Hilton vs Carver
- Thread starter Bigtenchamp
- Start date
bcl20
Well-Known Member
There obviously is home court advantage but I've always thought it had more to do with familiarity of surroundings and not having to travel and what not. This is a ****** example but when i played sports in high school i never felt completely comfortable on the road even if there were 100 fans who didn't care.
bcl20
Well-Known Member
Bad teams with passionate fans are still bad teams. Illinois loses at home a lot this year. Indiana when they were down lost more than iowa who had lickliter. Again, home court advantage is real but while it's hard to measure how much of it is due to a loud crowd i doubt it's much.
mopkins
King Kong
I just looked up the attendance numbers so far this year, not including exhibition games. These numbers are almost for sure PAID attendance, not actual attendance.
Carver: 13 games, 176,728 people, avg of 13,594, 0 losses
Hilton: 13 games, 185,174, avg of 14,244, 2 losses
So Iowa State averages around 650 more people per game and have lost 2 more games than Iowa (to Baylor and WV). So really its not as drastic as some might think.
Also, Carver holds 1,000 more people than Hilton does, so by the time the season is over, the two teams will have nearly identical paid attendance assuming Iowa sell outs vs Wisconsin and Indiana, which is virtually guaranteed.
Carver: 13 games, 176,728 people, avg of 13,594, 0 losses
Hilton: 13 games, 185,174, avg of 14,244, 2 losses
So Iowa State averages around 650 more people per game and have lost 2 more games than Iowa (to Baylor and WV). So really its not as drastic as some might think.
Also, Carver holds 1,000 more people than Hilton does, so by the time the season is over, the two teams will have nearly identical paid attendance assuming Iowa sell outs vs Wisconsin and Indiana, which is virtually guaranteed.
Fryowa
Administrator
It's sad, but it's a fact that the vast majority of teen/20's don't care about sports anymore. You're not going to change it; it's just the way the world is today. Hate to say it but we live in a world of twitter and facebook now, and if it can't be done from a dorm room or frat house on your iPhone, they're not going to take part. Why would you want to go to an actual physical place, where you have to interact with actual people, when you could be on the couch drinking vodka Red Bulls and Snapchatting selfies to your girlfriend, all while playing Call of Duty from the comfort of your own dorm?
Besides, you're going to get updates on the game from the ESPN app anyway, right? If Uthoff takes it to the hole and windmill dunks on Valentine they'll even send you a video clip of it. Why would you want to go to the game?
sioux34
Well-Known Member
It is hard to win on the road because being on the road takes you out of your routine. You are traveling, sleeping in a strange bed, eating at different times and places, shooting against a different background. Those are the real reasons it is hard to win on the road.
STILLBUSTER
Well-Known Member
I get what you're saying, but, games are more than just a competition to determine a winner. If that's their sole intent, that can be accomplished behind closed doors in small local gyms with no seating. Games are just as much about being a money-making entertainment event that Universities want you to attend (pay admission to, purchase gear, consume concessions). Not only do they want you to attend, it's very important that they get you to want to attend.
In that regard, a huge part of these games' existence is about the fans' experience. While you scorn the fan being a part of the event, a huge part of the fan experience is being part of the event.
I also accept your point about marginal differences in average attendance have little to no impact on the outcome of the game -- a 1000 fans out of 15,500 is not that big of deal. I disagree with you when that number grows to say 3000? 5000 fans? That does have a noticeable impact on the environment and the team's performance. If it doesn't, why do so many post-game comments from players and coaches mention the fans and the environment?
These guys aren't playing the game just to compete; they're playing the game to be watched and cheered while they compete. It definitely impacts their performance to be appreciated ... or not. Otherwise, again, if all performance is self-motivated and assessment only comes from within, who needs any crowd to validate it?
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
There are studies that anyone can google that speak to the effects of crowd noise in the game. The density of crowd noise has an impact on the players and officiating.
Here is one I found: http://believeperform.com/education/crowd-and-the-home-advantage/
Here is one I found: http://believeperform.com/education/crowd-and-the-home-advantage/
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
If you are playing 40% to 50% of your games on the road wouldn't you have a "routine" for away games? I can see that having more of an impact on freshman than anybody.
I get you used to play college ball but you mean to tell me that where you slept and what time/place you ate at had an impact on you once you stepped out on the court?
I understand your stance on crowd noise though, as an ex-player you conditioned yourself to believe it had no impact on you.
bcl20
Well-Known Member
Citation needed
SteveGarvey
Well-Known Member
Refs are more likely to swallow their whistle on a call that might negatively effect the team with the louder crowd and more likely to blow it on the other team if it helps the team the crowd is cheering for. They don't do it to cheat but on a subconscious level, to gain the approval of the fans.
A guy for Sports Illustrated did a study on it and it was in the magazine 3-4 years ago.
So, I'd say there is a marginal advantage for Hilton when it's fans go crazy, over CHA when it sounds like a library.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
I'm sure there's a very great deal of truth to that, but it doesn't seem to stop MD's students from showing up and making a ton of noise. And the game I saw where Nebby hosted MD - seemed they were pretty loud as well. Why can't Iowa's students do the same? That's what I don't get.
