No not as a freshman sorry. He won't play enough I don't think to do that. I kinda flipped what I meant in mid thought on him. ADD... I'll be surprised if he plays much more than what Dailey does now his freshman year. Maybe a little more but not much
How will Pat McCaffery compare to Wieskamp?
- Thread starter IowaTeddy
- Start date
Let's assume Dailey is a great guy and outstanding teammate.
What, exactly, does he bring to the table for winning basketball at Iowa, this year and next?
A body... Break glass in case of injuries. Maybe he'll improve some. Between now and his SR yr he could improve a lot. Hard telling
SteveGarvey1
Well-Known Member
Good defense. Better than most on the team.
If so, he should play a lot more.
Agree with some that Patrick’s game is Baer+. From that standpoint, he’ll fill a need as Baer is graduating. But he certainly could use more strength.
Agree that JoeT is a step in the right direction for filling defensive and penetrating abilities at the point. However, experience is definitely a factor in our turnaround this year. Hence, Dailey will be deep in the bench but he could still be valuable.
In other news, as much as I like Pemsl’s intangibles, he’s not big enough to play post on P5 teams that want to finish in the top half of their leagues. He’s not skilled or quick enough to play forward. Unless CP’s picking up some major skills this offseason, Nunge’s upside is much higher. He and Pemsl were played out of position last year. The problem is, Nunge was played at the 3-4 and he’s really a 4-5 or even 5-4. While Pemsl was played at the 4 when he’s really a 5, where he’s too short to be effective consistently, especially now that he’s slimmed down.
Cook could come back if he is committed to developing his outside shot and furthering his defensive improvement at Iowa. If he’s got the patience for college life, it’s probably his best all-around option.
JoeW will be the star with Garza supporting if Cook doesn’t return. If he does have the guts for sharing the spotlight, Cook and Iowa could be really special.
I always notice when Nunge walks out onto the floor during timeouts and pregame (in dress clothes) - he looks massive. Maybe legitimately 7' ? He also looks like a big, broad shouldered guy, and from what I've seen, he has really good athletic ability (jumping, explosiveness, etc.). I'm really excited to see what he can do on both ends of the floor.
There's been a lot of chatter about Iowa's need for a PG with athleticism, quickness, aggressive play, etc. (going back to Dolph's comments earlier this year...). I'm excited for what Joe T will bring, hopefully filling this role. But imagine what an athletic, energetic, versatile 7'0" post who can fly up and down the court will do for the team next year !?
Intrigued to think if Garza and Nunge could play at the same time. Or, if/when Garza gets into foul trouble, we can bring in Nunge for a change of pace, without sacrificing any size.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
There was some people on here saying reportedly he’s a legit 7 feet tall now. I agree he has the frame in the shoulders to put on some very good weight. I recall before the start of his freshman season RK saying its amazing how well he can move his feet and run for a guy of that height. Heck Fran tried to play him at the 3.
I’m not sure he’s an explosive leaper but I don’t think he really has to be. He’s got a really good outside stroke and good handles. As you noted I think he fits perfectly as a 4 or 5 in Fran’s system on both ends. In terms of his basketball ceiling it’s probably higher than any current Iowa player, but that doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee it materializes.
I’ve been a big Nunge supporter and I’m excited to see what he looks like next year.
I would push back on that last sentence. Pat is long and skilled, but definitely based on athletic ability Pat is probably more athletic than Joe is, but you're right Joe is a better shooter. Pat can throw it down and block shots with his length and athletic ability. Will probably play the 3/4 depending on weight.
If I was to project my desired rotation for next year....
I would say Cook leaves for some kind of pro deal (Europe, G League, etc.), Dailey transfers to a school he can feature on similar to Ellingson to Drake type deal (pending on if he can grad transfer or not), and PMac redshirts.
PG-JBo and CMac (also dependent on what he decides with baseball as I think he inevitably will switch at some point)
SG-Moss and Touissaint (think he and CMac would switch positions if this is the case)
SF-Wieskamp and Fredrick
PF-Nunge and Pemsl (Pemsl apparently has been working on being more of a stretch 4, and this is where he played against ISU this year)
C-Garza and Kriener (shades of Woodbury/Olaseni combo)
If in the wild case CMac switches to baseball full-time I would take PMac's RS and slide the second unit up a spot and place PMac in behind Wieskamp. 10 man rotation is I think as deep as a coach can juggle players so hopefully the projected players leaving above do happen.
I would say Cook leaves for some kind of pro deal (Europe, G League, etc.), Dailey transfers to a school he can feature on similar to Ellingson to Drake type deal (pending on if he can grad transfer or not), and PMac redshirts.
