How to get JW into the game and scoring??

[SomersHawk]

Maybe he is simply a victim of the famous sophomore slump many seem to go through to one degree or another.

I don't want to dog on JW because he has been and will be great once again, just a matter of time. But the most frustrating thing I see is when he jogs behind on defense after struggling on the offensive end. RUN your ass back and make an effort to help out. Happens far too often.

 

[Northside Hawk]

OK OK OK OK.....

Joe W's "slump" isn't that simple. What changed? CF has been out or rusty. That leaves more passes from CM. My point isn't whether CM is good or bad. Just like in batting there are tendencies. JBo passes differently. CM passes more to the interior. J Bo more to the perimeter.

Nuff said.

Maybe there is something in the water around here. Read enough to see the CM reference. Had to laugh on the way home today. A local station has very good local sports talk. When ever they bring up CJ.....they play a crying baby. Too funny. Here's looking at you Conner

https://www.thechampaignroom.com/20...dT8ODgsjrx0yhsR392A6yrbMDBdBkPGWXPTQpAT1gXsX4

Trent Frazier gave up his role as primary offensive threat in this game and instead focused on chasing CJ all over the court, denying the ball, and bumping him as the officials would allow. It was actually a nice coaching move by Underwood and a nice effort by Trent.

Next time someone tries this, someone else has gotta make them pay. Right Joe?

 

[HawkGold]

Trent Frazier gave up his role as primary offensive threat in this game and instead focused on chasing CJ all over the court, denying the ball, and bumping him as the officials would allow. It was actually a nice coaching move by Underwood and a nice effort by Trent.

Next time someone tries this, someone else has gotta make them pay. Right Joe?

Only thing you are a bit off on was Underwood. His new old assistant I am sure called that one.

 

[Robowe]

OK OK OK OK.....

Joe W's "slump" isn't that simple. What changed? CF has been out or rusty. That leaves more passes from CM. My point isn't whether CM is good or bad. Just like in batting there are tendencies. JBo passes differently. CM passes more to the interior. J Bo more to the perimeter.

Nuff said.

Maybe there is something in the water around here. Read enough to see the CM reference. Had to laugh on the way home today. A local station has very good local sports talk. When ever they bring up CJ.....they play a crying baby. Too funny. Here's looking at you Conner

https://www.thechampaignroom.com/20...dT8ODgsjrx0yhsR392A6yrbMDBdBkPGWXPTQpAT1gXsX4

I agree that Joe's slump isn't that simple, but you are overlooking the obvious. Joe is missing shots he made at other times. The excuse that the passes are different are just that ... an excuse. And, if you asked Joe W, I bet he would tell you ... he has to make shots when he is open. He also has to fight more to get open. And, he has to finish when the opportunities are there.

My point in my response was, this was a thread asking about how to get Joe W more into the game and scoring like he was. And 2 of your points (out of 4) were about Connor improving (his scoring and his passes). That's just weak.

CJ was out against Maryland and Joe W had 26 points. CJ played 14 minutes at Penn State and didn't score (and then was hurt) and Joe had 23. It's not as simple as CJ being out or hurt. That's just a convenient narrative.

 

[Northside Hawk]

1. Only thing you are a bit off on was Underwood. His new old assistant I am sure called that one.

Underwood does deserve some due for changing his philosophy in the off season. His first two Illinois teams were defensive sieves. His third made the double bye with an outright fourth place finish.

Underwood deduced that he would have to tighten up the defense in order to win on the road and finish higher in the standings and he was right.

 

[DDThompson]

JoeW?
More want to.

This is not just a shooting slump.
His assist totals decreased by half in the second half of the season from the first half. Even worse, the first eight games he had 16 assists. The last 12 games he had 12 assists.

He needs to exert himself on offense.

 

[HawkGold]

I agree that Joe's slump isn't that simple, but you are overlooking the obvious. Joe is missing shots he made at other times. The excuse that the passes are different are just that ... an excuse. And, if you asked Joe W, I bet he would tell you ... he has to make shots when he is open. He also has to fight more to get open. And, he has to finish when the opportunities are there.

My point in my response was, this was a thread asking about how to get Joe W more into the game and scoring like he was. And 2 of your points (out of 4) were about Connor improving (his scoring and his passes). That's just weak.

CJ was out against Maryland and Joe W had 26 points. CJ played 14 minutes at Penn State and didn't score (and then was hurt) and Joe had 23. It's not as simple as CJ being out or hurt. That's just a convenient narrative.

No, but hey it's not worth it. My question though is why get butt hurt about this and yet you let people go free nilly on Cook, Moss, Joe, and others. Joe is a fine player. He hasn't changed. D's change. Individual D's facing you changes. Lot's of things change. You completely ignore the positives about CM.

I do wonder how many teams with a POY finished 1 game above 500 in the big. I'm sure it's happened, but how often? Don't know.

To end the discussion on my part, we wouldn't be thinking JW had a problem if we had a real point presence in the traditional sense. That isn't negative nor is in evil in saying it. There are plenty of negatives on here. I am not one of them. It's been a fun season beyond my expectations. Could have been better.