If students of other teams can do it, so can ours. There's really no excuse for it in my mind. Facebook will still be there when the game is over.
Again, my point is not about those who don't show - it's about those who go to the game and just sit there doing nothing, or texting, etc.
Fryowa
Administrator
Ahh, a source nazi for observational conversation. That's fancy.
I apologize. I guess I was under the (apparently incorrect) assumption that in a place as crude and informal as a college message board you'd understand the difference between conjecture and a research paper.
I suppose I could have started all my sentences with, "In my opinion," or "I believe," or "If you ask me," but my 5th grade English teacher told me that those phrases delay the message, demonstrate the writer's insecurity, and they tell the reader what he already knows. My fault.
To answer your post, I don't have a source for that. If you ask me, I believe it is my uncitable opinion that most young people don't care about sports as much as they used to. Does that work better?
Fryowa
Administrator
I think in a case of a team like Maryland, Kentucky, Indiana, etc, those places have a long history of being excellent basketball schools and not so much in other sports. I know it sounds flippant but a Kentucky doesn't have any other major market sport to cheer for. And the one they do excel at, they're usually a national powerhouse. I think what it would take to get excited butts back in the seats would be to string a few seasons together going deep into the tournament. Then people would get that kind of feeling for the Hawks.
I'd argue that Iowa is on the flip side of the coin when it comes to football. Kinnick gets absolutely hopping for football games but there's some history of relative success going back a while.
Keep in mind that I agree with you. If I had gone to UoI I would have been at every football and basketball game yelling my butt off.
mopkins
King Kong
What doesn't make sense to me is Nebraska. Their fans are loud and engaged and excited, the place almost always sells out, and they've basically always sucked at basketball. Why is it that their crowd and students are totally into what is going on and screaming, but Iowa fans and students just aren't?
Hell, even the Minnesota student section dresses up like animals (they play in "the barn") and do synchronized chants and get really loud....and their team f'ing SUCKS. Illinois has great crowds too and their team is pretty bad this year.
I guess my point is that there seems to be something specific to the Iowa student and fan culture in general that's different to these other schools. I don't know what it is. Are tickets more expensive? Are the student seats that much worse? Does the U of I not do as much to get the students involved that other schools do? Does Fran not do as much as other coaches do? Have fans not forgotten the Alford scandals and Lickliter era?
For the record I dont know the answer to any of those questions...I just know what I see on tv.
sioux34
Well-Known Member
I can tell you that when I played, the noise of the crowd rarely even entered my consciousness. I was listening to my coaches and teammates and could not tell you what the crowd was like except maybe during stoppages in play. Your mileage may vary.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
You and Fryowa both make good points. i'm sure Fryowa is correct that a few big years would really help our fan enthusiasm and certain programs have that tradition that builds a rabid fan base (it's got to be a factor) but even prior to this year, Iowa has been competitive. NCAA last two years. Iowa is Top 5 this year with only 5 games left - where's the enthusiasm? There's just something wrong/missing in Carver's crowds, and I don't know what that "something" is.
I don't know, maybe it's the stink of the Alford/Lick years, but as we've said.. Nebraska. They've never really been any good. Certainly not in recent history. Maybe it's worse when you used to be good, and then stunk for 15 years, as was our case, but I'm just taking shots in the dark at this point.
What I do believe, is that if everyone in the arena was as passionate as most of us on this board are, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
mopkins
King Kong
yeah its just sorta frustrating to me living in Minneapolis now since there's not much I can do about it. Maybe I need to relocate back to Iowa... 
My one conspiracy theory is that with Carver's weird in-ground setup and the stands just going straight back instead of up, the noise doesn't bounce around as much so it isn't as loud as other true arenas. I have zero facts to back that up but it makes sense in my head and it makes me feel better about our fans.
My one conspiracy theory is that with Carver's weird in-ground setup and the stands just going straight back instead of up, the noise doesn't bounce around as much so it isn't as loud as other true arenas. I have zero facts to back that up but it makes sense in my head and it makes me feel better about our fans.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
yeah its just sorta frustrating to me living in Minneapolis now since there's not much I can do about it. Maybe I need to relocate back to Iowa...
My one conspiracy theory is that with Carver's weird in-ground setup and the stands just going straight back instead of up, the noise doesn't bounce around as much so it isn't as loud as other true arenas. I have zero facts to back that up but it makes sense in my head and it makes me feel better about our fans.
And I'm in Tampa, FL - maybe I need to come back too.
Yeah, I'm not sure about Carver's acoustics, but I just felt that the crowds were a lot better a long time ago. Even if you watch this video, say from the 5:00-7:00 minute mark or so.. The crowd just seemed so much more responsive and into it whenever Iowa would score and go on a little run. But of course, Iowa was at the end of a pretty good decade of basketball, as well. Can't really say that now, even if the last couple years have been good.
Don't know, maybe Alf/Lick did more damage than I realize.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3IE8ndVkZA
