How often does Iowa beat better teams?

FML

Well-Known Member
We all know Iowa has gotten pretty good under KF at losing to less talented teams. But how often do we actually beat teams that are better than us?
-you could make a case for Missouri last year
-PSU in 08 is the last definitive one I can think of
-07 Illini (Zook coached team could make this a wash)

Thoughts?
 
That is a very difficult question to answer because everyone could define "better teams" differently. If you define the quality of the team by their end-of-season record then Iowa beat a better MSU team last year.

But there are problems with defining teams that way: if you beat almost everyone, then no one was better than you by that metric. For instance, the 2009 Penn State team the Hawks beat in Happy Valley finished with the exact same record as the Hawks and beat LSU in a bowl. But because the Hawks finished 11-2 you might not say they beat a better PSU team. However, had Iowa lost to Minnesota that year, then PSU would have the better record and you could say that Iowa beat a better team.

Or do you define the quality of the team by the recruiting rankings? If so, Iowa beats better teams all the time. However, ultimately the coaches are responsible for the players that are on the team, so that metric is also flawed.

Or do you define the quality of the team by the amount of NFL talent? This is also somewhat flawed. Iowa develops a ton of NFL talent due to their pro-style schemes and their emphasis on thinking on the football field. Thus, their players are not necessarily more talented than their opponents, they are just more pro-ready.

Ultimately I think you judge a coach by wins and losses, opponent be damned. Enjoy a win no matter who it is against, and accept that losing is a part of sports, no matter who the opponent.

As to your premise that the Hawks have gotten very good at losing to less talented teams under Ferentz, consider the following numbers (first 2 years of both coach's tenures and last 2 years of Fry's tenure ignored):

  • Ferentz has a better winning percentage vs. the Gophers than Fry, and the Gophers have won at a 48% clip overall during Ferentz's time, while only a 38% clip overall during Fry's time.
  • Fry beat NW consistently (14-2), but the Wildcats won 28% of their games during his tenure, and did not make a bowl until his last 2 years. NW has won 50% of its games in Ferentz's tenure and has made 6 bowls (now eligible for a 7th). NW also has a winning record vs. Wisconsin during this time.
  • To Fry's credit, he dominated ISU and Wisconsin. Both of these teams have been considerably better during Ferentz's tenure than during Fry's, but he still owned them both.
  • Ferentz has a winning record vs. every Big Ten team save NW and Ohio State during this time span
 
Last edited:
We all know Iowa has gotten pretty good under KF at losing to less talented teams. But how often do we actually beat teams that are better than us?
-you could make a case for Missouri last year
-PSU in 08 is the last definitive one I can think of
-07 Illini (Zook coached team could make this a wash)

Thoughts?

Please stop. As was noted above....and I'm sure numerous other times in other threads, that is not true. CP87 made some fine points, and I will add this: Kirk is 37-28 vs Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Minnesota and ISU combined. That is definitely not pretty good at losing to less talented teams.
 
I was not trying to start another "bash KF" thread, just really trying to see what some people consider "wins against a better/more talented team".
I assume though you are a monster KF fan, and if you want to go there and find the results of Iowa wins against heavy favored oppenents VS losses against teams they are heavy favorites to beat....you will be very dissapointed with what you find.
 
I hate this post, but I'll take the bait.

We beat Michigan this year when they were ranked in the Top 20. We were not. Michigan will probably finish in the Top 14 and go to a BCS game. We will not.

That was a huge upset by Iowa and qualifies as "beating a better team"

The only way to judge a coach is to look at his overall record and his bowl record. Ferentz has won 60% of his games in 13 years and is 6-3 in bowl games. The only coach that even compares in Iowa history is Hayden, who won 61% of his games in 20 years and finished 6-7-1 in bowls. Kirk has won a BCS bowl game; Hayden never did. Kirk has won 2 Big Ten titles in 13 years (15.38%); Hayden won 3 in 20 years (15%).

Ferentz is the best coach in Iowa football history. Deal with it.
 
I was not trying to start another "bash KF" thread, just really trying to see what some people consider "wins against a better/more talented team".

I assume though you are a monster KF fan, and if you want to go there and find the results of Iowa wins against heavy favored oppenents VS losses against teams they are heavy favorites to beat....you will be very dissapointed with what you find.

I am a KF fan period. I don't have to be a monster fan to defend his record. I couldn't care less whether we were favored in games.....heavily or otherwise. Games aren't played on paper......they are played on the field. The difference between you and I is that I don't dwell on them as much.
 
