Hawkeyes Have Good Chance with NYC PG Christian Vital

Hawk5656 said:
People would have freaked out if we passed on Ogelsby. He was a highly regarded recruit. I do agree with Bohannon though, I'm skeptical on him but hopefully he proves me wrong
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You're probably right about people freaking out, seeing as he was rated 122 nationally; but it's also the coaches job to evaluate talent for themselves and not Rivals.
Ferentz obviously signs a lot more kids each year but he's turned away 4* kids and not offered highly regarded recruits including this year in Foster. There were also a pair of offensive lineman from Notre Dame and Ohio State that were 4* recruits that wanted to go to Iowa and Ferentz never offered. Both of them may have been legacy kids, not sure how either of them turned out...
 
BGOLD said:
Ogelsby for sure. Also can't see Jordan Bohannon as a B10 player, he's small and not the type of athlete. He got torched in the Minnesota tourney by a kid who's playing low D1 but was a superior athlete. Hope I'm wrong, kid can shoot just not sure he'll be able to create separation to shoot.
Haven't really seen Pemsl play but heard from High School coaches that have been less than impressed and he needs to lose some weight. Haven't seen Kreiner play or talked to anyone who has but his tape looks good, solid athlete who can pop out; Kevin Love esque.
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So you claim that Fran takes too many Iowa kids, but only say he should have passed on one of them? Not only hat but he should have passed on the one that was a top 125 kids. LOL dude your troll is a complete joke.

As far as Bohannon, Pemsl and Kreiner go, I'm sure you would have cried if they brought in another Bohannon, Tuttle and McDermott.....I mean nobody but the MVC wanted those guys.
 
deanvogs said:
So you claim that Fran takes too many Iowa kids, but only say he should have passed on one of them? Not only hat but he should have passed on the one that was a top 125 kids. LOL dude your troll is a complete joke.

As far as Bohannon, Pemsl and Kreiner go, I'm sure you would have cried if they brought in another Bohannon, Tuttle and McDermott.....I mean nobody but the MVC wanted those guys.
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Actually I criticized Fran for only be able to recruit highly ranked players out of Iowa, and until Tyler Cook that's exactly what he's done (although I do think Moss could be a stud). Cook is his only 4* recruit out of state compared to the 4 4* star players in-state. And his out of state commits are huge misses like Dickerson, Ellingson, Myers, and Ingram.
Why are you obsessing? That's a clown move, which makes this all the more ironic. No need to reply, I could use a break from the wrong assertions on your end.
 
deanvogs said:
So you claim that Fran takes too many Iowa kids, but only say he should have passed on one of them? Not only hat but he should have passed on the one that was a top 125 kids. LOL dude your troll is a complete joke.

As far as Bohannon, Pemsl and Kreiner go, I'm sure you would have cried if they brought in another Bohannon, Tuttle and McDermott.....I mean nobody but the MVC wanted those guys.
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I don't think Bohannon would have played much for a B1G team. Tuttle and McDermott obviously would have
 
When Oglesby was a freshman, I thought he was going to be better than Gatens. The kid just couldn't ever get right in the head. He was a good recruit that went the wrong direction a year into college. No way anyone could foresee that.
 
BGOLD said:
Actually I criticized Fran for only be able to recruit highly ranked players out of Iowa, and until Tyler Cook that's exactly what he's done (although I do think Moss could be a stud). Cook is his only 4* recruit out of state compared to the 4 4* star players in-state. And his out of state commits are huge misses like Dickerson, Ellingson, Myers, and Ingram.
Why are you obsessing? That's a clown move, which makes this all the more ironic. No need to reply, I could use a break from the wrong assertions on your end.
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So you claim Fran depends too much on Iowa kids, but then 2 of the 3 players you mention he shouldn't have taken haven't even had a chance to prove themselves yet. Oglesby is the one who looks like a mistake in hindsight, and he was a highly sought after recruit who just couldn't figure out the mental side of the game. There's no way to predict that kind of thing when a kid is shooting lights out in high school. You can do your best to try, but when you're a D1 coach looking for shooters and a kid like that wants to commit you take your chances. It didn't work out in his case.

