Hope Big 10 stays at 12

[brett108]

This is such a silly argument.

It doesn't matter in the least how much each conference makes in TV revenue. What actually matters how much they maker per team. The problem with adding Mizzou is that they lower the B1G's TV revenue per team.

Adding ND, everyone makes more. Adding some reactionary block of 4 schools, everyone makes less.

Iowa should hope this is not all about the money. Then you start replacing schools with higher revenue earners. Fact is Mizzou REPLACING Iowa in the Big 10 makes every school more money. I find this funny on a Hawkeye board since you contribute the least to your conferences vaunted TV coffers(with the exception of NW, but they have Ivy League Academics, and can be the vanderbilt of the conference).

 

[Clark]

Iowa should hope this is not all about the money. Then you start replacing schools with higher revenue earners. Fact is Mizzou REPLACING Iowa in the Big 10 makes every school more money. I find this funny on a Hawkeye board since you contribute the least to your conferences vaunted TV coffers(with the exception of NW, but they have Ivy League Academics, and can be the vanderbilt of the conference).

Iowa has more people than Nebraska. The Big 10 doesn't need both of Purdue and Indiana, or Michigan State for that matter as those tv sets are accounted for.

Not that there is any point in this ridiculousness as ZERO schools have EVER been kicked out of a BCS conference.

 

[Lyddea]

Iowa should hope this is not all about the money. Then you start replacing schools with higher revenue earners. Fact is Mizzou REPLACING Iowa in the Big 10 makes every school more money. I find this funny on a Hawkeye board since you contribute the least to your conferences vaunted TV coffers(with the exception of NW, but they have Ivy League Academics, and can be the vanderbilt of the conference).

Athletic department revenue in 2010:

15. Iowa - $88,735,093.00
...
down
...
further down
...
41. Missouri - $61,052,303.00

You sir, know not of what you speak.

 

[brett108]

Athletic department revenue in 2010:

15. Iowa - $88,735,093.00
...
down
...
further down
...
41. Missouri - $61,052,303.00

You sir, know not of what you speak.

This is based off what you bring to the TV market there genius. Iowa gets plenty of instate support, but they provide almost nothing to the TV market(more than Purdue, but you are the smallest state in terms of population in the Big 10). If Iowa shared some of their donor and ticket revenue, and other marketing revenue, with the rest of the league it would be different, but they profit from other states big cities and bank a surprising amount from other venues. Iowa has the sweetest deal in the Big 10.

Also agree this is moot as no one gets kicked out of a conference, but this whole realignment thing is just crazy, so any idea can go at this point.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

Iowa has more people than Nebraska. The Big 10 doesn't need both of Purdue and Indiana, or Michigan State for that matter as those tv sets are accounted for.

Not that there is any point in this ridiculousness as ZERO schools have EVER been kicked out of a BCS conference.

Temple football wishes this were true.

 

[brett108]

Temple football wishes this were true.

Forgot about that craziness, but I honestly don't think this will happen. I just find it funny that the fans of the teams that bring little to the TV revenue of a conference are vehemently opposed to a team that control their state, which is twice as large as Iowa, and brings a comparable academiuc end as well. Iowa is very lucky to have a commisioner like Delaney, who pioneered the conference network monetization. he was widely laughed at when he started the venture, and now looks like a savant. A savant who need a hairstyle change(just shave those sides man..), but a savant nontheless.

 

[Clark]

This is based off what you bring to the TV market there genius. Iowa gets plenty of instate support, but they provide almost nothing to the TV market(more than Purdue, but you are the smallest state in terms of population in the Big 10). If Iowa shared some of their donor and ticket revenue, and other marketing revenue, with the rest of the league it would be different, but they profit from other states big cities and bank a surprising amount from other venues. Iowa has the sweetest deal in the Big 10.

Also agree this is moot as no one gets kicked out of a conference, but this whole realignment thing is just crazy, so any idea can go at this point.

No we aren't

Temple football wishes this were true.

Damn you.

 

[Lyddea]

This is based off what you bring to the TV market there genius. Iowa gets plenty of instate support, but they provide almost nothing to the TV market(more than Purdue, but you are the smallest state in terms of population in the Big 10). If Iowa shared some of their donor and ticket revenue, and other marketing revenue, with the rest of the league it would be different, but they profit from other states big cities and bank a surprising amount from other venues. Iowa has the sweetest deal in the Big 10.

Also agree this is moot as no one gets kicked out of a conference, but this whole realignment thing is just crazy, so any idea can go at this point.

You are confusing the TV market a team brings with the TV market that lives in the same state as that school.

More people watch Iowa football than watch Mizzou football. You might remember this from last year - more people watch Nebraska football than watch Mizzou football, and who was it that got that B1G invite?

 

[ICHawk24]

Temple was never a full member of the Big East. No full conference member has ever been kicked out of a BCS conference.

 

[Clark]

Temple was never a full member of the Big East. No full conference member has ever been kicked out of a BCS conference.

whew. got off on a technicality

 

[ColumbusHawk]

If the SEC and Pac12 go to 16 the Big10 would not be able to sit with 12 and remain competitive in TV revenue. Realistically we have to expand as well. I hope WV is the next team in because I think Mizzou would be an excellent addition.

