Has the view of Iowa football been this negative in the last 50 years?

[CPHAWK82]

The unfortunate thing about the recruiting (and this is just my opinion) is that it's Kirk himself who is hurting it. I don't think recruits think Kirk is going to be here 4 years from now. Iowa has so much to offer a recruit in terms of facilities, campus life, academics and fan support. Kirk was bringing in better recruits sporting the freaking bubble as the practice facility. Now I know he's offered over 100 scholarships for 2016 and maybe I'll be proven wrong and Kirk brings in a top notch class but I just don't see it happening. I use to follow recruiting closely and it was fun to see if Iowa could pull a good one. Now it's just boring to follow. There's not really much to get excited about and Iowa doesn't seem to be making many top 5 lists like they use to. Just seems that if Iowa had a fresh personality and coach to get excited about to go along with everything else Iowa has to offer that Iowa could be attracting some good talent.

Seems like Kirk had his chance and it just never materialized and now the top recruits just see him as a coach coming to the end of his tenure and are staying away.

 

[CPHAWK82]

So, in the last 5 years, how many B1G teams have knocked that door down and became this relevant program that Iowa *should* be with all its fans, money and resources? I can think of 3... so, 80% of the conference can say the same thing and are in the same exact spot as Iowa. I want more to, but the dead horse has been beaten and dead. We want change, we're gonna eventually get it, but until we do it's not like we aren't in the same position as the large majority of college football. Ya'll need Jesus.

You make a good point. Not every team with resources and facilities can be on top of the conference. The question is how long before we eventually get it and how bad will it get from a talent perspective by the time that happens. Iowa has never really had a bunch of skill position players, but Iowa isn't even able to dominate in the trenches anymore. Far from it actually. Iowa could always hang their hat on that. I think people can sense this and see it getting worse before it finally does get better and that's where the frustration is.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

So, in the last 5 years, how many B1G teams have knocked that door down and became this relevant program that Iowa *should* be with all its fans, money and resources? I can think of 3... so, 80% of the conference can say the same thing and are in the same exact spot as Iowa. I want more to, but the dead horse has been beaten and dead. We want change, we're gonna eventually get it, but until we do it's not like we aren't in the same position as the large majority of college football. Ya'll need Jesus.

IGC: We "could have" walked through that door and we didn't. I understand your point about comparing Iowa to the rest of the B1G schools, but quite honestly, I don't really care what they do or don't achieve. Iowa had a golden opportunity and we blew it. I'm not okay with that.

 

[HobbieHawk]

This is what people are really sick of. Cautiously loosing to bad opponents.

AMEN!

 

[InGoodCo]

You make a good point. Not every team with resources and facilities can be on top of the conference. The question is how long before we eventually get it and how bad will it get from a talent perspective by the time that happens. Iowa has never really had a bunch of skill position players, but Iowa isn't even able to dominate in the trenches anymore. Far from it actually. Iowa could always hang their hat on that. I think people can sense this and see it getting worse before it finally does get better and that's where the frustration is.

I get that, and I do get the frustration, but I am equally as frustrated at the diarrhea that gets spewed on here like we're some how Kansas or Indiana football, and not the competitive program that at least wins 6 or more games most every year. It's mediocre, I won't argue, and we can do better, I won't argue that either, but I regularly hear about Iowa losing to teams they shouldn't, cause that's an Iowa and Ferentz problem exclusively I guess. We're in the middle to upper half of the 95% of college football that can't seem to win consistently, and that's the reality but if you believed some on here, it can't get much worse and it's seemingly impossible NOT to have a negative view. It's gonna get better, or it won't and we'll have a new coach but chances are we're gonna remain in the same spot no matter what or who coaches here with the exception of a few break out seasons...ya know, like the overwhelming majority of programs in the sport.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

I get that, and I do get the frustration, but I am equally as frustrated at the diarrhea that gets spewed on here like we're some how Kansas or Indiana football, and not the competitive program that at least wins 6 or more games most every year. It's mediocre, I won't argue, and we can do better, I won't argue that either, but I regularly hear about Iowa losing to teams they shouldn't, cause that's an Iowa and Ferentz problem exclusively I guess. We're in the middle to upper half of the 95% of college football that can't seem to win consistently, and that's the reality but if you believed some on here, it can't get much worse and it's seemingly impossible NOT to have a negative view. It's gonna get better, or it won't and we'll have a new coach but chances are we're gonna remain in the same spot no matter what or who coaches here with the exception of a few break out seasons...ya know, like the overwhelming majority of programs in the sport.

ICG, I understand that you might be using a bit of hyperbole when you mentioned Kansas and Indiana. But the comparison's I am making are before and after of the Iowa program. There has been quite a fall on several fronts.

