How many people get flu shots as another example

PCHawk said:
Huck I gotta say, in consecutive posts you praised one guy for using logic and another for never fact checking. I assume the only difference between the two is which one you agree with. It's pretty common for people to call something they agree with "logic" so I'm not just calling you out. We all probably need to get better at that. As far as fact checking goes, I'm sure both posters can provide links to their "facts". There is so much BS out there the only thing we can go off of to decide which ones are facts is our own "logic".
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I am fine with my post, but thanks.
 
HuckFinn said:
I am fine with my post, but thanks.
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I believe you. That's why I wrote what I wrote. If you weren't fine with your post, you would have debunked my theory (not really my theory) that everyone thinks that their own thoughts are the logical ones.
 
PCHawk said:
I believe you. That's why I wrote what I wrote. If you weren't fine with your post, you would have debunked my theory (not really my theory) that everyone thinks that their own thoughts are the logical ones.
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Maybe you should consider that how you reach that logical conclusion is the key factor. Going too fast for you?
 
I get a flu shot every October, I haven't had the flu with symptoms like fever, body aches, throwing up & diarrhea for many years now....knock on wood. Of course I always at least once a year get a nasty head cold.....sore throat, nasty cough after the sore throat dispenses, hacking up flem ,sneezing.
 
PCHawk said:
At some point, people do need to die to make room for people being born.
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uihawk82 said:
Interesting, do you have several links to those studies?
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The first one is not free. I tried uploading the pdf file here, but it failed.
I know I've seen another one, but I'm having trouble tracking it down.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22423139/

"Increased risk of noninfluenza respiratory virus infections associated with receipt of inactivated influenza vaccine."

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https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X19313647?via=ihub

"Influenza vaccination and respiratory virus interference among Department of Defense personnel during the 2017–2018 influenza season"

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22525386
Effectiveness of trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine in influenza-related hospitalization in children: a case-control study.
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When it comes to any recommended or mandated population safety measure, people will always find data to support their views. That's especially the case with vaccinations, and even in occasional "extreme" cases, such as motorcycle helmets and seat belts: "I refuse to wear a seatbelt due to that 1 in 500,000,000 chance that it could get stuck while my car is sinking and I drown..."

The really only good way to think about these things is by comparing theoretical worlds "with" and "without."

Based upon the majority of studies, a world "with" vaccines will have less disease and less symptoms for those who do get them. BUT, there probably would be those few that have a worse outcome due to the vaccination itself. A world "without" vaccinations would lead to millions of new cases of several diseases (measles for example spreads much easier than coronavirus), but a few adverse effects from the vaccines would be avoided.

It's up to each person to decide which scenario is worse.
 
#1DieHardHawk said:
When it comes to any recommended or mandated population safety measure, people will always find data to support their views. That's especially the case with vaccinations, and even in occasional "extreme" cases, such as motorcycle helmets and seat belts: "I refuse to wear a seatbelt due to that 1 in 500,000,000 chance that it could get stuck while my car is sinking and I drown..."

The really only good way to think about these things is by comparing theoretical worlds "with" and "without."

Based upon the majority of studies, a world "with" vaccines will have less disease and less symptoms for those who do get them. BUT, there probably would be those few that have a worse outcome due to the vaccination itself. A world "without" vaccinations would lead to millions of new cases of several diseases (measles for example spreads much easier than coronavirus), but a few adverse effects from the vaccines would be avoided.

It's up to each person to decide which scenario is worse.
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We have seen the world without vaccines and innoculations to stop smallpox, chicken pox, influenza etc. It is a terrible world of huge outbreaks of sickness and death every year. Dont want that.
 
tksirius said:
The first one is not free. I tried uploading the pdf file here, but it failed.
I know I've seen another one, but I'm having trouble tracking it down.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22423139/

"Increased risk of noninfluenza respiratory virus infections associated with receipt of inactivated influenza vaccine."

