Huge Choke

We have come close to playing for and winning the National Championship.....

As juniors, the "Fabulous Five" won the Big Ten outright and eventually finished fourth in the nation.[SUP][17][/SUP] In 1956, as seniors, they again won the Big Ten outright and finished second in the nation only to Bill Russell and the undefeated San Francisco Dons.

Connie Hawkins would have put us in contention for the Championship if we hadn't dropped the ball and legally represented him for bogus point shaving. A known gambler said Hello to Connie at MSG during the Christmas break. That was it. He was a freshmen and ineligible to play varsity sport......

During Hawkins' freshman year at Iowa, he was a victim of the hysteria surrounding a point-shaving scandal that had started in New York City. Hawkins's name surfaced in an interview conducted with an individual who was involved in the scandal. While some of the conspirators and characters involved were known to or knew Hawkins, none – including the New York attorney at the center of the scandal, Jack Molinas – had ever sought to involve Hawkins in the conspiracy.
Despite the fact that Hawkins could not have been involved in point-shaving (as a freshman, due to NCAA rules of the time, he was ineligible to participate in varsity-level athletics), Hawkins was kept from seeking legal counsel while being grilled by New York City Police Department detectives who were investigating the scandal. Hawkins never admitted to any wrongdoing.

As a result of the investigation, despite never being arrested or indicted, Hawkins was expelled from Iowa. He was effectively blackballed from the college ranks; no NCAA or NAIA school would offer him a scholarship. NBA Commissioner J. Walter Kennedy let it be known that he would not approve any contract for Hawkins to play in the league. At the time, the NBA had a policy barring players who were even remotely involved with point-shaving scandals. As a result, when his class was eligible for the draft in 1964, no team selected him. He went undrafted in 1965 as well before being formally banned from the league in 1966

In 1969, Hawkins hit the ground running in his first season with the Suns, when he played 81 games and averaged 24.6 points, 10.4 rebounds and 4.8 assists per game. In the final game of his rookie season, Connie had 44 points, 20 rebounds, 8 assists, 5 blocks and 5 steals. The Suns finished third in the Western Conference, but were knocked out by the Los Angeles Lakers in a great seven-game series in which Hawkins carried the Suns against a team that had future Hall of Famers Wilt Chamberlain, Elgin Baylor and Jerry West. For the series, Hawkins averaged 25 points, 14 rebounds and 7 assists per game.

Ralph Miller's 1969/70 team almost made the final four and could have won the whole thing. Problem was Artis Gilmore getting his fifth foul late in the second half and continuing to play. Pembroke Burroughs won the game with a last second basket. Of course that was during John Wooden's run.....

Lute Olsen's 1980 team could have won the championship if Louisville's Roger Berkman hadn't put Ronnie Lester on the floor shooting a layup, and out of the game. He had an almost season long injury in the last minutes against Dayton when we were up by 20 points.....

Lastly Mr. Davis's team was the best in the country his first year in my opinion. They lost to UNLV mainly because Kevin Gamble received a questionable foul early in the second half and had to sit a lot of the half. The Seattle Post-Intelligencer sports writer's headline said: Did the Best Team Lose, and he mentioned the Kevin Gamble foul as being the main reason.

Might have been our last chance to play for a National Championship, however I have a lot of faith in Fran.....

There is a reason we are considered the tenth best basketball program according to ESPN and Sagarin.....

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf
 


Um, okay...there really isn't as big a gap as you think because the Fab 5 never existed.

I heard something on the radio today that Iowa snapped the longest drought in the Big Ten without having a 20 win season this year.

Talent is one thing, didn't Johnny Orr coach at Michigan?

Not quite sure how you're defending your beloved Wolverines' underachieving ways with these 3 points.
Particularly: "...the Fab 5 never existed." Are you saying they don't count because they got to MI as a result of nefarious recruiting? Then, they couldn't win a title even with cheating?

About the second point, of course IA has had a 20-win drought. They had little talent under TL. That makes the overachievement in the past 3 years: 11-20 to 20+-11, all the more impressive.

What about Johnny Orr? Are you suggesting he started MI's underachievement tradition?
 






Both NBA players' sons and Burke blow it from the line in the last minute. Don't think it's Belein's fault, just what I've come to expect from MI. The team motto should be:
"Michigan, finding ways to do less with more since our founding."

Iowa would be in the tournament if they hadn't done the same thing. That is, miss free throws in late minutes of the games. It happened almost ever time we lost.
 


Not quite sure how you're defending your beloved Wolverines' underachieving ways with these 3 points.
Particularly: "...the Fab 5 never existed." Are you saying they don't count because they got to MI as a result of nefarious recruiting? Then, they couldn't win a title even with cheating?

About the second point, of course IA has had a 20-win drought. They had little talent under TL. That makes the overachievement in the past 3 years: 11-20 to 20+-11, all the more impressive.

What about Johnny Orr? Are you suggesting he started MI's underachievement tradition?

I am saying coaching has a lot to do with just having talent, yeah they cheated with the Fab 5, but Fisher won with kids that weren't his and I am also saying that the roots of the great coaches ever to coach at Michigan don't run too deep. Who has been really a great coach for them?
You can't associate Michigan with greatness for basketball, there really is no reason to actually. Football yes, basketball not so much. Belien is the perfect coach as he has been an overlooked guy his whole career so not being in the spotlight on campus is not a big deal for him.
Michigan is my wife's beloved team, Iowa is mine and always will be, actually it is one of the things my wife really doesn't like about me...so sad.
 


The Fab 5 didn't win a title. Seriously, that was an immense waste of talent. A similar situation is playing out now.