PG-JBo and CMac (also dependent on what he decides with baseball as I think he inevitably will switch at some point)
SG-Moss and Touissaint (think he and CMac would switch positions if this is the case)
SF-Wieskamp and Fredrick
PF-Nunge and Pemsl (Pemsl apparently has been working on being more of a stretch 4, and this is where he played against ISU this year)
C-Garza and Kriener (shades of Woodbury/Olaseni combo)
If in the wild case CMac switches to baseball full-time I would take PMac's RS and slide the second unit up a spot and place PMac in behind Wieskamp. 10 man rotation is I think as deep as a coach can juggle players so hopefully the projected players leaving above do happen.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Joe can throw it down to. I guess it depends what you think makes up athleticism. Pat can probably jump higher. To me body control is a factor as is strength. You mention length, but it’s been reported that Joe has a 7’ wingspan, and as I noted in another thread today Pat’s wingspan measured at 6’6 at the team USA tryout.
To me I think they are pretty close in terms of athleticism. I know @PCHawk would take Joe.
I think the McCaffery Bros want to play together for at least a year. If Cook stays, Pat may RS. If he goes, I think Pat definitely plays. I’m expecting Connor to start slow in baseball because he’ll be getting there late. If he comes on strong as the season goes on, they both might play next year even if everyone comes back. Connor has been called the 7th most draftable prospect in the B1G in baseball and he hasn’t even played a game. That doesn’t sound like a guy who will be here through his eligibility. Do think the odds are he will continue to be a backup in basketball his whole Iowa career because of this as well. Pay attention PG prospects.
Exactly. I'm sure Toussaint was partially sold on being the man his sophomore year on. My bet is that Connor tries to graduate before he moves on though. I'm not sure how far he is through his degrees, but once he finishes, he's gone. If he graduates early, that's after this next year. If he graduates on time, then we'll have 2 season's of the McCaffery boy's playing together.
Explosive might be the wrong word. My point is really centered around defense. Think about the talent level of Iowa big men and the type of recruits we typically sign. We REALLY need our big men to play early and often and get meaningful minutes in game. This is how they learn, develop, and get comfortable, on both ends of the floor. When our young bigs get into serious foul trouble, they get taken out of the game and it seems that their development stalls. This happened to Woodbury and he couldn't really ever shake it.
Garza is already lightyears ahead of Woodbury offensively. But he gets into serious foul trouble too. I'm hopeful that Nunge has the footwork and athleticism (body control) to stay out of foul trouble and get real minutes
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
My expectation is that Nunge will be our best defensive Big man next year regardless of Cook’s decision. Kriener gives good effort but is just a touch slow.
Nunge with his height and ability to move his feet is very versatile on defense. He can cover the corner in our zone but can also defend taller players at his height. If he gets switched onto a guard late in the shot clock he should be able to at least challenge them.
RobHowe
Administrator
Here's what Fran had to say about Patrick today at his press conference:
Q. Kind of off topic, Patrick becoming West High's all-time leading scorer, is that a proud moment for you? Connor I think is third --
FRAN McCAFFERY: He's third now, yeah. Patrick, passed him about 10, 12 days ago. You think about it, his journey was a little different. I think you're proud any time your child does anything special like that. But under his circumstances, it was just a lot different.
Looking back, it seems like it was yesterday. It was five years ago. But his freshman year, he was up and down. He was on a really good team. I think that benefited him. But his numbers were, as a lot of freshmen are, up and down, 14 one game, then he wouldn't play as much or play as well. He was trying to figure it out. He was a skinny kid. But just kept listening to Coach Bergman and the older guys, his brother and Devonte.
He was around some pretty good players while he was at West, and I think that really shaped him. Fortunately he had some really good AAU experience with his Barnstormer teammates and then also his D-I Minnesota teammates.
It was an exciting night for us, but more importantly for him, and I think Glen Worley has been great. They've been in contact with each other, and going back and forth, and that's great to see another Hawk. We're thrilled for him.
Q. What do you see for him at the college level? Is he a guy that could come in and impact right away?
FRAN McCAFFERY: He clearly has the ability to do that. The only difficulty he'll have is how strong can he get, will he be physically ready. His game is clearly ready, but we'll see where he is physically.
Q. I mean, at 6'8" -- even in the Big Ten, his quickness, it's going to help him.
FRAN McCAFFERY: Yeah, exactly, and he'll continue to get better as he gets stronger, but he can shoot it, he can drive it, he can pass it, put it on the deck, he can block a shot. The physicality of this conference in particular is challenging for anybody. But for any freshman in particular -- if we can get him up to a decent weight, he'll be ready to go.
Q. When you watch his games, do you compartmentalize between parent and future coach?
FRAN McCAFFERY: Probably, yeah. I think parent first always. When you're watching him play on the AAU circuit and you're out there evaluating other players, you're figuring out who are we going to sign, who are we going to look at in the next class and the next class, who did we lose, what do we need, now you're looking at him, okay, can he step in, what role can he have. Obviously first of all, is he good enough, and then a lot of times you recruit players that are enough enough but they don't fit for any particular reason, positionally, based on who you lose and who you have back, you don't want to stockpile a position. We have a need for that. Nicholas Baer graduates and we have a need for his skill set. He is a versatile guy. He's more of a hybrid, which is kind of the way the game is going. The 6'6" to 6'9" player that kind of plays every position.
