Hey Fry, an IHSAA update!

[Fryowa]

I don't blame them either. The difference is that they don't have the low SES kids, which eliminates 42% (state average) of what a public school would have. 24% of low SES kids participate in athletics and 32% of those participate in more than 1 sport. If 2 schools have 150 kids 9-11, privates have 150 non-SES kids, while a public school would have 87. The problem is, they would both be playing in the same class, but the playing field isn't level.

Along with that, privates also don't have to count all of their kids because of how scholarship and non-scholarship kids are counting. Getting in transfers in a public school would make their BEDS count go up, which would move them up a class. That's all people are asking for, to have the private schools play up a class or use a multiplier to bump up their BEDS to level the playing field, in terms of enrollment.

We have enough private schools for them to have their own conferences. IMO they should have a separate league and have their own separate postseason

 

[BryceC]

I don't blame them either. The difference is that they don't have the low SES kids, which eliminates 42% (state average) of what a public school would have. 24% of low SES kids participate in athletics and 32% of those participate in more than 1 sport. If 2 schools have 150 kids 9-11, privates have 150 non-SES kids, while a public school would have 87. The problem is, they would both be playing in the same class, but the playing field isn't level.

Along with that, privates also don't have to count all of their kids because of how scholarship and non-scholarship kids are counting. Getting in transfers in a public school would make their BEDS count go up, which would move them up a class. That's all people are asking for, to have the private schools play up a class or use a multiplier to bump up their BEDS to level the playing field, in terms of enrollment.

Agree with you 100%. But that’s a separate issue than the transfer thing.

 

[Fryowa]

I don't blame them either. The difference is that they don't have the low SES kids, which eliminates 42% (state average) of what a public school would have. 24% of low SES kids participate in athletics and 32% of those participate in more than 1 sport. If 2 schools have 150 kids 9-11, privates have 150 non-SES kids, while a public school would have 87. The problem is, they would both be playing in the same class, but the playing field isn't level.

Along with that, privates also don't have to count all of their kids because of how scholarship and non-scholarship kids are counting. Getting in transfers in a public school would make their BEDS count go up, which would move them up a class. That's all people are asking for, to have the private schools play up a class or use a multiplier to bump up their BEDS to level the playing field, in terms of enrollment.

2 or 3 years ago (can't remember which), 31 of the 32 teams in the state baseball tournament were in the top half of the free/reduced in the state. It's more than just privates/public, it's about SES. The system needs to be overhauled. Of course, which schools are going to buy more tickets/merch, etc?

Should Solon and South Tama be in the same class? I realize the state only uses 9-11, but the numbers I have are K-12, but the point remains. Solon has 1438 students K-12, while South Tama has 1345, very similar. However, Solon has 76 free/reduced kids K-12, while STC has 772. I'll ask again, should they be playing in the same class just because they have the same number of bodies in seats?

That's why I mentioned earlier that it only works sort of okay-ish.

And it's another reason why a private corporation shouldn't be running things. Money is their first (and only) motivation, and because of that they make decisions that aren't based in logic. When they went to the BEDS thing it was basically a thrown-together half-measure to look like they're doing something about a problem and get people off their backs, for the least amount of expense and hassle.

Same thing with Iowa's pitch count limits. Pitch counts were becoming en vogue and a few people bitched that we didn't have any. So the IAHSAA just adopted the east coast model and called it good with no research, no work put into it. The east coast has a population density 50 times higher than Iowa and it works for them. It doesn't work here if--like a lot of towns in Iowa--you have 16 kids going out for baseball 9-12. The IAHSAA's answer to that is "Do more to encourage participation"...the cheap and easy answer. Even if I had 100 kids out in HS, unless they all played lots of youth ball and can pitch it doesn't solve a thing. Can't just go out as a freshman or even 8th grader and just learn to pitch.

I'm digressing though, and I apologize. The IAHSAA ruffles my feathers and I shouldn't let it anymore. I have zero vested interest anymore and never will again. Let's go fishing.

 

[99topdawg]

We have enough private schools for them to have their own conferences. IMO they should have a separate league and have their own separate postseason

Absolutely. It's never going to happen with those in charge, so I'll take anything at this point.

 

[99topdawg]

That's why I mentioned earlier that it only works sort of okay-ish.

