Hawks are leading B1G into future...

TecmoSuperHawk said:
I was watching or reading something a few weeks ago that talked about scoring averages in college basketball and it peaked in the early 1970s. Teams routinely would have games end 96-88 or thereabouts. When Bob Knight came to Indiana that changed and changed dramatically. After he had success playing lock down defense, most of the Big Ten followed and it has been largely the norm and not the exception since in this conference.

I wouldn't mind seeing the shot clock dropped to 30 seconds to help speed up play a little, but I think the biggest thing killing college basketball is the block/charge call. It is an abomination how the college kids play defense now. They either have learned from the officials or are actually taught by their coaches to flop now instead of moving your feet and playing physical to keep your guy from getting to the hoop. It is awful and I cringe every time I see an official make an emphatic charge call on a blatant flop. You see it 5-8 times per game now and it is sickening. I pray that the rules are altered to give the offensive player the benefit of the doubt on these block/charge plays or it will just get worse and worse.
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Could not agree more. Whatever happened to the "point of attack" being the rim? Now, it's just the area under the basket where Zach McCabe's feet are cemented. That charge semi-circle doesn't fix the problem either.
 
hawkeyemark said:
I actually got bored watching that game. We can't just trade baskets with teams who have better atheletes and expect to outscore them. I had feared that Fran wants to play that way but I think now we will see this team evolve into something very different from what we saw this season. Fran spent the first two seasons installing the offense. Now that he has some size and athletic guards who can defend I think it will become more about pressuring teams defensively and using that to create offense. Fran left little doubt in that interview the other day that he still wants a high-powered offense but intends to get after it defensively. It will look different from what people who want to just run and gun expect IMO.
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Agreed. I don't think we've seen the full extent of the defense Fran wants to run. He's not had the size on the back end to defend the basket when the press gets broken nor guards capable of putting maximum pressure on the ball. I think he gets both next year. It will still be a work in progress because of the inexperience, but we'll be much closer to his vision than we were this year.
 
I listened to Fran's interview again just to reaffirm what he said..... that he likes that we are scoring in the 90's and that should continue but the defense has to be better. He said that even though the defense will improve, it by no means will be a lock down defense. For the majority of the games we are going to out run and out score our opponents ...... that is exactly what I wanted to hear.
 
Xerxes said:
The difference is that the NBA has outstanding defense that makes it difficult for even great offenses to score. Great atheletes playing great defense.

NCAA BB is going on 20 years of consistent talent drain. Outside of FR there are few really talented players and many of them aren't on campus enough to develop their talent well. College is just as much about bad offense and lack of talent than it is about good defense.

As for the OP, Ohio St is the current and future leader of the B10 in basketball until Matta leaves. They are one of the few teams to actually have athletes. They can play any style they want.
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What? Have u watched the league? They play no defense. Dudes are basically allowed to drive the lane at will.
 
gohawks71 said:
Threads like this always make me laugh...blah blah blah..! This is just the start. I can envision years well beyond this one that will be much more productive. Just as Coach Knight changed the league, IMO so will Fran. At least it doesn't hurt to aim high.
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So Iowa finishes 1 game above .500 and Fran = one of the, if not the greatest, basketball coach in the history of the NCAA?

You're ****ing delusional
 
He didn't say Fran was as good of coach as Bob Knight, he said that he could change the style of Big Ten basketball, just like Knight did.
Why don't you read the whole post and not just parts of it before you start calling people delusional.
 
stevefrench said:
What? Have u watched the league? They play no defense. Dudes are basically allowed to drive the lane at will.
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I should have been a little more specific. Good/great teams in the NBA play good/great defense. Miami, Chicago, OKC, Spurs, LA, Boston, Memphis, Philly, Orlando. However many teams are just as you described, horrible on defense and they are non-factors in the title chase because of it.

Take the Mavs for instance. NBA champs last year. Lost their best defender,Tyson Chandler,and they're 6th/7th in the West this year. The Suns have been one of the best offensive teams year in and year out over the last decade, can't sniff and NBA title because they don't play defense.

I used to think the NBA didn't play defense either. Then I started to actually watch the NBA instead of just listening to people who don't like it.
 
If anyone is going to be crowned the leader of this change, it'll be Tom Crean. Indiana likes to get out and run, a lot. They'd have been doing it a long time ago if they didn't lose their best players to injuries every year.

Fran and Iowa may end up being a major player in the revolution, but Indiana is the one leading the charge, just as they did 30 years ago.
 
gohawks71 said:
I listened to Fran's interview again just to reaffirm what he said..... that he likes that we are scoring in the 90's and that should continue but the defense has to be better. He said that even though the defense will improve, it by no means will be a lock down defense. For the majority of the games we are going to out run and out score our opponents ...... that is exactly what I wanted to hear.
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I haven't given the interview a second listen but something tells me you heard what you wanted to hear. No, Fran didn't say we will play lockdown defense as he doesn't have an experienced enough team to do that. I very much think that he laid out a marker that he has taken a turn in the development of the program when he said that the focus of the offseason and in fall practice will center around defense. We haven't heard Fran talk like that before.

I don't find Fran a real easy guy to read. It has taken me awhile to figure out that he has a vision for this program that he hasn't fully implemeted yet. We can only listen to what he says and watch what he does to get clues about where this will go.
 
