Hawkeyes Past, Present, Future Share Feelings on Racial Injustice

[pootspot]

Nope. That went out the window early. You guys took the discussion that way. And now I'm involved. I don't need to take a deep breath or step back. Anybody that wants to tell me to do that can save it.

I'll probably shut it down at some point but like on social media, these thoughts and ideas everyone has been tiptoeing around need to be brought to light while the world is having this discussion. Look at the story posted in the original post of the thread. Look at how many Hawkeyes are talking about this subject.

Feel free to answer the question why there's a disproportionate amount of black people incarcerated and living in poverty.

I'll be here waiting.

Because AA are committing 40% of all violent crime? That’s one reason that’s factually based and if committing violent crimes you are more likely to do prison time as opposed to non violent.

Can you tell me why AA are? Hispanics/Haitians live in similar environments if we going to blame that and do not have the same ratio of violence.

AA to AA crime is higher than all others. AA crime on white as well.

I have no reasons as to why or a side but if facts is the argument these are a few reasons with factual basis as so why the disparity in number incarcerated.

 

[uihawk82]

Here's my analogy for White Privilege:

Both George Flloyd and Lori Loughlin committed felony level fraud.

George Flloyd is dead after having the life choked out of him by a knee to the neck by a police officer while being placed under arrest.

Lori Loughlin was allowed to turn herself in and plead not guilty and then allowed to post bail and return home. She was later allowed to re-receive a plea deal after originally declining and then later CHANGE her plea to guilty after initially trying to say "F you" to the court system. She is now supposed to spend 2 months in prison, likely at a time of her choosing, but the "where, when and if" are all still being worked out. Regardless she will likely be able to turn herself in on her terms and negotiate her jail time.

Very good point but did George Floyd commit a felony????

He was never tried by a judge or jury and convicted. Someone reported to police about a forgery or possible forgery and Floyd may have been identified by name or by appearance, I cant even remember how this all started, but he was never convicted.

Like you said very well Floyd never had a chance for a trial and that is the main point.

 

[Hawk1960]

I thought this was an interesting news bit and very timely. The last U.S. Citizen receiving a Civil War pension just died in North Carolina. I've been doing genealogy on my family the past four years and have discovered I have several ancestors who fought for the Union in the Civil War and one who was involved with the underground railroad in NW Illinois. If you've never studied the Civil War I'd suggest it if you have the time, it actually puts a lot of things in perspective.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ng-Civil-War-pension-dies-North-Carolina.html

 

[uihawk82]

400 hundred years? America wasn't even a country until 1776. It was England prior to that. 90 years after it became a country slaves were freed. You go back 400 years and look at what England did to people. Scottish people, Irish people. They put heads on their bridges for heaven's sake.
I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, it absolutely does and it exists in every race.
Don't believe me? Let's go to LA. Let's go deep into Mexico. I hate to break this to you but white people are not liked in much of the world. Tolerated for tourism and business but not liked.
As for someone above talking about societal issues in the black community being because of race, how does racism play any part of a man sticking around and being a father to his kids?
Has anyone noticed that the title of the thread is racial Injustice, however every single comment is about said injustice against African Americans? I understand with current events and all, but you don't think things like this happen to all nationalities? A black cop just killed an innocent white woman for no real reason up in Minneapolis just not that long ago.
So again, as my wife said, this is not about race, it's about good people vs bad people. Also as I have said this is about the haves and have nots.
You know why most people don't want a flat tax on all income with no exceptions? Because people making millions or even a half million do not want to pay 20%. People who get back 10,000 for being low income with several kids at home don't want to pay 20%. So really only the middle class are the ones paying a larger percentage of their income comparatively.
Regardless of race.
Now how is that fair? Is that not economic discrimination? Because it's certainly not equality. Then people wonder why things are like they are, when the policies decimate the middle class and it does so equally and regardless of race.

400 years is the history and I didnt make this point as far as it being totally the United States but rather a whole history on this continent with white rule.