And it's another reason why a private corporation shouldn't be running things. Money is their first (and only) motivation, and because of that they make decisions that aren't based in logic. When they went to the BEDS thing it was basically a thrown-together half-measure to look like they're doing something about a problem and get people off their backs, for the least amount of expense and hassle.

Same thing with Iowa's pitch count limits. Pitch counts were becoming en vogue and a few people bitched that we didn't have any. So the IAHSAA just adopted the east coast model and called it good with no research, no work put into it. The east coast has a population density 50 times higher than Iowa and it works for them. It doesn't work here if--like a lot of towns in Iowa--you have 16 kids going out for baseball 9-12. The IAHSAA's answer to that is "Do more to encourage participation"...the cheap and easy answer. Even if I had 100 kids out in HS, unless they all played lots of youth ball and can pitch it doesn't solve a thing. Can't just go out as a freshman or even 8th grader and just learn to pitch.

I'm digressing though, and I apologize. The IAHSAA ruffles my feathers and I shouldn't let it anymore. I have zero vested interest anymore and never will again. Let's go fishing.

The BEDS used to be even worse when the special ed kids didn't count as a full student because of the AEA services they received. When the count was taken for BEDS, if a special ed referral had been written but not resolved, that student didn't count as a full student either. There is a program near me that did this so they could play FB down a class and ended up winning the state championship. I'm not bitter though, because they didn't beat my team in the finals. It was the semi-finals. The other championship that coach won was manipulating the consolidation rule. If 2 schools consolidated after the classifications came out, you just played the schedule of the larger school. Basically, what would've been a big 2A school ended up winning class 1A. FB coaches hated him for what he did and what he was. The rest of the world thinks he was a saint.

 

[99topdawg]

That's why I mentioned earlier that it only works sort of okay-ish.

And it's another reason why a private corporation shouldn't be running things. Money is their first (and only) motivation, and because of that they make decisions that aren't based in logic. When they went to the BEDS thing it was basically a thrown-together half-measure to look like they're doing something about a problem and get people off their backs, for the least amount of expense and hassle.

Same thing with Iowa's pitch count limits. Pitch counts were becoming en vogue and a few people bitched that we didn't have any. So the IAHSAA just adopted the east coast model and called it good with no research, no work put into it. The east coast has a population density 50 times higher than Iowa and it works for them. It doesn't work here if--like a lot of towns in Iowa--you have 16 kids going out for baseball 9-12. The IAHSAA's answer to that is "Do more to encourage participation"...the cheap and easy answer. Even if I had 100 kids out in HS, unless they all played lots of youth ball and can pitch it doesn't solve a thing. Can't just go out as a freshman or even 8th grader and just learn to pitch.

I'm digressing though, and I apologize. The IAHSAA ruffles my feathers and I shouldn't let it anymore. I have zero vested interest anymore and never will again. Let's go fishing.

My opinion is that a school's enrollment should count the non free/reduced kids or a fraction of the free/reduced count. As you mentioned before, 40% is a joke.

Don't get me started on pitch counts. I long for the days when I could have a roster in the low 20's and still play 40 games. With a roster of 20, you can hardly play more than 3 games a week unless you have a pretty good staff. I had 4 pretty good ones last summer and 3 games a week was all we could handle, but we were pretty good in those 3 games. When we had a 4th game, we pretty much had to tank it.

 

[99topdawg]

Agree with you 100%. But that’s a separate issue than the transfer thing.

Yes it is. Basically, in the cities/suburbs, coaches start assembling kids when they're young and inviting them to play as a group all the way through. They all end up at the same HS. I know a school that got in 3 pitchers in 2 years and won state with them. Their #2 went to pitch in the Big Ten.

 

[Fryowa]

The BEDS used to be even worse when the special ed kids didn't count as a full student because of the AEA services they received. When the count was taken for BEDS, if a special ed referral had been written but not resolved, that student didn't count as a full student either. There is a program near me that did this so they could play FB down a class and ended up winning the state championship. I'm not bitter though, because they didn't beat my team in the finals. It was the semi-finals. The other championship that coach won was manipulating the consolidation rule. If 2 schools consolidated after the classifications came out, you just played the schedule of the larger school. Basically, what would've been a big 2A school ended up winning class 1A. FB coaches hated him for what he did and what he was. The rest of the world thinks he was a saint.