Pemsl and Bohannon are to be determined. I don't disagree that Bohannon is a risk. He was clearly a fall back option. I think he would even admit that. However, he comes from an athletic family and I have no doubt he's going to play his ass off. He's not exactly the kind of kid I would doubt.
 
DP5555 said:
So you claim Fran depends too much on Iowa kids, but then 2 of the 3 players you mention he shouldn't have taken haven't even had a chance to prove themselves yet. Oglesby is the one who looks like a mistake in hindsight, and he was a highly sought after recruit who just couldn't figure out the mental side of the game. There's no way to predict that kind of thing when a kid is shooting lights out in high school. You can do your best to try, but when you're a D1 coach looking for shooters and a kid like that wants to commit you take your chances. It didn't work out in his case.

Pemsl and Bohannon are to be determined. I don't disagree that Bohannon is a risk. He was clearly a fall back option. I think he would even admit that. However, he comes from an athletic family and I have no doubt he's going to play his ass off. He's not exactly the kind of kid I would doubt.
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You have to factor the shape the program was in when Oglesby committed too. Without the upgrade in talent, he would have been a starter most of his career.
 
DP5555 said:
So you claim Fran depends too much on Iowa kids, but then 2 of the 3 players you mention he shouldn't have taken haven't even had a chance to prove themselves yet. Oglesby is the one who looks like a mistake in hindsight, and he was a highly sought after recruit who just couldn't figure out the mental side of the game. There's no way to predict that kind of thing when a kid is shooting lights out in high school. You can do your best to try, but when you're a D1 coach looking for shooters and a kid like that wants to commit you take your chances. It didn't work out in his case.

Pemsl and Bohannon are to be determined. I don't disagree that Bohannon is a risk. He was clearly a fall back option. I think he would even admit that. However, he comes from an athletic family and I have no doubt he's going to play his ass off. He's not exactly the kind of kid I would doubt.
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Who are those 2 of 3? You may want to read it again. The argument has more to do with not securing solid recruits unless they're in the state and grew up dreaming to play for Iowa; kids any coach other than Lick could get to commit to Iowa. 1 4* out of state in 6 years.
I guess I'll hold the applause until Fran starts getting top players out of state and finally lands a PG. Luckily Iowa hasn't completely dried up talent wise or our recruiting class wouldn't have a couple 4/5* commits incoming. Just one every 6th year.
 
BGOLD said:
Who are those 2 of 3? You may want to read it again. The argument has more to do with not securing solid recruits unless they're in the state and grew up dreaming to play for Iowa; kids any coach other than Lick could get to commit to Iowa. 1 4* out of state in 6 years.
I guess I'll hold the applause until Fran starts getting top players out of state and finally lands a PG. Luckily Iowa hasn't completely dried up talent wise or our recruiting class wouldn't have a couple 4/5* commits incoming. Just one every 6th year.
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Does it mean nothing to you that the first few years Iowa was so bad there was no way an out of state player with options would come here? One in 6 years sounds bad but only an idiot would hold the first few years against him. One in 3 years isn't great but I'm pretty sure Moss and Hutton were 4 stars on one site. That would be 3 in the last 2 years.

If the 3 instate guys coming on next year all end up being really good, will you still fault Fram for not passing on them to try to bring in out of state guys? It makes no sense to cratique next year's class yet.
 
BGOLD said:
You're probably right about people freaking out, seeing as he was rated 122 nationally; but it's also the coaches job to evaluate talent for themselves and not Rivals.
Ferentz obviously signs a lot more kids each year but he's turned away 4* kids and not offered highly regarded recruits including this year in Foster. There were also a pair of offensive lineman from Notre Dame and Ohio State that were 4* recruits that wanted to go to Iowa and Ferentz never offered. Both of them may have been legacy kids, not sure how either of them turned out...
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BG, I think generally, you're right. A coach does have to evaluate beyond star ratings. But the landscape was very challenging when Fran got here. We fans were sick and tired of: 1) losing, 2) Licklighter, 3) Alford, 4) losing the best in-state players to out of state schools. The absolute #1 demand set by the Iowa fan base was "close the borders." Fran couldn't do anything about #'s 2 and 3, but he could about #'s 1 and 4. So, Fran closed the borders and we started winning. JO is a bit of a heads scratcher in that he never fully developed. You could "see" he had the ability; he just couldn't get it going. So, to me, what we have seen with so many Iowa born players is the relative talent, in general, of Iowa kids. Very good players, not elite players.