If the Fab Five underachieved it was because they didn't win a B10 title, not because they didn't win a national title. I know it was before you're time, but it was really hard to win a national title in the early 90's. There were actually quality, complete college basketball teams unlike today. That UNC team they lost to in '93 was damn good and the '92 Duke team featured one of the greatest college players ever in Laettner, an All-American pg and a future college POY in Grant Hill. This wasn't like Kentucky's freshman sweeping their way through mediocre competition in the tournament last year.
 


I am saying coaching has a lot to do with just having talent, yeah they cheated with the Fab 5, but Fisher won with kids that weren't his and I am also saying that the roots of the great coaches ever to coach at Michigan don't run too deep. Who has been really a great coach for them?
You can't associate Michigan with greatness for basketball, there really is no reason to actually. Football yes, basketball not so much. Belien is the perfect coach as he has been an overlooked guy his whole career so not being in the spotlight on campus is not a big deal for him.
Michigan is my wife's beloved team, Iowa is mine and always will be, actually it is one of the things my wife really doesn't like about me...so sad.

Maybe the lack of coaching has something to do with it but that just supports my original point: MI is a chronic underachiever in BB. Today was just a typical example. Their administration obviously spends the money on FB, not BB. Steve Alford's classic example of a FB school.

BTW, my condolences on your wife's choice in teams. It must be hell around your house for you during FB season.
 


Maybe the lack of coaching has something to do with it but that just supports my original point: MI is a chronic underachiever in BB. Today was just a typical example. Their administration obviously spends the money on FB, not BB. Steve Alford's classic example of a FB school.

BTW, my condolences on your wife's choice in teams. It must be hell around your house for you during FB season.

Yesterday had nothing to do with history...it had everything to do with making a couple of free throws.

Well FB season for her outside of the Rich Rod era has been pretty good for her...not sure what you mean by that...it isn't like they have ever been an overhyped team and then struggled to even make a bowl...I am no fan of Iowa football never have been.
 


Maybe the lack of coaching has something to do with it but that just supports my original point: MI is a chronic underachiever in BB. Today was just a typical example. Their administration obviously spends the money on FB, not BB. Steve Alford's classic example of a FB school.

BTW, my condolences on your wife's choice in teams. It must be hell around your house for you during FB season.


I'm not sure why everyone is so down on Michigan. Sure, they missed FTs at the end of the game, and are kind of flaky at times, but consider this:

Official Men's Basketball Roster - MGOBLUE.COM - University of Michigan Official Athletic Site

Glenn R III Freshman
Spike A Freshman
Trey Burke Soph
Mitch McGary Freshman
Nik Stauskas Freshman
Horford RS SO


They may not have conquered the world this year, but they are arguably as young, if not younger, than Iowa. They will be DAMN good next year.
 


I'm not sure why everyone is so down on Michigan. Sure, they missed FTs at the end of the game, and are kind of flaky at times, but consider this:

Official Men's Basketball Roster - MGOBLUE.COM - University of Michigan Official Athletic Site

Glenn R III Freshman
Spike A Freshman
Trey Burke Soph
Mitch McGary Freshman
Nik Stauskas Freshman
Horford RS SO


They may not have conquered the world this year, but they are arguably as young, if not younger, than Iowa. They will be DAMN good next year.

Burke is gone after this year.

Hardaway is more than likely gone as well.

Wouldnt surprise me to see one of McGary or GR III to leave as well.
 


Burke is gone after this year.

Hardaway is more than likely gone as well.

Wouldnt surprise me to see one of McGary or GR III to leave as well.


Eh, maybe. I can see Burke leaving.

Hardaway...maybe.

You think the two freshman are going to declare for the NBA? I don't. Who knows, though.
 


Eh, maybe. I can see Burke leaving.

Hardaway...maybe.

You think the two freshman are going to declare for the NBA? I don't. Who knows, though.

GRIII is a borderline lottery pick in most mock drafts, despite disappearing against most good teams, I think he leaves.
 


Eh, maybe. I can see Burke leaving.

Hardaway...maybe.

You think the two freshman are going to declare for the NBA? I don't. Who knows, though.

I said one of the two freshman wouldnt surprise me in leaving.

IIRC, Hardaway has "tested the waters" his first 2 years. I would be surprised if he stays.
 


Burke almost left last year. He's almost certainly gone. I don't think Hardaway has played especially well late in the season. My guess is he will go but I think it's a mistake. Robinson III could go (based on reports) but it would be a huge mistake IMO. He isn't close to ready for the NBA...can't even play on the road in the Big Ten yet.
 


Burke almost left last year. He's almost certainly gone. I don't think Hardaway has played especially well late in the season. My guess is he will go but I think it's a mistake. Robinson III could go (based on reports) but it would be a huge mistake IMO. He isn't close to ready for the NBA...can't even play on the road in the Big Ten yet.

I don't think it would be a mistake for Hardaway to go this year, he's not going to get much better than this, it's a weak draft, might as well see if he can get that first round guaranteed money. He's never going to be more than a bottom of the rotation guy in the NBA any way. Playing another year in college, isn't going to change his NBA potential.
 


I don't think it would be a mistake for Hardaway to go this year, he's not going to get much better than this, it's a weak draft, might as well see if he can get that first round guaranteed money. He's never going to be more than a bottom of the rotation guy in the NBA any way. Playing another year in college, isn't going to change his NBA potential.

I was thinking about how he's playing...didn't think it all the way through. I agree with your arguments. He should go this year...and almost certainly will.
 




4 Final Fours. Don't they have at least 3 championship games? .......OK.

Two tainted final fours and two tainted nc appearances don't do it for me...maybe that is enough for you. It doesn't make me associate them as being a historically great program.
 


Two tainted final fours and two tainted nc appearances don't do it for me...maybe that is enough for you. It doesn't make me associate them as being a historically great program.

Ok, then take those away. Still pretty good results.
 




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