Sometimes I wonder if these smaller schools with elite sports are really in it for education or if they spend most of their time figuring out the best way to win as many contests as possible.

Not related to this topic but there's a very, very successful school near me with certain admin who actively encourages parents (unofficially of course) to hold their kids back from kindergarten as long as feasibly possible because of sports. You can find out which one if you go look at the ages of their seniors in both boys and girls sports. I've never seen so many 19 year olds on a roster in my entire life.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Sometimes I wonder if these smaller schools with elite sports are really in it for education or if they spend most of their time figuring out the best way to win as many contests as possible.

Not related to this topic but there's a very, very successful school near me with certain admin who actively encourages parents (unofficially of course) to hold their kids back from kindergarten as long as feasibly possible because of sports. You can find out which one if you go look at the ages of their seniors in both boys and girls sports. I've never seen so many 19 year olds on a roster in my entire life.

Not my mom, she wanted me out of the house so sent me to Kindergarten when I was 4. I was the youngest in my grade and I had kids a year behind me older than me. My birthday is in mid of September. I as you can imagine was undersized for football & basketball. Did what I could but it was a disadvantage.

It also sucked during times like when everybody got their permits or could drive mopeds around town or getting driver's license. I always had to wait a year. SUCKED like Nebby!!

 

[CP87]

Yup. How we’re the only state out of 50 with a private contractor running HS sports is honestly beyond my comprehension. It’s criminal.

Add $6 to every Iowa taxpayer’s bill each year and that’s $10,000,000. More than enough to employ people and run the HS sports administration with people not trying to steal money and make backroom deals with their friends.

Communist!

 

[99topdawg]

Sometimes I wonder if these smaller schools with elite sports are really in it for education or if they spend most of their time figuring out the best way to win as many contests as possible.

Not related to this topic but there's a very, very successful school near me with certain admin who actively encourages parents (unofficially of course) to hold their kids back from kindergarten as long as feasibly possible because of sports. You can find out which one if you go look at the ages of their seniors in both boys and girls sports. I've never seen so many 19 year olds on a roster in my entire life.

That is messed up. 3 of our kids are really young for their grade. One will graduate when she's 17. I can't imagine holding them back a year for that reason. I really don't think it makes a different because they're still going to have to play JH, JV, V and will need the skill development required to play at a certain level. It will help some that they will hit puberty a grade sooner, but only so much.

 

[kicker22]

As someone who coached nearly 25 years against private schools, but now as a parent has kids in a private school it's a touchy subject for me, because I definitely see both sides. That said as a former coach my issues was a little more complex as I was from a relatively rural conference (1A and 2A at the time) and tbh I had a great deal of respect for the local private schools and never felt like I was being recruited against and generally in conference and district play generally always held my own.

The problem I ran into is as a soccer coach where it was primarily only 2 or 3 classes prior to covid when I stepped down, the issue was always the private schools in densely populated/metro areas. Where not having district lines and being from large cities really impacted things. The Xavier's, Assumptions, Reginas, etc... Those were the programs that I totally respected, but at the same time absolutely loathed because they were pulling from 3A and 4A districts and competing in 1A/2A at the time. As stated I was in Southeast Iowa and TBH our local private schools didn't bother me simply because even going a 30-45 minute radius from those schools there simply wasn't that many kids to pull, but that's simply not the case in bigger cities/metro areas. That was the problem I have then and now. So in more rural areas, depending on the sport, I didn't see it as such a huge issue statewide because I think public schools had an advantage, but as you moved closer to the bigger cities that advantage disappeared and you found yourself facing dynasties.

 

[Seth53]

I can relay with 100% certainty, public schools aren't exactly squeaky-clean when it comes to poaching.

The best example I know of personally is Clear Lake poaching from Mason City. A lot.
10 miles away and it was a magnet. Still is.

Oh, and Solon with the IC kids...same thing.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

As someone who coached nearly 25 years against private schools, but now as a parent has kids in a private school it's a touchy subject for me, because I definitely see both sides. That said as a former coach my issues was a little more complex as I was from a relatively rural conference (1A and 2A at the time) and tbh I had a great deal of respect for the local private schools and never felt like I was being recruited against and generally in conference and district play generally always held my own.