Last edited:
We all know Iowa has gotten pretty good under KF at losing to less talented teams. But how often do we actually beat teams that are better than us?
-you could make a case for Missouri last year
-PSU in 08 is the last definitive one I can think of
-07 Illini (Zook coached team could make this a wash)

Thoughts?

Why do you just go back to the 2007 season?

Pretty obvious PSU and NW were better teams than us in 2000.

Im sure we beat some teams that were better than us in 2001.

We beat Michigan in 2003 that went to the Rose Bowl.

I would argue that the 2004 LSU team was better than the Hawks.

Why didnt you figure in KF's early years? Oh thats right, because it didnt fit your argument.
 
I was not trying to start another "bash KF" thread, just really trying to see what some people consider "wins against a better/more talented team".
I assume though you are a monster KF fan, and if you want to go there and find the results of Iowa wins against heavy favored oppenents VS losses against teams they are heavy favorites to beat....you will be very dissapointed with what you find.

Yes you were. You wanna know how I know that? Read your last paragraph in the same post where you claimed you weren't trying to bash KF.
 
I was not trying to start another "bash KF" thread, just really trying to see what some people consider "wins against a better/more talented team".
I assume though you are a monster KF fan, and if you want to go there and find the results of Iowa wins against heavy favored oppenents VS losses against teams they are heavy favorites to beat....you will be very dissapointed with what you find.

So you are suggesting using Vegas as our metric to determine the quality of the teams? Certainly has some flaws as well, but seems pretty reasonable. Of course you would have to do the research regarding not only Ferentz, but also his counterparts (Iowa predecessors and Big Ten contemporaries) to have a basis for comparison.

You seem pretty confident in how this will come out, have you started digging up the numbers?
 
In 08, Im not sure that Penn State team was better than Iowa at that point in the season.

Really? They went 11-1 and we went 8-4 and barely beat Purdue the week after we beat Penn State. They outplayed us that day and moved the ball up and down the field. We just buckled down and held them to some FG's and came up with some huge plays in the 2nd half.

That Penn State team was the best in the conference in 2008.
 
Iowa has beaten Michigan for 5 years in a row and one could make the arguement that each of those teams were more talented than Iowa but some were badly coached. Penn State was more talented than Iowa as they get better recruiting classes.
 
Kirk is 37-28 vs Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Minnesota and ISU combined. That is definitely not pretty good at losing to less talented teams.

A .569 winning percentage against those teams. That's the very definition of being pretty good at losing to less talented teams.
 
If you wanna bash Kirk for losing games he has no business losing, I'm not going to stop you (it seems a little odd doing so after a win but whatever).

But on what planet have you been living in where you think Kirk's teams don't have a tendency to beat better teams?
 
A .569 winning percentage against those teams. That's the very definition of being pretty good at losing to less talented teams.

No it's not. Being pretty good at it would be below .500. Keep in mind 11 of those losses came in the first three years of the program (.660 since then). Over the last three years, he has a .615 winning percentage against them. Somehow I don't think you would be satisfied unless it was 1.00 though.
 
A .569 winning percentage against those teams. That's the very definition of being pretty good at losing to less talented teams.

Ignoring the first 2 seasons for Ferentz, his record against Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, NW, and Purdue is 30-14, winning at a 68.2% clip.

During that same time, Wisconsin, a very similar school in many respects, is 31-13 (70.5%).

Iowa has a winning record against Wisconsin over this stretch (6-5).

As another comparison, Hayden Fry was 52-19 against those teams during his tenure (ignoring his first 2 and last 2 years). That is a 73.2% clip. However, the combined winning percentage of those teams was 40.3% in Fry's time, and it has been 46.0% in Ferentz's time.
 
Last edited:
2000 - MSU, @PSU, NW (I believe MSU & NW were both ranked when Iowa beat them)
2001 - Nobody really comes to mind
2002 - Iowa had more talented than everyone they played except USC
2003 - Michigan (legit top 5 team that year, lost @Iowa, @Oregon, & against USC in LA), @WIS because SR day
2004 - LSU & Wisconsin
2005 - @Wisconsin
2006 - Nobody
2007 - Pretty much every B10 team except MINN was more talented than Iowa that year, even the Gopher beat writers clowned Iowa's talent level
2008 - PSU
2009 - Iowa had more talent than everyone they played except for OSU
2010 - Mizz probably, hard to judge teams in the B12, no defense
 
Top