How good is Bryce?

[sportstalent]

Igonarance is bliss I guess

I guess if shooting 30% for 30 minutes a game makes you a better player than shooting 30% for 20 minutes a game, you have yourself an argument.

APBRmetrics are a much better stat for evaluating talent than just going by totals.

For example: using your argument, Matt Gatens was a superior offensive player last season than Marvin Williams was at UNC. Williams a had per game avg. of 11 pts per game. Gatens averaged over 12 points per game. Nevermind that Williams did his work in 22 mpg vs. 33 for Matt and shot the ball at a 50% fg pct and 43% 3pt vs. 39% fg pct and 33% 3pt.

Your argument defies logic.

You used one of my favorite statements "ignorance is bliss."

One question: Do you coach?

Just looking at the Iowa team as a whole, Bryce did look lost in non-conference play, but he played with purpose in Big Ten play. It doesn't mean his overall numbers improved, but there are multiple reasons for that.

The use of statistics can be overused and I do think in analyzing Bryce the use of stats can be skewed. It doesn't mean throw them out, but look at the big picture.

I cannot believe you used Marvin Williams of UNC to compare him with Matt Gatens...didn't UNC win the NC that season? Supporting cast can and does matter.

The big picture of Iowa basketball is that they are an improving team, if they weren't they don't beat MSU by 20 at home and then finish the year beating Purdue. Iowa had very few options last year and the one guy willing to attempt to step up was Bryce and nobody, nobody else.
Bryce improved as a descision maker, but wore down at the end of the season. It really is easy to force a guy into bad spots when the supporting cast can't hit an open shot or create anything themselves.
It does appear that Iowa will have a couple of people that will be able to create a little more this season, so with more options the one stat that I expect to change dramatically is turnovers. Bryce will probably score about the same and his assists may go down some, but not significantly as the turnovers should.

 

[smoot27]

I cannot believe you used Marvin Williams of UNC to compare him with Matt Gatens...didn't UNC win the NC that season? Supporting cast can and does matter.

Did you not understand the context of the comment? I used Marvin to show that just using per game stats means little. Of course Marvin is a superior player in all regards. That's why he was my example. If total per game stats mattered vs. advanced basketball metrics someone might think Gatens was better just because he scored more per game. The Gatens/Williams case is the same as saying Cartwright led the Big Ten in assists so he is the best passing pg.

 

[sportstalent]

Did you not understand the context of the comment? I used Marvin to show that just using per game stats mean little. Of course Marvin is a superior player in all regards. That's why he was my example. If total per game stats mattered vs. advanced basketball metrics someone might think Gatens was better just because he scored more per game.

I fully understood it, but was surprised you chose a player like Marvin Williams who played at UNC. Was there nobody from like say a team that was on the same level as Iowa that could show that...just curious?

 

[SirJamaLot]

Rankings are difficult because different guards are asked to do different things for each team, with that being said Bryce improved more than any player on the team from the start of the season till the end, He competes and plays hard and Fran wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game, he started the yr playing behind Cully and surpassed almost everyone else in playing time, does he have weaknesses? absolutely, but ask yourself where would the Hawkeyes be without him or if he gets hurt???

 

[9YRPLAN]

Rankings are difficult because different guards are asked to do different things for each team, with that being said Bryce improved more than any player on the team from the start of the season till the end, He competes and plays hard and Fran wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game, he started the yr playing behind Cully and surpassed almost everyone else in playing time, does he have weaknesses? absolutely, but ask yourself where would the Hawkeyes be without him or if he gets hurt???

but the stats dont show that!!!!!!!!!!!!!#%^%&*%^*^*^

 

[IAJay]

I don't accept the "given that Bryce is our 2nd or 3rd best player." He is equally as good as Basabe and gets the majority of our opponents attention every game.
Stop Cartwright, stop Iowa is the gameplan other teams use against us.
I think the guy is very clutch. Extremely fast. Has excellent court vision.
He will be our team leader this season as Gatens seems unwilling to fill that role.
I would not trade him for any guard in the conference. Does that make him the best PG? No. But he is the best for our team. Is he 1st team all big ten? No because our team just isn't that good. Is he headed for the NBA? No.
I love the guy and everything about his game. His stats don't sparkle but his intangibles are off the chart.

You wouldn't trade Cartwright for any other guard in the conference? That is just foolish.

 

[IAJay]

Rankings are difficult because different guards are asked to do different things for each team, with that being said Bryce improved more than any player on the team from the start of the season till the end, He competes and plays hard and Fran wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game, he started the yr playing behind Cully and surpassed almost everyone else in playing time, does he have weaknesses? absolutely, but ask yourself where would the Hawkeyes be without him or if he gets hurt???

If Cartwright gets hurt Iowa is effed. He is one of the most important players in the league due to Iowa lacking any back up point guard. It is not good that your back up point guard also happens to be the biggest black hole on the team. (fight between Marble and Basabe there)

 

[DaBears]

No were not effed, the walk-on from Kirkwood will start and lead us to a B1G title!

 

[1hawkeye1]

You wouldn't trade Cartwright for any other guard in the conference? That is just foolish.

No it certainly is not. My opinion is different than yours. That doesn't make me foolish. Just makes me right and you wrong.
Kidding. Clearly what I value in a PG is different from what you do. I love BC's leadership, speed, court-awareness just to name a few things. You do not.

 

[smoot27]

I fully understood it, but was surprised you chose a player like Marvin Williams who played at UNC. Was there nobody from like say a team that was on the same level as Iowa that could show that...just curious?

