How to get JW into the game and scoring??

U

uihawk82

Well-Known Member
It is a question as there are various options. I noticed they had JW at the low block a few times to try to get him the ball since other teams have had quicker, smaller guys hounding him on defense.

Is it worth it to try to set up some special offensive sets for JW early in the game or just stay with the regular offense?

I like the idea if a shorter guy is guarding him for JW and Garza to screen inside-out for each other and to take turns on the low block in a possession and if nothing comes up swing it to the other side for GArza again.

I think have JW crash the offensive boards to try to get some put backs might help. And set up a couple early screen situations to try to get him to catch while open and hit a jumper.
 
I think JoeW needs to come off the bench and play at the two spot when Fredrick needs a rest. I also think he needs to be constantly moving without the ball.
 
Yes, the moving without the ball that others have mentioned. I have to say I havent focused in on him and his movement on offense, which some people have said is offensive movement.

But if he is stagnant and hanging around the 3 line then yes have him cut thru the lane now and then and post up low.

Is JW 6 ft 6 inches or 6'8" like he was listed last year? or right in between? Anyway, he can help himself by getting a few more offensive rebounds and put backs and I know the ball needs to bounce right.
 
Likely he s out there to pull a big defender away from the bucket. To get Joe scoring more..

1 Conner score more as the leave him alone.
2 Find another Big so he can match against a 2/3.
3. As good as Conner is at passing he passes more for assists inside. To set Joe up more, Conner needs to move toward bucket and set Joe up to receive and shoot.

4. What do you guys miss that the real voters see in Joe?
 
Taken from what I posted in the other thread.

"Fran and staff need to take measures to help him get out of the slump. A coach can do various things like trying to get the player to the rim to get fouled and to the line. With Wieskamp I'd maybe try the curl cut to him to get him going or maybe a back door play to get him involved. This would maybe loosen him up a bit and help his confidence and outside shot." -- MelroseHawkins
 
HawkGold said:
Likely he s out there to pull a big defender away from the bucket. To get Joe scoring more..

1 Conner score more as the leave him alone.
2 Find another Big so he can match against a 2/3.
3. As good as Conner is at passing he passes more for assists inside. To set Joe up more, Conner needs to move toward bucket and set Joe up to receive and shoot.

4. What do you guys miss that the real voters see in Joe?
Click to expand...

You think he locked up a 3rd team by the way he played in February? The real voters saw the exact same thing we saw. That's why they dropped him from a 2nd team lock to a 3rd team. He played nothing like a 3rd team player the last month. And that hurts really bad since he's a boarderline 1st/2nd team player.
 
HawkGold said:
Likely he s out there to pull a big defender away from the bucket. To get Joe scoring more..

1 Conner score more as the leave him alone.
2 Find another Big so he can match against a 2/3.
3. As good as Conner is at passing he passes more for assists inside. To set Joe up more, Conner needs to move toward bucket and set Joe up to receive and shoot.

4. What do you guys miss that the real voters see in Joe?
Click to expand...

Well done ... in a thread asking about Joe W, you managed two mentions of Connor needing to do something better. :)
 
Robowe said:
Well done ... in a thread asking about Joe W, you managed two mentions of Connor needing to do something better. :)
Click to expand...

Joe gets too much grief. Go back to Kevin Boyle. The guy wasn't really very good but filled a role elevated by those around him. Joe gets a lot of attention by everyone but here.

No doubt Conner has fueled LG s season. One of the pt guard duties is to get the ball to players in a position to do it by their strengths. Get the ball to Joe about chest to chin hi and he scores. CM doesn't do that as well as Garza s passes. It's due to lack of driving. Lack of drawing defenders

Sorry the truth hurts. Joe and Conner don't mix well. It's not a choice but lack of penetration and fishing where he can step into the shot. JB could shoot w o stepping in. Joe didn't just change. Some games obviously it works. My guess is that Joe has his best games when he s matched up with special K.
 