 

[LawVHawk]

I sense that in the 70's Iowa fan just became used to bad football and expectations were just low. People just loved the hawks and didn't get too upset - the focus was on the family fun (for those who went) or just having the game on the radio in the garage. It was a pastime.

In the late 70's and into 80's and 90's the hawks found new life with hayden. At first it was absolute mania seeing them beat teams consistently and even beat good teams and seeing national rankings. Expectations were born.

In the 90's it was up and down but people hung in there

In the 2000's we saw KF's early surge and happy days were back again, and as we hit mid decade people began to see the 3 years up, 3 years down cycle. It was dissapointing but people sort of adjusted and waited for the next cycle.

Now, I think- you tell me what you think - people are just fed up. There is a level of frustration and resentment that was not present during the previous eras. People resent the AD, they resent the KF system and they are resenting KF's contract and they are now resenting KF.

Would you agree?

I would agree that the Iowa fan base seems a pretty dour group right now. The most negative in 50 years? Hard to judge that. Growing up in the 60s and early 70s, I wasn't that aware of the program but my recollection is it was pretty much a laughingstock for most of the state. I think you have it right that even though the team sucked, going to an Iowa football game was still fun family entertainment -- you expected the Hawks to be bad and likely to lose. But, good atmosphere, great campus, nice to be back in the ol' River City.

My first game as a UofI student also happened to be Bob Cummings' first as Hawkeye coach. A former Iowa football standout, Cummings was plucked from the high school coaching ranks where he had compiled a "superb record," according to news accounts of the day, to take over for Frank Lauterbur, fired after the 1973 season. A UPI story said Cummings "faces the challenging task of producing the first winning season at Iowa in 11 years."

He didn't and Fry was brought in five years later. He certainly built expectations with Big Ten titles, trips to the Rose Bowl and other prestigious bowls, players in consideration for the Heisman Trophy and other plays drafted by the NFL. As Fry's success began to wane in his final years, along came Ferentz. We may be at the same point as we were when Fry decided to hang it up.

I do think whoever it was made a fair point about the effect of social media. The Twitterverse, sports message boards, comments sections on news sites, Facebook, have magnified a lot of the criticism aimed at Ferentz, Davis, GarBar, the program in general.

Thinking back to the pre-interwebz era, would Iowa fans have been satisfied with 8-4, 7-5, even the occasional 6-6 season?

Probably.

 

[Stanzi]

So, in the last 5 years, how many B1G teams have knocked that door down and became this relevant program that Iowa *should* be with all its fans, money and resources? I can think of 3... so, 80% of the conference can say the same thing and are in the same exact spot as Iowa. I want more to, but the dead horse has been beaten and dead. We want change, we're gonna eventually get it, but until we do it's not like we aren't in the same position as the large majority of college football. Ya'll need Jesus.

What are you talking about? There seem to be some pretty clear tiers within the Big 10.

Tier 1: Already big names regardless of performance: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska; even with down years these programs still attract top recruits

Tier 2: Worked there way to being a big name recently: Michigan State and Wisconsin; this is where I absolutely feel Iowa should be. We have similar resources and situations to these programs. They don't really have any advantages over Iowa on a base level.

Tier 3: Mediocrity, no clear direction currently, but have good history: Iowa, Minnesota, Purdue

Tier 4: Perennial bottom dwellers, limited resources, or basketball schools: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland

So I disagree that we are in the same boat as 80% of the conference. The tier 4 teams don't have any legitimate reasons to expect to jump to tier 2 at any point, and they haven't been in tier 2 at any point recently. Iowa has been in tier 2 status for 6 of Ferentz's seasons so we absolutely have the ability and history to stay there. Michigan State and Wisconsin have proved it's very possible to move from tier 3 to tier 2 with good recruiting and good coaching. We have lacked good game day coaching, especially in recent seasons, and our recruiting has been awful. We should not be starting walk ons. Period.

I'm ok being in tier 3 if I see hope of moving to tier 2. If recruiting gets better and we play a more exciting offensive style I can much more easily stomach a few mediocre/poor seasons. That's my 2 cents anyways.

 

[InGoodCo]

What are you talking about? There seem to be some pretty clear tiers within the Big 10.

Tier 1: Already big names regardless of performance: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska; even with down years these programs still attract top recruits

Tier 2: Worked there way to being a big name recently: Michigan State and Wisconsin; this is where I absolutely feel Iowa should be. We have similar resources and situations to these programs. They don't really have any advantages over Iowa on a base level.

