How about a little consistency in the game?

[sioux34]

I was watching the championship game last night, and I was a little disgusted by what I saw. The battling for position under the basket looked like two heavyweight prize fighters slugging it out. No fouls were called. A slight reach in tap on the elbow when a player had the ball leads to an immediate whistle.

Anyone else have a problem with this?

 

[BergHawk7]

Ya I was amazed at how rough that game was. I felt there were a ton of no calls

 

[Section136]

I was watching the championship game last night, and I was a little disgusted by what I saw. The battling for position under the basket looked like two heavyweight prize fighters slugging it out. No fouls were called. A slight reach in tap on the elbow when a player had the ball leads to an immediate whistle.

Anyone else have a problem with this?

No. As long as they were consistent, which I thought they were, I dont have a problem with the officiating. Teams should adjust.

They were allowing physical play underneath but keeping the hands off of guys on the outside. I think that is how the game should be called.

 

[hawkfan1319]

The game got pretty rough at the end of the OSU game also. Kansas got away with alot of rough steals.

 

[sioux34]

See 136, I don't think you understand what consistent means. If a two hand shove in the back under the basket isn't a foul, why is a hand check at the top of the key a foul. That isn't consistent.

 

[DuffMan]

See 136, I don't think you understand what consistent means. If a two hand shove in the back under the basket isn't a foul, why is a hand check at the top of the key a foul. That isn't consistent.

Sioux, I understand what you are complaining about, and please don't take this the wrong way as I'm not trying to offend at all... Your big issue is you don't understand officiating on the macro level. Contact is expressly permissible under basketball rules. Contact that places the defender at a disadvantage or disrupts the speed, rhythm, and balance is penalized. The problem is the level of contact it takes to do that is different in all situations. As a result contact that happens under the basket is officiated differently than contact on a ball handler on the perimeter, which is different than contact on a cutting offensive player, which is different than contact on an air borne shooter. As a result the amount of contact required to be a foul is different for all those.

The person above nailed when they said all you can ask for is that the crew is consistent with what they allow under the basket for both teams, as well as on the perimeter for both teams, as well as on airborne shooters for both teams, as well as on cutters for both teams. I thought the officials did a terrific job of that last night. In fact it was probably one of the best officiated games I've seen all year.

 

[sioux34]

I say BS Duff.

 

[DuffMan]

I say BS Duff.

It's not BS. It's the truth. Think of it like this. While playing man defense against a guy in the post you have to body him up, and perhaps half front him by draping your body over one of his shoulders. Yet if you do that on a player with the ball it's likely to be a foul. You can't call that kind of contact a foul down low because you couldn't get through ten seconds without a whistle. Likewise you can't let a defender do that to a ball player or they would never be able to initiate the offense. You HAVE to have different standards of contact for a foul depending on where the player is on the court, and whether or not they have the ball.

I think what it boils down to is you are complaining about the wrong thing. You complained the officials weren't consistent (they were), but it looks like your complaint should have been they allowed too much rough play in the post, and you might have a decent argument for that. All I can tell you is they officiated the game like they felt the NCAA rules committee wanted the game officiated. I don't know if they got it right.

 

[Section136]

See 136, I don't think you understand what consistent means. If a two hand shove in the back under the basket isn't a foul, why is a hand check at the top of the key a foul. That isn't consistent.

They CONSISTENTLY called touch fouls on the outside and they CONSISTENTLY let them play pretty rough underneath.

Im fine with that.

 

[HomerChampless]

No. As long as they were consistent, which I thought they were, I dont have a problem with the officiating. Teams should adjust.

They were allowing physical play underneath but keeping the hands off of guys on the outside. I think that is how the game should be called.

I can't give specifics but I saw a Kansas guard body-bumped by Kentucky while taking a shot in the lane (no call) and I also saw a phantom swipe foul called on a Kentucky player as a Kansas guard laid in a breakaway basket.

 

[Section136]

I can't give specifics but I saw a Kansas guard body-bumped by Kentucky while taking a shot in the lane (no call) and I also saw a phantom swipe foul called on a Kentucky player as a Kansas guard laid in a breakaway basket.

So because you can think of 2 vague examples of possible missed calls then you think the game wasnt called consistently?

 

[DodgerHawki]

Every game you can find examples...

I can't give specifics but I saw a Kansas guard body-bumped by Kentucky while taking a shot in the lane (no call) and I also saw a phantom swipe foul called on a Kentucky player as a Kansas guard laid in a breakaway basket.

of missed calls. The speed of the game and the limitations of the human brain are going to make that a reality. On balance, however, I thought the game was officiated well. If no amount of physical play were allowed in the post, you might as well just make the game a H-O-R-S-E contest. The players are too skilled and too good to not permit any defensive contact whatsoever. The good refs, however, do permit freedom of movement by cutters and dribblers. I thought the guys last night did a good job of making those distinctions.

Duff gave a good explanation of how the game is officiated on the college and pro level (when it's done well). It isn't done like that (usually) at the high school level, as the players involved are not as good.

 

[HomerChampless]

So because you can think of 2 vague examples of possible missed calls then you think the game wasnt called consistently?

In those 2 cited instances, the game wasn't called consistantly. How many inconsistant calls are needed to consider the game to be called inconsistantly? I'd think the answer should be 1. Otherwise, some team, some player, some play has an advantage or disadvantage.

The refs facilitated at least 1 shot block that I can remember. One shot block should have been, instead, called a foul. During a rebounding flurry in the second half, Thomas Robinson got hacked on a shot block right underneath the basket.

 

[sioux34]

Duff, I'm not saying your explanation was BS, I am saying that when a player in the paint is bodily thrown to the ground it gives the player doing the throwing an unfair advantage, and that was not being called for either team. That type of rugby play in the paint is not good for the game in my opinion, especially in the light of the touch fouls called on the perimeter.

 

[DuffMan]

Duff, I'm not saying your explanation was BS, I am saying that when a player in the paint is bodily thrown to the ground it gives the player doing the throwing an unfair advantage, and that was not being called for either team. That type of rugby play in the paint is not good for the game in my opinion, especially in the light of the touch fouls called on the perimeter.

ok, then it was as I said, its not the consistency you should be criticizing, its the rough post play.

 

[sioux34]

Duff, to my mind, letting players get tackled in the lane and calling fouls for minor touches on the perimeter is not consistent. I understand your argument about not being able to call all the contact in the paint, but then don't call all the ***** stuff out front.

 

[DuffMan]

Duff, to my mind, letting players get tackled in the lane and calling fouls for minor touches on the perimeter is not consistent. I understand your argument about not being able to call all the contact in the paint, but then don't call all the ***** stuff out front.

do you agree that differing levels of physicality should be allowed down low versus on the perimeter?

 

[sioux34]

To some extent sure, but it was worlds apart in all of the final four games.

 

[DuffMan]

ok, then we agree you are I'm with different levels of permissible contact, you just wanted something different down low. again that's not a consistency argument, its an argument for cleaner post play. its an argument I happen to agree with.

 

[racerhawk]

I was watching the championship game last night, and I was a little disgusted by what I saw. The battling for position under the basket looked like two heavyweight prize fighters slugging it out. No fouls were called. A slight reach in tap on the elbow when a player had the ball leads to an immediate whistle.

Anyone else have a problem with this?

I thought that early in the game, Kansas was getting butchered when they went inside and fouls weren't being called. I thought that gave UK an early advantage. Just my opinion.