I agree to a point it does come down to good people vs bad people but we as a country have not seen hardly any or zero examples of white people getting killed by cops in this way or shot in the back in let's say the last 10 years.

But not sure how murder of people by cops can also be argued at the same time how about our tax structure as there is no equivalence there as far as the finality of each issue. Yes, tax systems are also not fair.

 

[Hawk1960]

400 years is the history and I didnt make this point as far as it being totally the United States but rather a whole history on this continent with white rule.

I agree to a point it does come down to good people vs bad people but we as a country have not seen hardly any or zero examples of white people getting killed by cops in this way or shot in the back in let's say the last 10 years.

But not sure how murder of people by cops can also be argued at the same time how about our tax structure as there is no equivalence there as far as the finality of each issue. Yes, tax systems are also not fair.

Like the general population or any workforce, there are bad cops that need to find another occupation. This cop in Minneapolis had 18 previous complaints. Why in the hell he was still on the force is beyond me. The Chief of Police (or a D.A.) should have sent him packing years ago. In this particular case it is systemic. In a roundabout way it's up to the citizens of that city to elect a Mayor who will be responsible for hiring a Police Chief that delivers. Having said that, I think the vast majority of cops are good people and there to serve their community and do put their lives on the line every day.

I'm not a huge fan of the former NYPD Police Chief but he does raise some interesting stats in this article ...

https://www.newsmax.com/bernardkerik/police-shootings-crime-statistics/2019/01/22/id/899297/

 

[4thngoal]

400 years is the history and I didnt make this point as far as it being totally the United States but rather a whole history on this continent with white rule.

I agree to a point it does come down to good people vs bad people but we as a country have not seen hardly any or zero examples of white people getting killed by cops in this way or shot in the back in let's say the last 10 years.

But not sure how murder of people by cops can also be argued at the same time how about our tax structure as there is no equivalence there as far as the finality of each issue. Yes, tax systems are also not fair.

Because how is any nationality supposed to get to "upper" middle class with a tax structure like that? So either you are rich and pay a low percentage or you are poor and pay a low percentage. So the entire lower middle class is oppressed. (From 25,000 to 100,000 or there abouts)
Let me ask you this, do you think trailer trash white Joe Dirt gets to drive his trans am in a low speed pursuit down a totally cleared freeway for mile after mile with 50 police cars in pursuit when he is suspected of and wanted for murder?
I bet not. Fact I bet the equivalent of Joe in any nationality doesn't get to.

 

[4thngoal]

Because AA are committing 40% of all violent crime? That’s one reason that’s factually based and if committing violent crimes you are more likely to do prison time as opposed to non violent.

Can you tell me why AA are? Hispanics/Haitians live in similar environments if we going to blame that and do not have the same ratio of violence.

AA to AA crime is higher than all others. AA crime on white as well.

I have no reasons as to why or a side but if facts is the argument these are a few reasons with factual basis as so why the disparity in number incarcerated.

Ok, some of my story.
I have a tattoo, being it is my only one it stands out. I got it when I was young and I know what I thought it stood for. All these years later, it has been turned into a sign of being racist.
So I am in a water park in a city about 6-7 years ago. Boy did I get checked out. By every tattooed nationality there was.
So when we go to leave I said something to the people I was with about it all, because I honestly had no idea. My girls niece who was dating a African American says well look at your tat.
A conversation then took place and she got all sorts of angry with me and called me a racist. I brought up the same questions you are asking is all.
You can't even have a conversation to try to understand because you get called a racist.
That's why I didn't like that whole if you are a Democrat you are a snowflake thing.
Because I will tell you right now, I am me and I am not what someone else says I am.
Yesterday I had a talk with the gals at the polls about that. I said I don't and I won't ever vote all Dem or all Republican, because that is irresponsible.
I make up my own mind and I decide what I am. I afford everyone else that same opportunity regardless of race, religion, economic status or tattoos.
It's sad when you can't ask any questions about anything really, without being labeled. If you question anything in the modern era you will be called something. But what 99% fail at is there is a difference between knowledge and understanding. When I ask a question it's not for knowledge. I'm old, I don't need educated. If I ask and engage it's for understanding.
I do understand what is going on. It's not about race, it's about opportunity. Because as I have demonstrated a wealthy person of any nationality can get away with far more than a poor person of any nationality.
You want to solve civil unrest? Do you not think lot's of nationalities are at unrest? Trust me they want to keep Joe Dirt from being friends with the African Americans, because they have a whole lot in common. Bridge that gap and it's not long before you see lots of people from all races and religion have something in common and none of them are happy about it.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I agree to a point it does come down to good people vs bad people but we as a country have not seen hardly any or zero examples of white people getting killed by cops in this way or shot in the back in let's say the last 10 years.