That defeats the purpose of the comparison. Williams only played 22 mpg because he was on a good team. My point was to show that mediocre players on bad teams like Cartwright and Garrett are elevated in stature by the fans because they play a more prominent role in the offense and more minutes than they would on a good team.

The other person on here said that per game stats determine the ability of a player which is false as proven by the examples of Gatens/Williams.

You need to look at advanced basketball metrics to see the true outcome.

If Cartwright is one of the better players on the team, it shows why we finished 10th in the conference. In reality he should be the 4th option offensively at best to have a successful season. I think the Cartwright lovers have a short memory or else are too young to remember what high quality pg's were (Lester, Woolridge, BJ). Even Oliver and Horner were superior to Cartwright and they were 3rd-4th best pg's in the conference.

 

[tm3308]

No it certainly is not. My opinion is different than yours. That doesn't make me foolish. Just makes me right and you wrong.
Kidding. Clearly what I value in a PG is different from what you do. I love BC's leadership, speed, court-awareness just to name a few things. You do not.

I think Jordan Taylor has all of those things, too. And he's got more overall ability, too. Taylor is head and shoulders above every point guard in the conference this year, and one of the best in the nation. He's not McCamey, who had outstanding talent and ZERO intangibles. Taylor has great talent AND intangibles. There is not one PG in the conference that I wouldn't give up to have Taylor.

 

[1hawkeye1]

I think Jordan Taylor has all of those things, too. And he's got more overall ability, too. Taylor is head and shoulders above every point guard in the conference this year, and one of the best in the nation. He's not McCamey, who had outstanding talent and ZERO intangibles. Taylor has great talent AND intangibles. There is not one PG in the conference that I wouldn't give up to have Taylor.

Yes he is quite good. I would not trade BC for him, though.
Not every player can carry the load when it is all on them. BC can.
Maybe Taylor can. I don't really know, though. BC definitely can and that's why I like him.

 

[9YRPLAN]

you are completely high and delusional if you wouldnt trade BC for Taylor.

no offense to high or delusional people.

 

[smoot27]

you are completely high and delusional if you wouldnt trade BC for Taylor.

no offense to high or delusional people.

I would trade BC and Gatens straight up for Taylor, but Wisconsin wouldn't be that dumb even if trading was an option.

 

[1hawkeye1]

you are completely high and delusional if you wouldnt trade BC for Taylor.

no offense to high or delusional people.

I love how some cannot accept anothers point of view, so they just hurl insults. Well done.

 

[smoot27]

I love how some cannot accept anothers point of view, so they just hurl insults. Well done.

When the points of view are utterly ignorant of reality they deserve every insult. You are arguing that you would keep the 4th-5th best pg in the conference for someone that could be the conference player of the year.

Taylor is so far ahead of Cartwright it's not even a topic worth discussing. What's next, Basabe over Sullinger?

 

[tm3308]

When the points of view are utterly ignorant of reality they deserve every insult. You are arguing that you would keep the 4th-5th best pg in the conference for someone that could be the conference player of the year.

Taylor is so far ahead of Cartwright it's not even a topic worth discussing. What's next, Basabe over Sullinger?

This. If Taylor were a headcase that's awful in the locker room, that would be one thing (see: McCamey). But he's not. He's as good a leader as any player in the country, and he's got great talent to boot. There is no rational reason to take Cartwright over him.

 

[smoot27]

This. If Taylor were a headcase that's awful in the locker room, that would be one thing (see: McCamey). But he's not. He's as good a leader as any player in the country, and he's got great talent to boot. There is no rational reason to take Cartwright over him.

I don't know much about McCamey's off court behavior, but his on court play is superior to Cartwright as well. He's a slightly more efficient passer and a far better shooter. We could have used a guard with his range.

 

[sportstalent]

Yes he is quite good. I would not trade BC for him, though.
Not every player can carry the load when it is all on them. BC can.
Maybe Taylor can. I don't really know, though. BC definitely can and that's why I like him.

He can and if you didn't see Wisconsin beat OSU last year then you completely missed him scoring somewhere around 20 straight points for them, it may have been more.
Also, Taylor was top 3 in scoring and was high in assists, then he rarely turned the ball over and can play good defense, granted he played for a better team, but he is no doubt the best PG in the BIG, then there are just the others. I will take Bryce at the top of the others, but nowhere near what Taylor can do. There is a HUGE gap between any other PG and Taylor.

 

[sportstalent]

That defeats the purpose of the comparison. Williams only played 22 mpg because he was on a good team. My point was to show that mediocre players on bad teams like Cartwright and Garrett are elevated in stature by the fans because they play a more prominent role in the offense and more minutes than they would on a good team.

The other person on here said that per game stats determine the ability of a player which is false as proven by the examples of Gatens/Williams.

You need to look at advanced basketball metrics to see the true outcome.

If Cartwright is one of the better players on the team, it shows why we finished 10th in the conference. In reality he should be the 4th option offensively at best to have a successful season. I think the Cartwright lovers have a short memory or else are too young to remember what high quality pg's were (Lester, Woolridge, BJ). Even Oliver and Horner were superior to Cartwright and they were 3rd-4th best pg's in the conference.

Understand what I am saying, find a more efficient player with a similar record. The numbers can be close to the same as ppg stats, but find an example of a player that was in a comparable situation that has good efficiency.
Steve Wojo at Duke may have good efficiency numbers, but he played for very good teams and was a liability in the NCAA tournament. I don't think the same would hold true if you put Bryce in that situation...don't know, but I do think Bryce is better than some efficiency numbers will show.