his hires. Iowa had even less of a history to sell during his time and yet he found excellence over and over.
Bump had Michigan on his resume
Barta has North Dakota State Univ.
JFC two men separated by Galaxies. It's not hard to figure out what went wrong. Whoever hired Barta should be water-boarded.
Click to expand...

Do you know who Bump Elliot's first two football hires were? Or his first b-ball hire?

Point is, it's more than just an AD making the "right" hire...
 
HaydenHawk56 said:
Another thing that probably does not get talked about much. Fran has never, ever made a Sweet 16 at any place he has been the head coach. That is including 14 years prior to Iowa. Even the Jerk Hair and Clueless Lick made the Sweet 16 prior to coming to Iowa City,

Let that soak in.
Click to expand...
I know I like to mention it. Check out year 4 and 5 at the North Carolina school he was at when it was just his recruits. They were god awful
 
tksirius said:
The groupies are gonna pounce on you for that one.
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You gotta be more specific with the groupie term. I assume you mean the groupies that like Fran and not the groupies that hate him.

It is a pretty pointless stat tho. There are too many variables for it to be a big deal. For instance, Alford winning one big game one year does not matter much. In fact, I would say the main reason most mid major coaches flame out is too much stock is put into one small tournament run.
 
PCHawk said:
Florida didn't just decide they were going to hire a great coach, then went out and did it. They needed to hire a coach, did their best job in finding one, and it worked out great. The really good up and coming coaches have to end up somewhere. A lot of it is random luck where they end up.

If Wisconsin waited one more year to hire a new coach, and Ryan wasn't around that year, they could be Illinois right now for all we know. They needed a coach at the right time and fell into the right guy. That takes a lot of luck and good timing. Then they got even more lucky that he decided to make Wisconsin his destination job. Unlike Lute.

The point is, good coaches show up on the scene, end up at a random school, then 50 different power 5 fan bases say "if so and so could do it, why can't we?" There always has to be a handful of schools that are the "so and so" at the time. We were in the 80s. Hopefully we will be again soon.
Click to expand...
I haven’t seen anybody say it is easy or a sure thing that a coaching hire works. That would be silly. But you point out that a coach can make all the difference between a good program and a bad one. The best programs in college have to get the right coaches still.
That is the exact argument as to why you make a change every few years if it isn’t the one. If you dated everyone for 8 years hoping they would change to be the one before you finally concede that they aren’t marriage material. You’ll probably end up as a creepy middle aged single person.
 
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