Notwithstanding what the news says, unarmed people getting killed by the police is a fairly rare occurrence given the number of arrests and police interactions we have. There is a video of a guy named Daniel Shaver getting shot while lying on his stomach during the course of an arrest. I think that was in 2017. Cop got acquitted. You can see the videos online, but they are extremely graphic because this dude got dusted at close range with an AR.

There is also a case from Chicago in February where the cops shot a guy in the back for the crime of going between train cars. He didn't die because of the excellent trauma centers in Chicago that have the best gun shot wound surgeons in the country. The cops have not been indicted. The video has a lot of surveillance cameras and isn't as graphic, so here it is:

 

[pootspot]

Notwithstanding what the news says, unarmed people getting killed by the police is a fairly rare occurrence given the number of arrests and police interactions we have. There is a video of a guy named Daniel Shaver getting shot while lying on his stomach during the course of an arrest. I think that was in 2017. Cop got acquitted. You can see the videos online, but they are extremely graphic because this dude got dusted at close range with an AR.

There is also a case from Chicago in February where the cops shot a guy in the back for the crime of going between train cars. He didn't die because of the excellent trauma centers in Chicago that have the best gun shot wound surgeons in the country. The cops have not been indicted. The video has a lot of surveillance cameras and isn't as graphic, so here it is:

@uihawk82 this happens because some
Cops are abusers of power. I could’ve gone a different route based off both officers complexion but Like the Floyd video I didn’t see anything that was racist involved. I saw police abusing power they swore to uphold.

 

[PCHawk]

There were 44 occasions where the Minneapolis police department put people in neck restraints to the point of unconsciousness.

 

[Hawk1960]

Since this is a football forum speaking to police and racial issues I think this guy is very interesting. A black Ex University of Arizona football player named Brandon Tatum who became a cop in Tucson. He's seen both sides of the law enforcement issue growing up in the hood in Ft. Worth. Ignore the political talk if it bothers you, but listen to his message about being a cop and fears and bias he had growing up.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

There seem to be a lot of various other groups with agendas doing the rioting and vandalizing because they just want to do it, they want to upset the status quo, they want to mess up the system, and they can be both left and right wing.

Yeah there's for sure more angles to it with who all is doing it and the why behind it. With what you mentioned is as bad as it gets. What I was only mentioning was giving Cook the benefit of the doubt with whom he meant by what he said. I think he was referring to only the folks that were legitly upset over what happened to Floyd and giving them a pass for it.
Myself I just don't care why. It leads to innocent people getting hurt really badly and there's been some folks killed. It's illogical to think it helps with the cause at all either. I just can't see justifying any of it. That's just me though.

 

[Jonrn]

Again, I'm not saying it's right. I haven't said that at all. I'm saying if that's your focus, if that's bothering you more than George Floyd and other blacks dying because of the color of their skin, that's a problem.

And the assumption is that it's all black people looting and rioting, which also speaks to the base problem.

The massive issue is that much of the looting and rioting is being done by young white out-of-towners who are flying and driving in to incite violence on local businesses owned by people of color and on the buildings of black and poorer neighborhoods in many cities. This is evil and is wrong, because this is being blamed on the black community by the media and others that are complicit.