I love being the fast-paced team!

IU loves to run too ... so we aren't the only Big10 team like that

makes me think back to when basketball was fun to watch ... glad to see it going that way again
 
Xerxes said:
I should have been a little more specific. Good/great teams in the NBA play good/great defense. Miami, Chicago, OKC, Spurs, LA, Boston, Memphis, Philly, Orlando. However many teams are just as you described, horrible on defense and they are non-factors in the title chase because of it.

Take the Mavs for instance. NBA champs last year. Lost their best defender,Tyson Chandler,and they're 6th/7th in the West this year. The Suns have been one of the best offensive teams year in and year out over the last decade, can't sniff and NBA title because they don't play defense.

I used to think the NBA didn't play defense either. Then I started to actually watch the NBA instead of just listening to people who don't like it.
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This is an awesome post. The good NBA teams play great defense, but the 24 second shot clock makes the game so much easier to watch. The Magic are the least fun team to watch because all they do it give it to Howard or launch 3's. The launching of 3's makes me think I am watching a college game.

Something needs to be done because college basketball just isn't very fun to watch right now. The way that Wisconsin plays is a tragedy to a beautiful game.
 
The number problem facing college basketball right now is the amount of charging calls we are seeing. It's been out of control this tournament. I think the charge circle has done a lot more harm than good, as long as the defensive player has his feet outside the circle, the refs give him the charge. The charge rule is not created to reward players for sliding in under guys already in the air, but that's exactly what it does now.
 
Agree about the proliferation of charge calls...not good.

As for the Big Ten styles of ball, it is easy to trace the lineage of the coaches that impact the style.
Heathcoate begat Izzo...tough phyiscal style,defense and rebounding.
Keady begat Painter/Weber...see above.
Matta- Butler Way...with athletes.
Bo Ryan- Dick Bennett...nuff said.

The good news is that with Beilein,Crean and Fran, the league is seeing some new influences,coming from the Big East,and east coast,that will speed up play a bit.
Beilein is unique,as is Carmody.
Crean and Fran are the true speedy ball guys.
At least there is more variety of styles being added in after an era dominated by Knight,Keady,Heathcote and Bennett.

That is what Pitino says about the Big East....16 teams, many different styles of play,which prepares them for the tourny.
 
wow.. you have quite a few more issues than I thought. If you don't have any respect for anyone than go pick a fight in a bar or something instead of throwing insults out at everyone from behind you key board.


stevefrench said:
gohawks71 said:
Threads like this always make me laugh...blah blah blah..! This is just the start. I can envision years well beyond this one that will be much more productive. Just as Coach Knight changed the league, IMO so will Fran. At least it doesn't hurt to aim high.
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So Iowa finishes 1 game above .500 and Fran = one of the, if not the greatest, basketball coach in the history of the NCAA?You're ****ing delusional
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gohawks71 said:
wow.. you have quite a few more issues than I thought. If you don't have any respect for anyone than go pick a fight in a bar or something instead of throwing insults out at everyone from behind you key board.
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What insult dude? I said you're delusional.

definition of delusion: a false belief or opinion.

if you are insulted by someone disagreeing with your opinion, then I believe it would be you that has "issues".
 
HawkeyeMike23 said:
The number problem facing college basketball right now is the amount of charging calls we are seeing. It's been out of control this tournament. I think the charge circle has done a lot more harm than good, as long as the defensive player has his feet outside the circle, the refs give him the charge. The charge rule is not created to reward players for sliding in under guys already in the air, but that's exactly what it does now.
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I agree. Good defense isn't jumping in front of a moving ball handler but this year it's being officiated as such. I can't remember becoming so angry while watching teams that I don't even care about.
 
TecmoSuperHawk said:
I was watching or reading something a few weeks ago that talked about scoring averages in college basketball and it peaked in the early 1970s. Teams routinely would have games end 96-88 or thereabouts. When Bob Knight came to Indiana that changed and changed dramatically. After he had success playing lock down defense, most of the Big Ten followed and it has been largely the norm and not the exception since in this conference.

I wouldn't mind seeing the shot clock dropped to 30 seconds to help speed up play a little, but I think the biggest thing killing college basketball is the block/charge call. It is an abomination how the college kids play defense now. They either have learned from the officials or are actually taught by their coaches to flop now instead of moving your feet and playing physical to keep your guy from getting to the hoop. It is awful and I cringe every time I see an official make an emphatic charge call on a blatant flop. You see it 5-8 times per game now and it is sickening. I pray that the rules are altered to give the offensive player the benefit of the doubt on these block/charge plays or it will just get worse and worse.
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Flopping is bogus, and it is a concern. That is part of the reason they have the ring now. That helps. But it is not the biggest reason. Teams play tight defense and get away with a lot of checking. That and they just don't push the ball. Fran is changing that....
 
tm3308 said:
If anyone is going to be crowned the leader of this change, it'll be Tom Crean. Indiana likes to get out and run, a lot. They'd have been doing it a long time ago if they didn't lose their best players to injuries every year.

Fran and Iowa may end up being a major player in the revolution, but Indiana is the one leading the charge, just as they did 30 years ago.
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Hasnt Ohio State been pretty fast paced ever since Matta has been there?
 
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