Tier 3: Mediocrity, no clear direction currently, but have good history: Iowa, Minnesota, Purdue

Tier 4: Perennial bottom dwellers, limited resources, or basketball schools: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland

So I disagree that we are in the same boat as 80% of the conference. The tier 4 teams don't have any legitimate reasons to expect to jump to tier 2 at any point, and they haven't been in tier 2 at any point recently. Iowa has been in tier 2 status for 6 of Ferentz's seasons so we absolutely have the ability and history to stay there. Michigan State and Wisconsin have proved it's very possible to move from tier 3 to tier 2 with good recruiting and good coaching. We have lacked good game day coaching, especially in recent seasons, and our recruiting has been awful. We should not be starting walk ons. Period.

I'm ok being in tier 3 if I see hope of moving to tier 2. If recruiting gets better and we play a more exciting offensive style I can much more easily stomach a few mediocre/poor seasons. That's my 2 cents anyways.

If Iowa is in the same tier with Purdue, who's 21-41 the last 5 seasons the tiers must not be as clear to me as they are to you. In fact, we have a better record the last 5 than Minne as well and they are on their upswing while Iowa is on their down swing and I am trying to remember the last time Penn State, Michigan or Nebraska won anything that meant anything relevant during Iowa's horrible football years with Kirk Ferentz. MSU, WISCI and OSU, that's it! Those are the only 3 schools who have tasted the type of success it would take to make the Ferentz detractors stop saying "that's football".

so, I stand by what I said.

 

[eveningnewsteam]

Just thank god the schedules are as watered down as they are now. If not, this is a 2 or 3 win program

 

[ChosenChildren]

It can never get worse than the 60s and 70s. I attended most of those games. Iowa football was BAD.

It has been a great run under Fry and Ferentz, but the Big Ten has changed. 14 teams and big money. All of the games are on TV. Iowa fans won't accept mediocrity anymore and they need hope for improvement. Ferentz is not delivering hope or excitement. I think 2015 will be his last season at Iowa

 

[kirby]

Just thank god the schedules are as watered down as they are now. If not, this is a 2 or 3 win program

Even when KF teams beat bad opponents, it's not a lot of fun to watch. The last two years I have found myself thinking of other things I should or could be doing instead of spending 3+ hours watching lifeless football in Kinnick.

KF has sucked all the fun out of the games. Everything is risk averse (no punt returns, no fakes, no deep throws, no "exotics" at all). As someone who sat through the end of the Fry era, it was entertaining - not real fundamentally sound, but exciting.

 

[kuhntz]

Just thank god the schedules are as watered down as they are now. If not, this is a 2 or 3 win program

This is where facts are lost on the kf apologists. 7 home games every year, isu,Mac and nobody every year. Winning 8 games in 2015 is like winning 4 in 1980.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Negative toward the product on the field or negative to the leaders of the program? Well, the negativity toward the product on the field is no where near the worst it's been in 50 years. We aren't getting our ***** kicked in like the 70s that's for sure. Physically upfront, for the most part over the last few years, we aren't that far off. At the skill postions (mainly RB and WR) it's a different story.

Now, the negativity toward KF and Barta...definitely at close to or exceeding anything over the last 30 for sure. KF is a victim of his success in his career at Iowa and the expectations that come with it. His philosophical approach to offensive football when you don't have a dominating defense is maddening. He sticks to the formula and that more than anything pisses people off. He's also never addressed recruiting at the skill positions as it's not been there at RB especially. His disdain for JUCO recruiting is also evident, but the insertion of one good RB over the past few years would have made a huge difference offensively.

How Chris White still has a job is beyond me. Special teams and Running Backs have been so subpar over the past few years, it's ridiculous. Think about it...onside kicks, punt returns, guys picking up a kick off at the two yard line and throwing it back into the field of play before they go out of bounds. A coach put that guy back there.

To me, I think the Iowa State game in Ames this year is a huge football game for KF. We lose to those guys again and even the die hard KF apologists will have to say, WTF. The noise at Barta will be deafening...and barring a late season run...I just don't think KF sees 2016. I agree with the posting earlier about our schedules the last three years...they were as easy as it gets. Taking that into consideration, the teams performance is really not very good.

 

[eyekwah]

Has the view of Iowa football been this negative in the last 50 years? Yeah, but for all the wrong reasons. If your perspective is purely wins and who they are against then that will influence how you feel. What is the purpose of collegiate athletics? If you take the perspective that they are to provide scholarships to gifted athletes that are also on campus to earn (not given) a degree then you may feel a lot better about the football program. The Iowa football program is one of a few Big Ten colleges to regularly have a solid APR and manage to be better than .500.

If your dissatisfied with the "style" of play do you ever think some others might disagree? Some of us might actually prefer the current style. It all comes down to the players on the field making it happen. A quarterback hand off to a running back is the same play despite how the players are set up before the snap. Using style of play for hating on the coach is your problem and some others that want to join with you. No one is holding a gun to your head telling you to watch.