Forums are about discussing things per the team. We disagree. Why we disagree is a bit curious. Ok, I get it you don't like me. Heard that before.

What is obvious and the point is that every team ahead of Iowa has a strong POINT presence in the traditional sense. I can say, Conner is good at this...and point that we need a point and it is upsetting.

Just be consistent and disagree with the real negative crap. CM is a big boy.

Back to the premise how to help Joe....Lead him into stepping into the shot. Get him baseline feeds which come from penetration. Posting him up is hard as he draws bigger players. Let him handle the ball.

 

[DDThompson]

The game that stood out to me, probably most of us, that "turned" our perspective on the season, was the Purdue debacle. So I looked up JoeW's stats thinking that his shooting/offensive woes coincided with that nightmore and separated the first 11 games of the season when Iowa went 7-4 and the last 9 games of the season when Iowa slipped to 4-5.

First 11 . . . . . . 63-140 45.2% TFG . . . . . 37-76 48.7% 2FG . . . . . 26-64 40.6% 3FG . . . . . 17.8 PPG . . . . 19A
Last 09 . . . . . . 32-87 36.8% TFG . . . . . 25-54 46.2% 2FG . . . . . 07-33 21.2% 3FG . . . . . 11.4 PPG . . . . 09A

That is a stark offensive drop-off.
Taking 3 fewer less shots (-2.2 3FGA) and only 7 made three pointers in the last nine games. Seven.

But his shooting struggles started earlier than that. We recall the Wisconsin game being a physical body-blow and low-blow game. Looking at Joe's game-by-game stats up to the Wisconsin game (8 games 5-3) compared to the Wisconsin game to the end of the season (6-6).

Pre-Wis . . . . . 48-100 48.0% TFG . . . . . 26-51 50.9% 2FG . . . . . 22-49 44.9% 3FG . . . . . 18.8 PPG . . . . 16A
Post-Bad . . . . 47-127 37.0% TFG . . . . . 36-79 45.6% 2FG . . . . . 11-48 22.9% 3FG . . . . . 12.3 PPG . . . . 12A

So Joe had a couple of high double-digit scoring games following Wisconsin, but the stats show that his season turned much sooner than I thought it did. And it turned when Gard started the blue-print of playing tight and physical on JW (it's Badgerball after all).

Of six games Joe had with 20+ points, five happened in the first seven games of Big10 play. The only other game was home verses the worst team in the conference when he had 30.

Breaking down stats post-Wisconsin or post-Purdue might seem like cherry-picking (both games stand out for different reason), but the first half and second half stats are within the margins as those from the Wisconsin to the end of the regular season.

1st Half . . . . . 57-129 44.2% TFG . . . . . 32-68 47.1% 2FG . . . . . 25-61 40.9% 3FG . . . .. 17.8 PPG . . . . 18A
2nd Half . . . . . 38-98 38.7% TFG . . . . . 30-62 48.4% 2FG . . . . . 8-36 22.2% 3FG . . .. . 11.4 PPG . . . . 10A

CJ Frederick also missed all or parts of seven games and it is thought that Joe Dub has struggled without having another sniper on the floor. The stats above should disprove that notion, but here are the stats without CJ.

1st Half-3G . . . . 27-54 50.0% TFG . . . . .16-25 64.0% 2FG . . . . . 11-27 40.7% 3FG . . . . . 23.3 PPG
2nd Half-4G . . . .11-38 28.9% TFG . . . . . 9-23 39.1% 2FG . . . . . 02-15 13.3% 3FG . . . . . 08.8 PPG

 

[DDThompson]

Dude, you are always good for a laugh when a laugh is needed

Some ideas:

 

[PCHawk]

No, but hey it's not worth it. My question though is why get butt hurt about this and yet you let people go free nilly on Cook, Moss, Joe, and others. Joe is a fine player. He hasn't changed. D's change. Individual D's facing you changes. Lot's of things change. You completely ignore the positives about CM.

I do wonder how many teams with a POY finished 1 game above 500 in the big. I'm sure it's happened, but how often? Don't know.

To end the discussion on my part, we wouldn't be thinking JW had a problem if we had a real point presence in the traditional sense. That isn't negative nor is in evil in saying it. There are plenty of negatives on here. I am not one of them. It's been a fun season beyond my expectations. Could have been better.

Forums are about discussing things per the team. We disagree. Why we disagree is a bit curious. Ok, I get it you don't like me. Heard that before.

What is obvious and the point is that every team ahead of Iowa has a strong POINT presence in the traditional sense. I can say, Conner is good at this...and point that we need a point and it is upsetting.

Just be consistent and disagree with the real negative crap. CM is a big boy.

Back to the premise how to help Joe....Lead him into stepping into the shot. Get him baseline feeds which come from penetration. Posting him up is hard as he draws bigger players. Let him handle the ball.

It still sounds like you think Connor is our point guard.

 

[Robowe]

It still sounds like you think Connor is our point guard.

That's the part he doesn't get ... at all. And, it's funny.

 

[Robowe]

No, but hey it's not worth it. My question though is why get butt hurt about this and yet you let people go free nilly on Cook, Moss, Joe, and others. Joe is a fine player. He hasn't changed. D's change. Individual D's facing you changes. Lot's of things change. You completely ignore the positives about CM.