Look at this weekend; you need a little more bulk and girth than maybe another team you might play. So you know, he can play the 4, he can play the 3, he can play the 2, he can bring it down. He's got really good feel. And I think his experience at West High and in the summer, he's been in winning programs his whole life. He's won, and that's what you want. You want guys who understand how to win.
Q. I'm assuming players get here different levels defensively and probably different training defensively. One thing from watching West High a lot, I know you don't play defense there, no matter who you are, you're not going to play. How much does that help him coming to you?
FRAN McCAFFERY: It helps greatly. They really stress defense at West High, and Coach Bergman has always done that. There's times when at the high school level the best player will rest a little on defense and save himself for offense. Patrick has a tendency to do that sometimes. When he wants to lock down defensively, he's really good at it. He can slide his feet laterally against a quick guy. He can space his man. He can contest. He doesn't go for unnecessary fakes, and he uses his strength to his advantage, and he rebounds in traffic. Tthe skills that he's been taught are what he needs when he gets here.
Q. Kind of off topic, Patrick becoming West High's all-time leading scorer, is that a proud moment for you? Connor I think is third --
FRAN McCAFFERY: He's third now, yeah. Patrick, passed him about 10, 12 days ago. You think about it, his journey was a little different. I think you're proud any time your child does anything special like that. But under his circumstances, it was just a lot different.
Looking back, it seems like it was yesterday. It was five years ago. But his freshman year, he was up and down. He was on a really good team. I think that benefited him. But his numbers were, as a lot of freshmen are, up and down, 14 one game, then he wouldn't play as much or play as well. He was trying to figure it out. He was a skinny kid. But just kept listening to Coach Bergman and the older guys, his brother and Devonte.
He was around some pretty good players while he was at West, and I think that really shaped him. Fortunately he had some really good AAU experience with his Barnstormer teammates and then also his D-I Minnesota teammates.
It was an exciting night for us, but more importantly for him, and I think Glen Worley has been great. They've been in contact with each other, and going back and forth, and that's great to see another Hawk. We're thrilled for him.
Q. What do you see for him at the college level? Is he a guy that could come in and impact right away?
FRAN McCAFFERY: He clearly has the ability to do that. The only difficulty he'll have is how strong can he get, will he be physically ready. His game is clearly ready, but we'll see where he is physically.
Q. I mean, at 6'8" -- even in the Big Ten, his quickness, it's going to help him.
FRAN McCAFFERY: Yeah, exactly, and he'll continue to get better as he gets stronger, but he can shoot it, he can drive it, he can pass it, put it on the deck, he can block a shot. The physicality of this conference in particular is challenging for anybody. But for any freshman in particular -- if we can get him up to a decent weight, he'll be ready to go.
Q. When you watch his games, do you compartmentalize between parent and future coach?
FRAN McCAFFERY: Probably, yeah. I think parent first always. When you're watching him play on the AAU circuit and you're out there evaluating other players, you're figuring out who are we going to sign, who are we going to look at in the next class and the next class, who did we lose, what do we need, now you're looking at him, okay, can he step in, what role can he have. Obviously first of all, is he good enough, and then a lot of times you recruit players that are enough enough but they don't fit for any particular reason, positionally, based on who you lose and who you have back, you don't want to stockpile a position. We have a need for that. Nicholas Baer graduates and we have a need for his skill set. He is a versatile guy. He's more of a hybrid, which is kind of the way the game is going. The 6'6" to 6'9" player that kind of plays every position.
Look at this weekend; you need a little more bulk and girth than maybe another team you might play. So you know, he can play the 4, he can play the 3, he can play the 2, he can bring it down. He's got really good feel. And I think his experience at West High and in the summer, he's been in winning programs his whole life. He's won, and that's what you want. You want guys who understand how to win.
Q. I'm assuming players get here different levels defensively and probably different training defensively. One thing from watching West High a lot, I know you don't play defense there, no matter who you are, you're not going to play. How much does that help him coming to you?
FRAN McCAFFERY: It helps greatly. They really stress defense at West High, and Coach Bergman has always done that. There's times when at the high school level the best player will rest a little on defense and save himself for offense. Patrick has a tendency to do that sometimes. When he wants to lock down defensively, he's really good at it. He can slide his feet laterally against a quick guy. He can space his man. He can contest. He doesn't go for unnecessary fakes, and he uses his strength to his advantage, and he rebounds in traffic. Tthe skills that he's been taught are what he needs when he gets here.
I only said that not as a knock to Joe, because I think he's plenty athletic enough, but a positive on how athletic I think Patrick actually is. He was dunking in the 8th grade I think. There are some baseline drives that look very juicy for a highlight dunk that I could see Pat throwing where Joe just scores. That's totally fine with me I will take points any day of the week. I will never compare the two as far as basketball skills as I will love having both of them in the program except on things like length, athletic ability, etc.
Great post Rob, this just tells me that they're going in with an open mind for PMac. If he can bulk up to an appropriate weight (appropriate according to Fran not us on this board), then he will play. Also liked the way Fran talked about how yes he's my kid, but that doesn't mean really anything when it comes to playing time. He thinks PMac can help the team, and they'll decide what that means when he gets on campus.