To me, that is why Tyler Cook is such a monumental recruit. And why it was important to get 3 Illinois kids last cycle. Fran has closed the borders and can all but choose which Iowa kid he wants, if they're good enough. But I think we're gonna start seeing more out of state kids over in state kids if they are more talented. Because correcting #1 beats #4.
 
PCHawk said:
Does it mean nothing to you that the first few years Iowa was so bad there was no way an out of state player with options would come here? One in 6 years sounds bad but only an idiot would hold the first few years against him. One in 3 years isn't great but I'm pretty sure Moss and Hutton were 4 stars on one site. That would be 3 in the last 2 years.

If the 3 instate guys coming on next year all end up being really good, will you still fault Fram for not passing on them to try to bring in out of state guys? It makes no sense to cratique next year's class yet.
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I'm with you, PC. There hasn't been anything "wrong" with Fran's recruiting. We've missed on elite talented point guards. But the effort is there.

Adam Woodbury was a 4* in-state kid (ESecPN top 100). Mike Gesell was a 4* out of state kid (or in-state, depending on how you want to look at it) and Jarrod Uthoff was a 4* in-state. Granted, Fran (cough-cough) had to re-recruit JU back to Iowa. But that is 4* talent in and out of the state in Fran's first two recruiting cycles. I understand they were his 2nd and 3rd recruiting classes, but he didn't have a chance to recruit for his first class, only re-recruit the verbals. However, he did bring a 3* kid from NYC along with him.
 
Close misses in recruiting doesn't help win games, but it helps my perception of Fran's recruiting. He seems a bit like Kirk where he finds talent no one else sees. He also gets in on them early. A close miss is really close to a get. All it takes is one get to make a top 25-30 team into a top 5 team.
 
Plus to say Fran doesn't get out of State talent is incorrect. He got 1st Team All B1G players Marble and White from out of state.
 
BGOLD said:
Actually I criticized Fran for only be able to recruit highly ranked players out of Iowa, and until Tyler Cook that's exactly what he's done (although I do think Moss could be a stud). Cook is his only 4* recruit out of state compared to the 4 4* star players in-state. And his out of state commits are huge misses like Dickerson, Ellingson, Myers, and Ingram.
Why are you obsessing? That's a clown move, which makes this all the more ironic. No need to reply, I could use a break from the wrong assertions on your end.
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Actually he has had another out of state 4-star recruit. Mike Gesell was Nebraska's Player of the Year, the #53 ranked player and a 4-star recruit his senior year. Yes, he played AAU with Adam Woodbury on the All-Iowa Attack, but he's from Nebraska and went to high school there.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
BG, I think generally, you're right. A coach does have to evaluate beyond star ratings. But the landscape was very challenging when Fran got here. We fans were sick and tired of: 1) losing, 2) Licklighter, 3) Alford, 4) losing the best in-state players to out of state schools. The absolute #1 demand set by the Iowa fan base was "close the borders." Fran couldn't do anything about #'s 2 and 3, but he could about #'s 1 and 4. So, Fran closed the borders and we started winning. JO is a bit of a heads scratcher in that he never fully developed. You could "see" he had the ability; he just couldn't get it going. So, to me, what we have seen with so many Iowa born players is the relative talent, in general, of Iowa kids. Very good players, not elite players.

To me, that is why Tyler Cook is such a monumental recruit. And why it was important to get 3 Illinois kids last cycle. Fran has closed the borders and can all but choose which Iowa kid he wants, if they're good enough. But I think we're gonna start seeing more out of state kids over in state kids if they are more talented. Because correcting #1 beats #4.
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Totally agree. I'm still pretty salty about how the season ended. Can't remember Iowa ever having a player like Cook so that's encouraging, just need to find that difference maker at PG, the most important position.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
On Twitter it looks like Vital has visits with Louisville & UConn which I assume are his top two schools.
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And the 3rd visit is to Iowa. If he doesn't cancel the Iowa visit and commit to UConn I think we have a realistic shot based on everything I have read. But I won't be shocked if he commits to UConn and we don't get a visit. And it sounds like Moore is at least curious about Iowa now that he has decommitted from Memphis.
 
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