I do wonder how many teams with a POY finished 1 game above 500 in the big. I'm sure it's happened, but how often? Don't know.

To end the discussion on my part, we wouldn't be thinking JW had a problem if we had a real point presence in the traditional sense. That isn't negative nor is in evil in saying it. There are plenty of negatives on here. I am not one of them. It's been a fun season beyond my expectations. Could have been better.

Forums are about discussing things per the team. We disagree. Why we disagree is a bit curious. Ok, I get it you don't like me. Heard that before.

What is obvious and the point is that every team ahead of Iowa has a strong POINT presence in the traditional sense. I can say, Conner is good at this...and point that we need a point and it is upsetting.

Just be consistent and disagree with the real negative crap. CM is a big boy.

Back to the premise how to help Joe....Lead him into stepping into the shot. Get him baseline feeds which come from penetration. Posting him up is hard as he draws bigger players. Let him handle the ball.

Dude ... get a grip. Of course defenses change and then coaches and players need to adapt to the changes. That's the game. It's up to Joe W to look for different ways to help the team and score as teams have guarded him more aggressively. And, his coaches and teammates need to find ways to help as well.

And, just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't like you. I just don't think you are fair at times with some players and overly defensive on others. For instance, I agree (mostly) with your stance on Isaiah Moss. Others are very tough on him. Bottom line ... kid didn't want to be here anymore .. it happens. I don't feel anything against the kid at all.

And, your point about the point ... guard. Teams use their PGs in different ways. And, there are different ways to attack a defense. I believe, when Joe T matures, you will see the PG that you are looking for.

Finally, how do you know I am not consistent and disagree with the real negative crap? Just because I don't post about it, doesn't mean I don't agree. But, when I see something about Joe W being like Kevin Boyle, I can't resist.

Cheers!

 

[HawkGold]

It still sounds like you think Connor is our point guard.

You wiffed.

 

[LicThawk]

When is the last time someone set a screen for him? When is the last time he called for the ball. When is the last time he followed up a shot and finished his own or someone else's miss at the rim. I don't remember it, and I've made it a point to watch him the last several games.

The times he has used his skill set to get around the rim he has missed several bunnies or had ugly looking shots. It's very odd. The entire last game he stood at the 3 pt line away from the motion offense. It seemed literally every possession he was an afterthought. Of course, this could be Fran's doing or his own. If it's his own, that's on Fran, if it's Fran, Fran has to realize it isn't working.

 

[PCHawk]

You wiffed.

Lol, how so? You keep talking about all the things we need Connor to do like penetrate and kick. I've never see a poster complain on here before that our guy playing the power forward position needs to be good at penetrating and kicking.

 

[uihawk82]

I think also that JW and much of the team could go off script and use some shot fakes to get defenders in the air and to draw some fouls while shooting, maybe getting some And 1s and getting defenders in foul trouble and out of the game.

 

[STILLBUSTER]

Yea, let's have all one-dimensional players on the court. That'd be effective.

Yes, let's have Joe work on regaining the ONE dimension he's pretty good at. At this point, he just doesn't succeed at any other dimension, so, one is better than none.

 

[GVGiant44]

Joe gets too much grief. Go back to Kevin Boyle. The guy wasn't really very good but filled a role elevated by those around him.

EXCUSE ME? Had Kevin Boyle not gotten hurt early in his Sr. year, he would've been regarded as one of our better overall players through the decades. I was in college at the same time he was. I met a couple of basketball players who had to play against him and called him the nastiest "white boy" they had ever come up against. His defense, especially against elite forwards was as vicious as you would see back in those days. He was 1st-team all Big-10 as a Jr. EVERY opposing coach mentioned him as one of the key players not just at Iowa but in the league.

His shot looked like he should have more off-nights than on, but JW has already had more bad games in the last two weeks than KB would have in a season. His corner jumper was downright poisonous. And in (what is still our most recent) Final Four run, over our four wins, he averaged 14 pts. and 6 rebounds, shooting 62% from the field. And it was respect for his driving the lane that had two Georgetown players run into each other as he dished the ball to Steve Waite for "the play".

 

[HawkGold]

Dude ... get a grip. Of course defenses change and then coaches and players need to adapt to the changes. That's the game. It's up to Joe W to look for different ways to help the team and score as teams have guarded him more aggressively. And, his coaches and teammates need to find ways to help as well.

And, just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't like you. I just don't think you are fair at times with some players and overly defensive on others. For instance, I agree (mostly) with your stance on Isaiah Moss. Others are very tough on him. Bottom line ... kid didn't want to be here anymore .. it happens. I don't feel anything against the kid at all.

And, your point about the point ... guard. Teams use their PGs in different ways. And, there are different ways to attack a defense. I believe, when Joe T matures, you will see the PG that you are looking for.

Finally, how do you know I am not consistent and disagree with the real negative crap? Just because I don't post about it, doesn't mean I don't agree. But, when I see something about Joe W being like Kevin Boyle, I can't resist.

Cheers!