I think we are only a few years away from an 8 team NCAA football playoff.

4 automatic qualifiers from the Super 4, and 4 at large births each year that could go to super 4 teams or teams outside the super 4 like Boise, TCU last year, etc.

This is a complete fallacy. Everybody throws out these names without answering the $30 million question. The Big Ten is not going to add Missouri, West Virginia, etc. for its existing members to receive less revenue.

It is anticipated that every Big Ten member, except for Nebraska, will receive well over $25 million in revenue sharing funds this academic year. ABC/ESPN will pay the Big Ten $220 million, Fox Sports will pay $24 million for the championship game, & the Big Ten Network will generate another $80 to $100 million in revenue. Using the low BTN revenue estimates yields $27 million per school. It's not exact, but pretty damn close.

By adding Nebraska, it is estimated that the Big Ten increased the revenue sharing pool by over $30 million a year. Fox Sports is paying the Big Ten $24 million a year for the championship football game. With the payout from the championship game, the addition of the 12th team was relatively easy. Further expansion will be more difficult. Very few schools would add an instant $24 million a year to the Big Ten coffers.

The Big Ten is the most interesting conference to look at when it comes to ticket revenue, because it is the only conference that still engages in revenue sharing when it comes to gate receipts. Michigan, Penn State and Ohio State do not get the full benefit of having three of the largest football stadiums in college football.

The Big Ten shares gate receipts from both football and men’s basketball. For football, schools contribute 35% of the gate receipts for all home games against conference opponents. The minimum contribution per game is $300,000 and the maximum is $1 million, making the maximum for the season $4 million. The pool is divided equally between all schools.

Here is what each team in the Big Ten school contributed for the 2009 football season:

Penn State Univ. $4,000,000.00
Univ. of Michigan $4,000,000.00
Ohio State Univ. $4,000,000.00
Univ. of Iowa $3,700,000.00
Univ. of Wisconsin $3,600,000.00
Michigan State Univ. $3,600,000.00
Univ. of Illinois $2,400,000.00
Purdue Univ. $2,200,000.00
Univ. of Minnesota $2,100,000.00
Indiana Univ. $1,600,000.00
Northwestern Univ. $1,200,000.00

As a result, some schools are recipients under the revenue sharing program and others are payers. The distribution for football after the 2009 season was $2.95 million per school, meaning Illinois, Purdue, Minnesota, Indiana and Northwestern were net recipients. It is important to note that Indiana's football team was subsidized to the tune of $1.35 million & Northwestern received $1.75 million in subsidizes.

Nebraska will contribute between $3.8 to $4 million to the pool this year. Any additional schools will have to be payers to the revenue sharing program & not recipients.

The capacity at Missouri & West Virginia is 61,000 & 60,000, respectively, or about the same as Illinois. Missouri & West Virginia would have to sell out every Big Ten game not to be a recipient. Even then they would be a wash, the schools would be either slight payers or slight recipients.

Plus, the additional football games & basketball games to be televised by the BTN will add at least another $2 million a year to the treasury.

The Big Ten's next TV deal will blow the Pac 12's out of the water. The Pac 12 recently signed a twelve-year deal with FOX & ESPN for $250 million a year. Even with California, the Big Ten has more households & deeper market penetration than the Pac 12.

The Big Ten already is positioning itself for negotaitions after its current TV deal expires after the 2016 season. Notice the Big Ten is going to a nine game season in 2017. Do you think additional Iowa-Wisconsin, Michigan-Penn State & Nebraska-Ohio State games that would not have been played with an eight game schedule has anything to do with futher TV negotiations? I don't.

Please, before you mention a school for expansion, answer the $30 million question. Missouri is like the biggest nerd in high school wanting to go to the prom with the hottest girl. It ain't gonna happen. West Virginia is like the biggest nerd in junior high hoping the hottest girl in high school asks him to the prom.

The Big Ten is sitting back, watching this whole mess, laughing & counting its money. The whole reason this is happening, is that everybody wants to be in the Big Ten or in a conference that generates revenue like the Big Ten. They all want to be able to print money.

 

[brett108]

You are confusing the TV market a team brings with the TV market that lives in the same state as that school.

More people watch Iowa football than watch Mizzou football. You might remember this from last year - more people watch Nebraska football than watch Mizzou football, and who was it that got that B1G invite?

Who cares who watches what? I don't disagree, but this is about the money the network is making. Guess what, if every cable subscriber in Iowa picks up the Big Ten network, they get # X Fee. Simple right. Now apply this to Missouri. They get # X fee as well, except their number is twice the size of Iowas. Iowa may have more viewers, but unless they all have Nielsen boxes advertisers are not going to pay more, and the revenue is more a product of the amount of subscribers paying the carriage fee.

 

[74Hunter]

This is a complete fallacy. Everybody throws out these names without answering the $30 million question.....

Great post, and you bring up some great and very interesting points.