I do believe as some others have mentioned that "social media" does contribute to increasing negativity . Some of the characterization spouted on this forum come pretty close to the definition of bullying. I've almost reached the point where I think Jonny Miller wants to promote more of it for some purpose only known to him and his sidekick Deace.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

ICG, I understand that you might be using a bit of hyperbole when you mentioned Kansas and Indiana. But the comparison's I am making are before and after of the Iowa program. There has been quite a fall on several fronts.

When Kansas, Indiana and ISU frequently come up in football threads.... that alone says a lot about where the football program is.

 

[brhawks18]

This is pretty much spot on IMO. I'm apathetic now. Don't get excited like I use to and don't get upset like I use to. Very much monotone when it comes to feelings for Iowa football. It's knowing the end is nearing and just riding it out now.

I believe what you posted is where a lot of Iowa fans are at this point.

I'm in a holding pattern waiting for the next coach to come in. Want to see if whomever it is can right this slowly sinking ship of a program.

 

[DesMoinesHawki]

I sense that in the 70's Iowa fan just became used to bad football and expectations were just low. People just loved the hawks and didn't get too upset - the focus was on the family fun (for those who went) or just having the game on the radio in the garage. It was a pastime.

In the late 70's and into 80's and 90's the hawks found new life with hayden. At first it was absolute mania seeing them beat teams consistently and even beat good teams and seeing national rankings. Expectations were born.

In the 90's it was up and down but people hung in there

In the 2000's we saw KF's early surge and happy days were back again, and as we hit mid decade people began to see the 3 years up, 3 years down cycle. It was dissapointing but people sort of adjusted and waited for the next cycle.

Now, I think- you tell me what you think - people are just fed up. There is a level of frustration and resentment that was not present during the previous eras. People resent the AD, they resent the KF system and they are resenting KF's contract and they are now resenting KF.

Would you agree?

Agree 100% I have been a diehard for 35+ years ... In my lifetime, at least, never been witness to such disdain for a coach or an AD at Iowa. Lick was close via basketball ... but we barely knew Lick and he was only here 3 years and he wasn't one of the top 10 highest paid coaches in college basketball. Kirk is still a top-10 paid coach and we have been nothing close to a top 10 or even top 20 program in years.

There are no more excuses for Kirk and this staff. This staff has GOT TO GO after this season. No ifs, ands, or buts. Kirk has to be gone at the end of the year. We have a depleted roster filled with too many walkons, mediocre recruiting classes, mediocre finishes even with a mediocre schedule, an OC that has been a bad fit from Day 1 ... A DC that was simply promoted to DC just because Kirk is loyal ... Sorry but there had to be other qualified candidates out there besides Phil Parker and Greg Davis ... This is Kirk's doing. These are his hires ... These are his recruits ... Iowa football is simply average ... Like a Minnesota ... like an Illinois ... Even Minnesota is passing us by ... Kirk has got to go ... No more excuses. No more 'wait until next year' ... no more saying that recruiting will really pick up now that we have the facilities complete ... No ... this is a tired head coach ... A coach who has not adapted to the times ... he has not hired well, nor has he recruited well ... NO MORE EXCUSES ... This entire staff needs to be gone in 8 months ...

 

[DesMoinesHawki]

It is good to see some positivity here. There are several reasons to believe that this team will be good. It starts with experience on defense. They had one heck of a spring! Great Iowa teams in the past had former walk ons as starters too. These guys can help this team win just as they did.

Serious question ... Are you an intern with the football program? Hey, I am all about positive people, etc., but what I don't like is people who try to spit shine what everyone knows is a big fat turd ... There is a difference between being positive and simply being blind with ignorance.

Iowa football is down ... in a big way ... there are many, many problems with the direction this program is heading ... and starting next year the schedules will get brutal ... And Iowa football is nowhere close to fielding teams that will be able to compete with the Ohio States, Michigans, Penn States, Michigan States ... So save the rah, rah b.s. ... We are a bad team ... with a top 10-paid coach ... Fans are upset. They should be. We should expect more from the program ... We have the fanbase ... the facilities ... we just don't have the coaching staff ... I had season tickets for 10 years ... was on a local I-Club board ... I donated every year to the university ... Yeah, I have a right to peeved off at the return on investment ... I was a diehard Hawk fan long before Gary or Kirk set foot in Iowa City ... As were many of the fans on this message board ... We SHOULD expect more ... And we aren't getting it ... So save the rah, rah b.s. ...

 

[Hawknick]

No I am not an intern. Rather the team will be good or not is a matter of opinion. I still see a lot of good with this team despite all the forum negativity and opinions to the contrary. I picked Iowa to beat Pedo State in 2008 when people said they couldn't. The same thing can happen again that the positive predictions end up being correct.