Some ideas:

FavorableFittingHydatidtapeworm-small.gif


giphy.gif


MediumLiquidGreyhounddog-size_restricted.gif


AnotherFirmBantamrooster-max-1mb.gif


source.gif
 
Last edited:
HawkGold said:
Joe gets too much grief. Go back to Kevin Boyle. The guy wasn't really very good but filled a role elevated by those around him. Joe gets a lot of attention by everyone but here.

No doubt Conner has fueled LG s season. One of the pt guard duties is to get the ball to players in a position to do it by their strengths. Get the ball to Joe about chest to chin hi and he scores. CM doesn't do that as well as Garza s passes. It's due to lack of driving. Lack of drawing defenders

Sorry the truth hurts. Joe and Conner don't mix well. It's not a choice but lack of penetration and fishing where he can step into the shot. JB could shoot w o stepping in. Joe didn't just change. Some games obviously it works. My guess is that Joe has his best games when he s matched up with special K.
Click to expand...

JoeW has had dozens of open looks from the exact same spots as he had in December through January. He's not making them, losing confidence in his shot to the point where he's not even looking to take them, trying to drive / attack - which he's not strong enough to finish in a congested lane - resulting in easily getting bumped off, stumbling or getting stuffed, which leads to more dejection.

Points - He's getting the ball where he needs to but is just missing the shot. He has certainly changed his whole attitude / strategy attempting to score. That's not saying he's not working hard (although, there's no denying he's much more stationary / drifting, rather than cutting and calling for the ball) but he's doing things that are outside his athleticism and physicality - inherently low success - and simply spiraling his psyche down further.

It's dumb to try to have him anywhere near the basket where he's just not physically strong enough to be successful, unless the intent is to get him to the free throw line. However, he mostly just gets stuffed or bumped without a call.

Joe needs to work the baseline, corner to corner, look to catch and shoot - period.
 
HawkGold said:
Joe gets too much grief. Go back to Kevin Boyle. The guy wasn't really very good but filled a role elevated by those around him. Joe gets a lot of attention by everyone but here.

No doubt Conner has fueled LG s season. One of the pt guard duties is to get the ball to players in a position to do it by their strengths. Get the ball to Joe about chest to chin hi and he scores. CM doesn't do that as well as Garza s passes. It's due to lack of driving. Lack of drawing defenders

Sorry the truth hurts. Joe and Conner don't mix well. It's not a choice but lack of penetration and fishing where he can step into the shot. JB could shoot w o stepping in. Joe didn't just change. Some games obviously it works. My guess is that Joe has his best games when he s matched up with special K.
Click to expand...
1 - Connor gets way more grief than Joe.
2 - Joe is down right depressed on how he's playing lately. So it's not like it's crazy talk for fans to mention it too.
3 - our point guard is Joe Toussaint. He's the guy who needs to drive and dish.
 
HawkGold said:
Joe gets too much grief. Go back to Kevin Boyle. The guy wasn't really very good but filled a role elevated by those around him. Joe gets a lot of attention by everyone but here.

No doubt Conner has fueled LG s season. One of the pt guard duties is to get the ball to players in a position to do it by their strengths. Get the ball to Joe about chest to chin hi and he scores. CM doesn't do that as well as Garza s passes. It's due to lack of driving. Lack of drawing defenders

Sorry the truth hurts. Joe and Conner don't mix well. It's not a choice but lack of penetration and fishing where he can step into the shot. JB could shoot w o stepping in. Joe didn't just change. Some games obviously it works. My guess is that Joe has his best games when he s matched up with special K.
Click to expand...

So, to be clear, when Joe W was scoring in double figures for 13 straight games starting with Michigan on 12-9-2019 through 2-2-2020, including games with 26 points vs Maryland and 30 points vs Nebraska, then Connor was helping him. But, then when he slumped, it was Connor not getting him the ball correctly? I don't think it is that simple.