However, if the B1G sits back and only gets to scoop up leftovers, it may not add anything of value to the conference. If it is proactive and can get some good programs (ND, Mizzou, Pitt, etc) it can name it's numbers. And I think that if the SEC and PAC go to 16, the B1G will have to follow suit.

I guess we shall see.

 

[brett108]

Great post, and you bring up some great and very interesting points.

However, if the B1G sits back and only gets to scoop up leftovers, it may not add anything of value to the conference. If it is proactive and can get some good programs (ND, Mizzou, Pitt, etc) it can name it's numbers. And I think that if the SEC and PAC go to 16, the B1G will have to follow suit.

I guess we shall se.

Big 10 only has to go to 16 if they work out a plus one system. Then you can have 4-16 team leagues each crown a champion, set them up in two bowl games, and make the winners play.

This assumes that the conferences really want a true national champion. The current bowl system makes the teams a ton of money, and changing it drastically may not be in the interest of all. The plus one is a minor change though.

 

[Lyddea]

Who cares who watches what? I don't disagree, but this is about the money the network is making. Guess what, if every cable subscriber in Iowa picks up the Big Ten network, they get # X Fee. Simple right. Now apply this to Missouri. They get # X fee as well, except their number is twice the size of Iowas. Iowa may have more viewers, but unless they all have Nielsen boxes advertisers are not going to pay more, and the revenue is more a product of the amount of subscribers paying the carriage fee.

Wrong again. BTN makes more money from advertising than it does from its carriage fees, and advertising revenue depends on viewers. At some point you need to square your beliefs with, at least, the reality that low-pop Nebraska was invited over Mizzou last year, right?

The Value of Expansion Candidates to the Big Ten Network FRANK THE TANK’S SLANT

 

[74Hunter]

Big 10 only has to go to 16 if they work out a plus one system. Then you can have 4-16 team leagues each crown a champion, set them up in two bowl games, and make the winners play.

This assumes that the conferences really want a true national champion. The current bowl system makes the teams a ton of money, and changing it drastically may not be in the interest of all. The plus one is a minor change though.

I know that everyone is assuming that 4-16 team leagues will lead to a playoff, but if this is all about money, the crappy bowl system may not be going anywhere.

Unless a 3 game playoff will pay more than the BCS.

 

[ColumbusHawk]

Who cares who watches what? I don't disagree, but this is about the money the network is making. Guess what, if every cable subscriber in Iowa picks up the Big Ten network, they get # X Fee. Simple right. Now apply this to Missouri. They get # X fee as well, except their number is twice the size of Iowas. Iowa may have more viewers, but unless they all have Nielsen boxes advertisers are not going to pay more, and the revenue is more a product of the amount of subscribers paying the carriage fee.

You can't compare Iowa & Missouri. Iowa already is a member of the conference. If Iowa & Missouri both wanted to join the Big Ten, there is probably little doubt that Missouri would be the better choice. However, Missouri is on the outside looking in. Don't even get into that argument because it is meaningless.

The fact that Missouri could generate more revenue than Iowa is irrelevant. Missouri has to show that it can increase Michigan's, Penn State's, Ohio State's & everybody else's revenue.

Missouri is very envious of Iowa. There is no way Missouri can show that it is worth at least $30 million a year to the Big Ten.

 

[herky01]

Iowa should hope this is not all about the money. Then you start replacing schools with higher revenue earners. Fact is Mizzou REPLACING Iowa in the Big 10 makes every school more money. I find this funny on a Hawkeye board since you contribute the least to your conferences vaunted TV coffers(with the exception of NW, but they have Ivy League Academics, and can be the vanderbilt of the conference).

You were obviously educated in the Missouri public school system...

 

[silvanthalas]

Unless a 3 game playoff will pay more than the BCS.

It would, and everybody knows it and has admitted as much.

 

[ColumbusHawk]

Great post, and you bring up some great and very interesting points.

However, if the B1G sits back and only gets to scoop up leftovers, it may not add anything of value to the conference. If it is proactive and can get some good programs (ND, Mizzou, Pitt, etc) it can name it's numbers. And I think that if the SEC and PAC go to 16, the B1G will have to follow suit.

I guess we shall see.

One of the things I was trying to point out is that there are very few schools that would add value to the Big Ten. Missouri I don't think would add any value. Pitt would add even less value than Missouri. Pitt only averages about 52,000 fans a game. Plus, the Big Ten already dominates the Pennsylvania TV market with Penn State.

Think big. A school that has a stadium with a capacity of at least 70,000 & will increase the TV market by about ten percent, adds virtually very little if anything to the Big Ten.

Look at it this way, Kinnick is now the seventh largest stadium in the conference. Behind, in no particular order, Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn State & Wisconsin. Yet, Iowa was 21st in the country in attendance last year.

Nebraska's TV market maybe smaller than Iowa's, but it brought in $24 million with the championship game & a stadium that seats 86,304 people.

Read Mark Cuban's blog. It is very interesting. From a revenue standpoint, more than twelve teams makes no financial sense.