However I completely agree with Tyler cook that when the black community riots and loots target it’s understandable. This is a group that’s been marginalized for 200 years. These young men have played for the Vikings and Gophers on the weekends and then have white folks from Minneapolis cross the street to avoid passing them closely at sundown on a Tuesday. So if one of them gets murdered by an idiot cop, it’s understandable to loot target.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

Steve you seem like a reasonable and intelligent guy but that's a total false equivalency.

It's not a false equivalency. It's pointing out that far worse outcomes are happening to black people from gang violence and black on black crime than are happening to black people from police brutality. They're both problems, but one is far worse than the other. One gets 24/7 attention while the other is hardly paid attention to.

It's probably the case that racism plays a part in what happens in Chicago, due to the lack of opportunities there and such, no doubt. But, to some extent, the reason it's not paid attention to is that it doesn't fit a certain narrative.

In 2019, there were 19 unarmed whites killed by police and 9 unarmed blacks killed by them. In Chicago each year, there may be 400-500 black people killed in street violence, which is the greater problem? That's just Chicago alone!

At some point, facts have to matter.

 

[RobHowe]

The more posts this thread sees, the more sad I feel. I’m glad it’s just a vocal minority of people on here, although I suspect there are lurkers agreeing. Much racism is covert.

I’m sure I’ve pissed some of you off. You feel I’ve been too militant and harsh, arrogant or self righteous. I’m fine with that. And I’m not sorry.

I grew up poor, the first person in my family to graduate from college. My step father beat me and my mother regularly, my real father sold drugs and I would stuck in the car bored out of my mind for hours while he was on runs. I was sexually abused by a stranger at 6. I’ve survived on food stamps and eating government cheese. For my fifth birthday, I ate a plate of hash brownies my stoned father and step mother left out while they were partying for my birthday. They were up with me all night trying to calm me down instead of taking me to the hospital.

I could go on, but there’s no need. Some of you folks have no interest in learning and educating yourselves on unconscious bias, systemic racism and white privilege. You’d rather play the card that they’re meant to make guilty. That people speaking to you are arrogant. Ignorance is not an excuse. That’s why necessary change will be slow, people like you. And I believe that change is coming. I have to believe it.

There’s no doubt in my mind I’d be where I am today if I had black skin. I turn 53 today and am going to grab some family time. I’m going to reflect on how I’ve made it this far In large part through hard work and because my skin is white.

This thread is beginning to get repetitive. And as I mentioned earlier, it will lock at some point.

 

[Hawk1960]

The more posts this thread sees, the more sad I feel. I’m glad it’s just a vocal minority of people on here, although I suspect there are lurkers agreeing. Much racism is covert.

I’m sure I’ve pissed some of you off. You feel I’ve been too militant and harsh, arrogant or self righteous. I’m fine with that. And I’m not sorry.

I grew up poor, the first person in my family to graduate from college. My step father beat me and my mother regularly, my real father sold drugs and I would stuck in the car bored out of my mind for hours while he was on runs. I was sexually abused by a stranger at 6. I’ve survived on food stamps and eating government cheese. For my fifth birthday, I ate a plate of hash brownies my stoned father and step mother left out while they were partying for my birthday. They were up with me all night trying to calm me down instead of taking me to the hospital.

I could go on, but there’s no need. Some of you folks have no interest in learning and educating yourselves on unconscious bias, systemic racism and white privilege. You’d rather play the card that they’re meant to make guilty. That people speaking to you are arrogant. Ignorance is not an excuse. That’s why necessary change will be slow, people like you. And I believe that change is coming. I have to believe it.

There’s no doubt in my mind I’d be where I am today if I had black skin. I turn 53 today and am going to grab some family time. I’m going to reflect on how I’ve made it this far In large part through hard work and because my skin is white.

This thread is beginning to get repetitive. And as I mentioned earlier, it will lock at some point.

Happy B-Day Rob and enjoy the day with your family.

Climbing a mountain never happens with a straight line trail from point A to B, it's full of twists and turns and elevation changes ... and often 2 steps forward and 1 back.

