How good is Bryce?

I cannot for the life of me figure out why Hawk fans bang on Cartwright! He is damned good. Well above average for any D1 point guard, B1G or otherwise.
Anyone who disagrees with me is clearly wrong and is going to get a cyber punch in the nads from me.:D
Bryce is mutha-fuggin good. Ya' wanna go punk?
 


Statistics don't always tell the whole story. I think a lot of Cartwright's TO's came early in the year. His game drastically improved as the season went on and he got more comfortable with the level of the competition.
 


Byrce, is some sort of BIG TEN all conference,OR WE'RE IN TROUBLE!! he's our best returning player, running the show. The kid has handles and knows how to keep up with flashy and productive points!! ,He'll hold his own GUARANTEED!!!
 


We need to save this thread so we can take a look at how average Bryce will be this year as some claim. Revisit it at season's end.
 


He did get better as the year went on. I'm anxious to see how he does now that we're in year two of the Fran era. He'll be much more comfortable and I'm guessing the TO's will go down. He's definitely above average PG but nobody thinks he's going to be an NBA. He one of the better PG's in the league this year.
 


He is good, don't kid yourselves. Is he great? No, but he can create his own shot, had good handles and is clutch.
 


Cartwright is a solid, not spectacular PG and better than average in the BIG. It is easy to make a PG look bad when his options are limited. Iowa had no reliable outside shooter and teams began to overplay passing lanes to Basabe. There was no other real threat that put a scare into the opponents. Look for this to change with the freshman additions and Gatens remaining healthy as well as Marble developing a lot more. Bryce will get better looks if his team improves around him. There were a lot of times Bryce was the only option and he did force some shots and passes that were ill-advised, but I ask, who else was going to step up and make something happen? Simple answer, nobody. Basabe was limited offensively and turned the ball over more than he should have and Iowa couldn't make an open jump shot off of penetration the whole season with any regularity. Bryce is the second best PG in the BIG and if Iowa improves, so will all his statistics.
 


sportstalent said:
Cartwright is a solid, not spectacular PG and better than average in the BIG. It is easy to make a PG look bad when his options are limited. Iowa had no reliable outside shooter and teams began to overplay passing lanes to Basabe. There was no other real threat that put a scare into the opponents. Look for this to change with the freshman additions and Gatens remaining healthy as well as Marble developing a lot more. Bryce will get better looks if his team improves around him. There were a lot of times Bryce was the only option and he did force some shots and passes that were ill-advised, but I ask, who else was going to step up and make something happen? Simple answer, nobody. Basabe was limited offensively and turned the ball over more than he should have and Iowa couldn't make an open jump shot off of penetration the whole season with any regularity. Bryce is the second best PG in the BIG and if Iowa improves, so will all his statistics.
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There you have it....Excellent post, Sportstalent.

As far as not being a good PG for the Big Ten as some think, but being one of the best This year, what year are we dealing with this season.....

The only concern I personally have about Bryce is him staying injury free.
 


sportstalent said:
Cartwright is a solid, not spectacular PG and better than average in the BIG. It is easy to make a PG look bad when his options are limited. Iowa had no reliable outside shooter and teams began to overplay passing lanes to Basabe. There was no other real threat that put a scare into the opponents. Look for this to change with the freshman additions and Gatens remaining healthy as well as Marble developing a lot more. Bryce will get better looks if his team improves around him. There were a lot of times Bryce was the only option and he did force some shots and passes that were ill-advised, but I ask, who else was going to step up and make something happen? Simple answer, nobody. Basabe was limited offensively and turned the ball over more than he should have and Iowa couldn't make an open jump shot off of penetration the whole season with any regularity. Bryce is the second best PG in the BIG and if Iowa improves, so will all his statistics.
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The bolded sentence is spot on. Quit frankly, it is not too hard to rack up as many assists as he did when he was the only person on the roster who could create for others. I wish Iowa had a few more BC's on the roster and this is why it was such a big loss when the felon got ran out of town.

I wish I could see the stats of Big Ten pg's when adjusted for tempo. Iowa tries to create more possessions in a game than most B1G teams which is why BC had so many assists last year in the conference. This is a big reason why Jordan Taylor gets overlooked by the ESPN types. Wisky plays such a slow, methodical style that it is hard to rack up great stats when he doesn't have the possessions to put up bigger numbers. The computer guys think he is a god though.

My rankings of B1G PG's:
1.) Taylor- Wisconsin
2.) Appling- MSU
3.) Craft- OSU
4.) Richardson- ILL
5.) Cartwright
6.) Lew Jack- Purdue (too small)
7.) Frazier- PSU
8.) Spencer - UNL
9.) Hulls- Indiana
10.) Ahanmisi- Minn
11.) Burke- Michigan (frosh)
12.) Demps- NW (not really a true pg)

It is Taylor and everyone else. If Appling can take over the reigns he can be very good. The rest are pretty average.

The bottom line is that the B1G is going to suck this year which is why I think the Hawks can put up 17 or 18 wins.
 


MisterLucky said:
Statistics don't always tell the whole story. I think a lot of Cartwright's TO's came early in the year. His game drastically improved as the season went on and he got more comfortable with the level of the competition.
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False, his TO per minute played in non-conference play was .11 vs. his TO per minute of .11 in Big Ten play

His FG% in non-conference play was .397 vs .391 against the Big Ten

Rebounds per minute went from .10 to .09

His steals per minute dropped from .04 to .02

The only stat of importance that improved was assists going up from .16 to .20

This idea that homers on this board have that Cartwright became a drastically better player when Big Ten play started is not supported by fact. It seems that people are basing this more on his minutes per game increasing as the season wore on causing his total stats to grow.