The problem I ran into is as a soccer coach where it was primarily only 2 or 3 classes prior to covid when I stepped down, the issue was always the private schools in densely populated/metro areas. Where not having district lines and being from large cities really impacted things. The Xavier's, Assumptions, Reginas, etc... Those were the programs that I totally respected, but at the same time absolutely loathed because they were pulling from 3A and 4A districts and competing in 1A/2A at the time. As stated I was in Southeast Iowa and TBH our local private schools didn't bother me simply because even going a 30-45 minute radius from those schools there simply wasn't that many kids to pull, but that's simply not the case in bigger cities/metro areas. That was the problem I have then and now. So in more rural areas, depending on the sport, I didn't see it as such a huge issue statewide because I think public schools had an advantage, but as you moved closer to the bigger cities that advantage disappeared and you found yourself facing dynasties.

Great point. In addition, many of these urban areas have more training opportunities for athletes in various sports. Sometimes more affluent. These are the areas where there may be some great athletes that never go out for sports or quit sports sec to funding. The kids that train then have an advantage. Money talks down at the youth & HS level to. So, as you point out there is a better deeper talent pool to pull from in the urban setting and in addition these kids sometimes get top notch training sec to mom & dad cutting checks.

I'd luv to know how much some of these parents paid for one child for private baseball training from 10U all they way thru HS. Pitcher's live at those training facilities for years.

 

[Fryowa]

As someone who coached nearly 25 years against private schools, but now as a parent has kids in a private school it's a touchy subject for me, because I definitely see both sides. That said as a former coach my issues was a little more complex as I was from a relatively rural conference (1A and 2A at the time) and tbh I had a great deal of respect for the local private schools and never felt like I was being recruited against and generally in conference and district play generally always held my own.

The problem I ran into is as a soccer coach where it was primarily only 2 or 3 classes prior to covid when I stepped down, the issue was always the private schools in densely populated/metro areas. Where not having district lines and being from large cities really impacted things. The Xavier's, Assumptions, Reginas, etc... Those were the programs that I totally respected, but at the same time absolutely loathed because they were pulling from 3A and 4A districts and competing in 1A/2A at the time. As stated I was in Southeast Iowa and TBH our local private schools didn't bother me simply because even going a 30-45 minute radius from those schools there simply wasn't that many kids to pull, but that's simply not the case in bigger cities/metro areas. That was the problem I have then and now. So in more rural areas, depending on the sport, I didn't see it as such a huge issue statewide because I think public schools had an advantage, but as you moved closer to the bigger cities that advantage disappeared and you found yourself facing dynasties.

I think the affluency of private schools is the biggest thing regardless of how you measure it. Whether it's BEDS, SES, what have you.

I don't think anyone would be shortsighted enough not to admit that pretty much every family sending their kids through private school is far, far above the average income of public school families. I also don't think it's arguable that private school kids get WAY more opportunity for paid club sports from age 6 on up all the way through high school. Paid coaching, high-level competition, better access to high-level facilities, you name it. Because that's where it starts. Take a kid with average talent/athleticism and put him through 8 years of private instruction, coaching, and club baseball 6-8 months a year and he's going to be much better at baseball than a naturally athletic kid kid who played parent-coached rec ball for 2 months every summer because that's all he could afford. Same with volleyball, wrestling, football, basketball, you name it. Everything. I can't comment on soccer because I know nothing about it and it's not anywhere near as prevalent in rural Iowa where I've always lived, played, and coached.

I know that sort of thing isn't easily measurable and nothing will ever be done about it, but doing at least something would be a start. The BEDS thing is a half-assed attempt at addressing it but the ironic thing is it does nothing to affect the private vs public dynamic which is actually the worst when talking about baseball, football, and basketball. The only thing the BEDS calculation does is shuffles a very small number of schools around in classes due to free/reduced lunch numbers. It's bogus.

How to fix it I don't know. The only thing I can think of is to make private schools play up 2 classes or form their own league. Make RSM play 3A baseball. Make Kuemper play 4A. If they don't like it feel free to form your own league. I mean, wouldn't that make sense? Those classes would be far closer to their talent level and access to resources on average.