You have a problem with Connor's game overall. As PC mentioned, Connor is not really playing the PG position at this point (that's Toussaint and Evelyn). Connor is a good passer, for the most part. He takes care of the ball.

And bringing up Kevin Boyle is hilarious. There is no comparison to the types of player Joe W and Kevin Boyle are. Not really much to say there.
 
Robowe said:
So, to be clear, when Joe W was scoring in double figures for 13 straight games starting with Michigan on 12-9-2019 through 2-2-2020, including games with 26 points vs Maryland and 30 points vs Nebraska, then Connor was helping him. But, then when he slumped, it was Connor not getting him the ball correctly? I don't think it is that simple.

You have a problem with Connor's game overall. As PC mentioned, Connor is not really playing the PG position at this point (that's Toussaint and Evelyn). Connor is a good passer, for the most part. He takes care of the ball.

And bringing up Kevin Boyle is hilarious. There is no comparison to the types of player Joe W and Kevin Boyle are. Not really much to say there.
Click to expand...

I think you can make the leap about Boyle.

Garza s year changes things including direction. To be voted as he was Joe is getting a bad rap.

Conner is a role player and as you state. He is quite good at aspects. Joe struggles in the mix. JT doesn't play enough to take over pt. Evelyn is for sure a role player.

Point is that Joe s issues are directly correlated to pt guard or lack thereof. It s a valid point anyone can disagree or agree with. Note I didn't say CM is bad. I state that as he plays it and lack of penetration at pt guard is where Joe's issues start.

Maybe if this is the system as we've not highlighted a pt guard for some time, Joe doesn't fit.
 
HawkGold said:
I think you can make the leap about Boyle.

Garza s year changes things including direction. To be voted as he was Joe is getting a bad rap.

Conner is a role player and as you state. He is quite good at aspects. Joe struggles in the mix. JT doesn't play enough to take over pt. Evelyn is for sure a role player.

Point is that Joe s issues are directly correlated to pt guard or lack thereof. It s a valid point anyone can disagree or agree with. Note I didn't say CM is bad. I state that as he plays it and lack of penetration at pt guard is where Joe's issues start.

Maybe if this is the system as we've not highlighted a pt guard for some time, Joe doesn't fit.
Click to expand...

Kevin Boyle was a completely different player than Joe W. Complete stop. I don't know what else to tell you. That's too big of a leap for me to make. :)

Joe W was a 3rd team all conference player this year. As PC said, he was on track to be even better earlier in the season. He has struggled for the past few weeks. It happens to most players at some point (As someone mentioned earlier, Garza hit a rough patch last year as well).

To tie that to one other player (Connor - as I pointed out you mentioned twice in your post) shows your bias against him pretty clearly. The fact that Connor doesn't really play PG in this offense is something you haven't addressed. Joe T and Evelyn are the initiators of the offense for most of the game. If Joe W needs penetration from other players to be more effective, that might be true. But, Joe was more effective earlier in the year with these same players (and 10 games of another non-penetrator JBo) in the mix.

Joe W will figure it out at some point (I hope). His teammates will be a part of the process. But, to put the onus on Connor as the culprit is wrong, IMO.
 
Robowe said:
Kevin Boyle was a completely different player than Joe W. Complete stop. I don't know what else to tell you. That's too big of a leap for me to make. :)

Joe W was a 3rd team all conference player this year. As PC said, he was on track to be even better earlier in the season. He has struggled for the past few weeks. It happens to most players at some point (As someone mentioned earlier, Garza hit a rough patch last year as well).

To tie that to one other player (Connor - as I pointed out you mentioned twice in your post) shows your bias against him pretty clearly. The fact that Connor doesn't really play PG in this offense is something you haven't addressed. Joe T and Evelyn are the initiators of the offense for most of the game. If Joe W needs penetration from other players to be more effective, that might be true. But, Joe was more effective earlier in the year with these same players (and 10 games of another non-penetrator JBo) in the mix.