He did improve his ARate a little which is a step in the right direction at least. Considering that Bryce's career stats are based off of playing for two different teams and he had a mediocre ARate/TORate differential and a poor shooting rate for both, shows little to believe he will improve much this year.

Bryce is a league average pg and would probably serve as a 6th man/back-up point on most legit teams. Given that he is our 2nd-3rd best player on a bad team and will be a focal point for our offense he may be able to win some subjective conference publicity, but I wouldn't expect his stat rates to improve a whole lot.
 


i could care less about per-minute stats. per-game stats are all that matters.

bryce was much better later in the year. he was bad on both offense and defense early on. later in the year he was only bad on defense. he is still of average speed and below average shooting.
 


I don't accept the "given that Bryce is our 2nd or 3rd best player." He is equally as good as Basabe and gets the majority of our opponents attention every game.
Stop Cartwright, stop Iowa is the gameplan other teams use against us.
I think the guy is very clutch. Extremely fast. Has excellent court vision.
He will be our team leader this season as Gatens seems unwilling to fill that role.
I would not trade him for any guard in the conference. Does that make him the best PG? No. But he is the best for our team. Is he 1st team all big ten? No because our team just isn't that good. Is he headed for the NBA? No.
I love the guy and everything about his game. His stats don't sparkle but his intangibles are off the chart.
 


9YRPLAN said:
i could care less about per-minute stats. per-game stats are all that matters.

bryce was much better later in the year. he was bad on both offense and defense early on. later in the year he was only bad on defense. he is still of average speed and below average shooting.
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You do realize that his per-game TO numbers would also have to rise. He averaged the same # of TO's per minute in conference play as he did in OOC. And he got more minutes in the conference slate because he wasn't splitting time with Cully.

And the bolded serves to disprove the idea that he's not THAT good (just a solid PG), how, exactly? He's average on speed, below average shooter, not good on defense. You can't be a great PG with those attributes to your name. He's solid, but nothing special.

Don't get me wrong, I love Cartwright. He's my favorite player on the team. But I also know that this team isn't very good, and being the best player doesn't necessarily say all that much.
 


I'm willing to give Cartwright a pass on the defensive issues, especially when he's playing 35+ a night.
 


9YRPLAN said:
i could care less about per-minute stats. per-game stats are all that matters.

bryce was much better later in the year. he was bad on both offense and defense early on. later in the year he was only bad on defense. he is still of average speed and below average shooting.
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Igonarance is bliss I guess :rolleyes:

I guess if shooting 30% for 30 minutes a game makes you a better player than shooting 30% for 20 minutes a game, you have yourself an argument.

APBRmetrics are a much better stat for evaluating talent than just going by totals.

For example: using your argument, Matt Gatens was a superior offensive player last season than Marvin Williams was at UNC. Williams a had per game avg. of 11 pts per game. Gatens averaged over 12 points per game. Nevermind that Williams did his work in 22 mpg vs. 33 for Matt and shot the ball at a 50% fg pct and 43% 3pt vs. 39% fg pct and 33% 3pt.

Your argument defies logic.
 


it doesnt defy logic because you have to consider what each player is contributing to his team nightly. iowa was a better, more competitive team when bryce was playing better late in the year. you have to put 200 minutes on the floor every night.

its fairly obvious that you didnt bother noticing that i was being critical of bryce. i said he is an average player at best. that doesnt mean he wasnt better later in the year, and anyone who actually watched the games would notice that.
 
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tm3308 said:
You do realize that his per-game TO numbers would also have to rise. He averaged the same # of TO's per minute in conference play as he did in OOC. And he got more minutes in the conference slate because he wasn't splitting time with Cully.

And the bolded serves to disprove the idea that he's not THAT good (just a solid PG), how, exactly? He's average on speed, below average shooter, not good on defense. You can't be a great PG with those attributes to your name. He's solid, but nothing special.

Don't get me wrong, I love Cartwright. He's my favorite player on the team. But I also know that this team isn't very good, and being the best player doesn't necessarily say all that much.
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again, i do not understand how someone read my comments and determined that i was giving cartwright too much credit. he is a mediocre player and i said as much. plus, i hate it when people rely on stats to back up every argument. what stat measures how many times he gets beat off the dribble, forcing a guy to rotate over and foul? there are way too many moving parts to rely on stats alone.
 


9YRPLAN said:
i could care less about per-minute stats. per-game stats are all that matters.
Click to expand...

You don't really believe this, unless you think Diante Garrett was one of the best players in all of basketball last year.

Edit: FWIW, Tempo adjusted stats are where it's at.
 
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BryceC said:
You don't really believe this, unless you think Diante Garrett was one of the best players in all of basketball last year.
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ill care about per-minute stats when they are statistically adjusted for a player's role within the context of his whole team.
 


BryceC said:
You don't really believe this, unless you think Diante Garrett was one of the best players in all of basketball last year.
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+1

The case of Diante Garrett is very similar to Bryce Cartwright. Extremely overrated by their fans because they capitalize on getting statistical volumes playing many minutes as a focal point on bad teams. Neither one is very efficient with the ball. Anytime you take a league avg. player and put him on a terrible team increasing his role in the offense and minutes, he is going to put up better numbers. That doesn't make the guy better.
 


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