View attachment 6467
View attachment 6468

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X19313647?via=ihub

"Influenza vaccination and respiratory virus interference among Department of Defense personnel during the 2017–2018 influenza season"

View attachment 6469


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22525386
Effectiveness of trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine in influenza-related hospitalization in children: a case-control study.
View attachment 6470
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Interesting stuff, did any source give hypotheses or some sort of knowledge why this occurs? Does a flu vaccine suppress other immunology for awhile for making antibodies against other viruses?

The human body as well as probably many living things have a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level response to invading microbes so maybe flu vaccines hampers that response.

I noticed they used a lot of subjects with respiratory issues so maybe they were testing those populations.

Either way one has to weigh how badly they get sick from various viruses. I myself know I would rather least like to have true influenza (and it is amazing how people who get intestinal problems which they call the stomach flu mix that up with actual influenza), then next I would like to avoid the RSV type viruses that attack the lungs and bronchia, and then the common head cold that doesnt attack the lungs is the least of my worries.

That is why I get vaccines against flu and pneumonia as bad flu and bad chest colds can hit you for a week or two if not more.
 
I'm 40 w/ 2 girls (11 & 14). Never received a flu shot and neither has my wife or kids. I had the flu a couple years ago and guess what my body temperature rose and fought it off like God intended for it to do. The key for us is staying healthy. Staying active and eating right. The below link is a good representation of how I really feel.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CnmMNdiCz_s
 
HawkGold said:
I do not get flu shots. Not a fan of them. Had the flu last about 4 years ago. Before that had been many years.

Businesses lobby for the vaccines. Flu vacs is a 1.6 billion dollar business.

Flu last year mutated rendering vaccines useless and many who goth the fly did have flu shots.

The first place to start is a good diet low in sugar and healthy lifestyle. I'm more upset about the drain that poor diet and unhealthy lifestyles have than not getting the flu shot. Not a big fan of putting unnatural things in my body unless absolutely necessary.

Though I don't run anymore more due to a knee injury my BP is 110 over 68 and rest heart rate is under 60. My blood sugar is terrific and have a good bmi. I do have a weakness for natural peanut butter. Most what I eat is organic.

My health ins cost would be way lower if more did the same and I could invest more...spend more on other things.
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So, an anti vaxxer. I will now filter all your future posts with that knowledge in mind.
 
sioux34 said:
So, an anti vaxxer. I will now filter all your future posts with that knowledge in mind.
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Our kids had their vaccines. Not all of them in the timing the doctor wanted. Doctors are sometimes sloppy against real data. Not as simple as yes or no, but sometimes when.

I don't do flu vax.

My daughter in hospital was in part there to medication. The doctor didn't read the fine print. And he looked at generalities over specifics. My wife took the Itme to contact the pharma when the specialist wouldnt listen encourage you to take control over your health and use providers to help you not direct you.
 
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HawkGold said:
Our kids had their vaccines. Not all of them in the timing the doctor wanted. Doctors are sometimes sloppy against real data. Not as simple as yes or no, but sometimes when.

I don't do flu vax.

My daughter in hospital was in part there to medication. The doctor didn't read the fine print. And he looked at generalities over specifics. My wife took the Itme to contact the pharma when the specialist wouldnt listen encourage you to take control over your health and use providers to help you not direct you.
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There are people who react poorly to vaccines which is why there is a checklist to make sure the person giving the shot can discuss this with people.
 
tksirius said:
No way in hell you are up to date on your vaccinations according to the CDC's schedule. In other words, you are an anti-vaxxer.
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You would lose that bet. Because I was a member of my companies emergency response team, I have had the hepatitus vaccines.
 
My wife and kids get them, but I don't. Needles hurt too much. Plus, I could use some time off of work during the winter.
 
kicker22 said:
The problem with the flu shot is there's so many different strands its almost a coin toss to see whether the shot you get that year will be affective against the variation of the flu that hits that year. Due to my career I'd be a fool not to get the shot as I work directly with the public, and get a flu shot every year religiously. Unfortunately, two years ago I got the strand that the flu shot was supposed to be effective against and this year I ended up getting influenza B.

The flu shot will never be 100% effective, but then again neither are condons. I'll continue to get the shot and hope it works.
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That's just distilled water in those flu shot vaccines, and they are manufactured in China.
 
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