Joe W will figure it out at some point (I hope). His teammates will be a part of the process. But, to put the onus on Connor as the culprit is wrong, IMO.
Click to expand...

Joe was highly effective all last year and most of this year. The only thing that changed since then is his thoughts in his head. Our players around him didn't change. If anything, our best penetrating guards are playing more and more. Most people think he needed another shooter on the other side of the floor, so he played bad when CJ was hurt. I dont really agree with that either. But Gold is the only one that thinks Wieskamp is struggling because of Connor, who has been here for Joe's whole career here.

Connor is a decent starter on a top 25 team. That's a fact. We would be a better team if he was better (obviously) but you could say that about anyone. What if Pemsl played like he did as a freshman? What if Wieskamp didn't hit a month long slump? What if Joe T didn't play out of control? What if Garza could jump better? What if Kriener was more consistent? I just don't understand the infatuation with Connor needing to be better over everyone else
 
STILLBUSTER said:
JoeW has had dozens of open looks from the exact same spots as he had in December through January. He's not making them, losing confidence in his shot to the point where he's not even looking to take them, trying to drive / attack - which he's not strong enough to finish in a congested lane - resulting in easily getting bumped off, stumbling or getting stuffed, which leads to more dejection.

Points - He's getting the ball where he needs to but is just missing the shot. He has certainly changed his whole attitude / strategy attempting to score. That's not saying he's not working hard (although, there's no denying he's much more stationary / drifting, rather than cutting and calling for the ball) but he's doing things that are outside his athleticism and physicality - inherently low success - and simply spiraling his psyche down further.

It's dumb to try to have him anywhere near the basket where he's just not physically strong enough to be successful, unless the intent is to get him to the free throw line. However, he mostly just gets stuffed or bumped without a call.

Joe needs to work the baseline, corner to corner, look to catch and shoot - period.
Click to expand...


Yea, let's have all one-dimensional players on the court. That'd be effective. o_O
 
I thought CJF’s return would free up Joe. The shots are there he just isn’t making them. I realize he isn’t a volume shooter, but he needs to take on some of that mentality and keep firing. Work your way through it. Really not anything else you can do other than run some sets here and there for him.
 
Robowe said:
Kevin Boyle was a completely different player than Joe W. Complete stop. I don't know what else to tell you. That's too big of a leap for me to make. :)

Joe W was a 3rd team all conference player this year. As PC said, he was on track to be even better earlier in the season. He has struggled for the past few weeks. It happens to most players at some point (As someone mentioned earlier, Garza hit a rough patch last year as well).

To tie that to one other player (Connor - as I pointed out you mentioned twice in your post) shows your bias against him pretty clearly. The fact that Connor doesn't really play PG in this offense is something you haven't addressed. Joe T and Evelyn are the initiators of the offense for most of the game. If Joe W needs penetration from other players to be more effective, that might be true. But, Joe was more effective earlier in the year with these same players (and 10 games of another non-penetrator JBo) in the mix.

Joe W will figure it out at some point (I hope). His teammates will be a part of the process. But, to put the onus on Connor as the culprit is wrong, IMO.
Click to expand...

OK OK OK OK.....

Joe W's "slump" isn't that simple. What changed? CF has been out or rusty. That leaves more passes from CM. My point isn't whether CM is good or bad. Just like in batting there are tendencies. JBo passes differently. CM passes more to the interior. J Bo more to the perimeter.

Nuff said.

Maybe there is something in the water around here. Read enough to see the CM reference. Had to laugh on the way home today. A local station has very good local sports talk. When ever they bring up CJ.....they play a crying baby. Too funny. Here's looking at you Conner :cool:

https://www.thechampaignroom.com/20...dT8ODgsjrx0yhsR392A6yrbMDBdBkPGWXPTQpAT1gXsX4
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Share this page

Top