 

[kicker22]

It's not a false equivalency. It's pointing out that far worse outcomes are happening to black people from gang violence and black on black crime than are happening to black people from police brutality. They're both problems, but one is far worse than the other. One gets 24/7 attention while the other is hardly paid attention to.

It's probably the case that racism plays a part in what happens in Chicago, due to the lack of opportunities there and such, no doubt. But, to some extent, the reason it's not paid attention to is that it doesn't fit a certain narrative.

In 2019, there were 19 unarmed whites killed by police and 9 unarmed blacks killed by them. In Chicago each year, there may be 400-500 black people killed in street violence, which is the greater problem? That's just Chicago alone!

At some point, facts have to matter.

Gang violence is a huge issue and absolutely matters, however gangs are not the face of a symbol of protection in this country like the police are. Gangs by nature are symbolic of violence. The badge of a police officer is symbolic of their duty to "protect and serve". There are officers that do not stand behind that pledge to the public and something needs to be done to see to it that those officers are taken off the streets.

A true officer upholds the law and does it to protect the public. A coward hides behind the badge and abuses that authority because it offers them protection and the opportunity to get away with things. This isn't about all officers in the profession but rather the ones that have no business being there in the first place.

 

[pootspot]

The more posts this thread sees, the more sad I feel. I’m glad it’s just a vocal minority of people on here, although I suspect there are lurkers agreeing. Much racism is covert.

I’m sure I’ve pissed some of you off. You feel I’ve been too militant and harsh, arrogant or self righteous. I’m fine with that. And I’m not sorry.

I grew up poor, the first person in my family to graduate from college. My step father beat me and my mother regularly, my real father sold drugs and I would stuck in the car bored out of my mind for hours while he was on runs. I was sexually abused by a stranger at 6. I’ve survived on food stamps and eating government cheese. For my fifth birthday, I ate a plate of hash brownies my stoned father and step mother left out while they were partying for my birthday. They were up with me all night trying to calm me down instead of taking me to the hospital.

I could go on, but there’s no need. Some of you folks have no interest in learning and educating yourselves on unconscious bias, systemic racism and white privilege. You’d rather play the card that they’re meant to make guilty. That people speaking to you are arrogant. Ignorance is not an excuse. That’s why necessary change will be slow, people like you. And I believe that change is coming. I have to believe it.

There’s no doubt in my mind I’d be where I am today if I had black skin. I turn 53 today and am going to grab some family time. I’m going to reflect on how I’ve made it this far In large part through hard work and because my skin is white.

This thread is beginning to get repetitive. And as I mentioned earlier, it will lock at some point.

Happy Bday Rob. You haven’t offended me we just see the same thing in different eyes. Talk is always good regardless if we agree I feel we all can come together on racism sucks. Enjoy family time

 

[RobHowe]

Thank you for the birthday wishes.

Still waiting for my family to wake up. The quarantine has turned them all into college students.

I found this post from Toren Young from Tuesday.



Here's the news story:

LINK

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I don't have all the answers to those questions but one of my college room mates served as a juvenile counselor in Central Illinois for over 30 years. I've discussed the incarceration question with him in the past and his answer over the years has consistently been there are too many African American kids growing up without a father figure in the home. I don't have his local county stats in front of me but the numbers are mind blowing. In those situations, and I don't care what race it is, the children are starting off life with one strike against them. He's a big supporter of the big brother/big sister program that tries to address it. I've volunteered for that program in the past and also donated to their fundraisers and highly endorse it as one of those charities where the money is well spent.

It's family... It starts and ends with how we are raised. Single moms with 5 kids trying to work 2 jobs isn't an ideal way to do it.. Don't get me wrong it's admireable as hell for how many have done it and raised great kids. But those are few and far between it seems like. And it's not ideal. Having 2 parents in the home that give a shit is where everything starts. I think there's a direct correlation with how well kids do in school and stay out of trouble with how many parents are in the home. Years ago I'd seen Bill OReilly (before he was kicked out with all his problems with women) bang the drum on this issue. You can say the messenger is flawed because of course he is but that specific message he'd talked about probably 10 plus years ago he nailed it.