Has Any Quarterback Improved Under Ferentz?

[okeefe4prez]

Aww yeah, Duff's weighing in. Only kidding big fella.
I was saying I didn't know the answer, but Ghost kindly refreshed the stats for me.
What I was saying was whether QBs in the Ferentz era improved generally. I think if you look back in this thread it has been said that Chandler, Banks and Stanzi improved. I think Tate, JC6, Vandenberg, and McCann did not. I left out Beutjer because honestly I can't remember what he did. I am not a rolling stat machine unfortunately.
But I still think it is an interesting question - while others would disagree and that is fine. Why is it that some Iowa QBs improve and others do not under Ferentz - to the tune of 50% or less.
I don't know the answer.
But I can't argue Stanzi's senior year was worse than his junior year at this point . . .

Tate substantially improved, but in 2005 the defensive line turned over and we were awful. But the offense was very good (granted, we had a running game again). In 2006, he was playing well, even though he was injured and we were ranked when OSU rolled into town and crushed us. He steamrolled against Purdue but re-aggravated that injury and I think we lost like 5 B10 games in a row to close out that season. Tate played masterfully against Texas, but that Chandler illegal procedure penalty took the wheels right off the bus.

And were you at the Northwestern-Iowa game in 2009? JVB got way better after that game. He was terrible in that game, but kept us competitive with OSU the next week and beat Minnesota to close out the season. He looked much better last year than he did in 2009. This year the staff has overcomplicated the offense and he looks like total crap, but I don't think that is on him, it is on Davis.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Of course everyone would have loved to have the wins of 2009, that's obvious, but if you put the stats up without the win loss numbers and said which QB would you want? You'd take the guy with the better completion percentage, more yards, more TDS, less INTs, and a better QB rating at all times. There are 84 other scholarship players that are also responsible for wins and losses, you can't just say well because Iowa lost more games in 2010 Stanzi degressed. Iowa's offense scored more points per game in 2010 than 2009, that alone says he was better.

regressed, brah, regressed.

 

[hawkfan2679]

A short list of QBs KF developed...

Banks went from unheralded juco to AP player of the year.
Tate went from an undersized unheralded HS QB to an all big ten performer.
Chandler went from having cerebal paulsy to being an effective B10 QB.
Stanzi went from an unheralded HS QB to win three college bowl games including a BCS game and eventually the NFL.

But no, other than those four guys we havent developed any qbs at all.

Iowa has had as good or better qb play than any team in the B10 over the last dozen years.

I don't know about unheralded...

Banks won a JUCO national title as the starting QB.
Tate was a US Army All American, Texas Gatorade POY, rewrote the passing record books in the biggest HS classification in Texas...
Stanzi's senior year in HS was a laundry list of All-Everything awards
Chandler was a 1st team JUCO all-american...not sure where the cerebral palsy stuff came from.

 

[Dutch]

Tate substantially improved, but in 2005 the defensive line turned over and we were awful. But the offense was very good (granted, we had a running game again). In 2006, he was playing well, even though he was injured and we were ranked when OSU rolled into town and crushed us. He steamrolled against Purdue but re-aggravated that injury and I think we lost like 5 B10 games in a row to close out that season. Tate played masterfully against Texas, but that Chandler illegal procedure penalty took the wheels right off the bus.

And were you at the Northwestern-Iowa game in 2009? JVB got way better after that game. He was terrible in that game, but kept us competitive with OSU the next week and beat Minnesota to close out the season. He looked much better last year than he did in 2009. This year the staff has overcomplicated the offense and he looks like total crap, but I don't think that is on him, it is on Davis.

OK4P - Now we are talking. Thanks for the input and insight. I am only going to disagree with one thing you said, and that is I do not remember JVB's game against Minnesota as being exceptional or even good. But that is just my memory. I haven't looked back at that game in a few years. His game against OSU was nearly legendary, and after that game I had high hopes. I recall him making NFL-type throws through small windows of opportunity. I thought at the time if he could play like that during his first road test, at the Horseshoe, the future was bright.
As for Davis and his offense currently, I am not an OC and I can't break down plays. But it seems that the offense isn't tailored to JVBs skill set. It seems makes great fade throws and struggles with the shorter "horizontal" type passes. And yet we keep doing the same things.
I was under the impression that Davis would utilize his players' strengths. He said that time and again in his preseason pressers. I have yet to see that in terms of JVB on any consistent basis.
And I feel bad for JVB. He is a defeated man. He is a good Hawkeye because I believe he is working hard for this team, but the coaches aren't doing him any favors right now. Or so it seems.

 

[hawkfan2679]

OK4P - Now we are talking. Thanks for the input and insight. I am only going to disagree with one thing you said, and that is I do not remember JVB's game against Minnesota as being exceptional or even good. But that is just my memory.

Your memory is correct. He was pretty bad that game. 11/24, 117 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT, but the defense, as was the case in 2009, took over and pitched a shutout.

 

[LG210]

Banks had one fabulous season and almost didn't get the chance. Tate was incredible as a sophomore, decent as a junior, and disappointing as a senior. Stanzi was awesome as a junior and only so-so as a senior. Vandy has definately regressed this season. Ferentz is incredible for developing lineman (both ways), tight ends, running backs (if they stay healthy or out of jail), and defensive backfield players, but I need someone to convince me that quarterbacks get better under his coaching staff.

Stanzi improved considerably from Junior to Senior year. Not sure why you would say differently.

 

[PJHawk]

A short list of QBs KF developed...


Tate went from an undersized unheralded HS QB to an all big ten performer.

Unheralded? Tate was a HS all-american, four star recruit and was the all-time leading passer in Texas state history - WTF?

BTW Kyle McCann's senior year (especially the Alamo Bowl) was much improved from anything we had seen from him before so yes he counts as having improved.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Unheralded? Tate was a HS all-american, four star recruit and was the all-time leading passer in Texas state history - WTF?

BTW Kyle McCann's senior year (especially the Alamo Bowl) was much improved from anything we had seen from him before so yes he counts as having improved.

Agreed. If Tate had been a couple of inches taller, there was no way he would have gotten out of TX, OK or SEC country.

 

[DuffMan]

I don't know about unheralded...

Banks won a JUCO national title as the starting QB.
Tate was a US Army All American, Texas Gatorade POY, rewrote the passing record books in the biggest HS classification in Texas...
Stanzi's senior year in HS was a laundry list of All-Everything awards
Chandler was a 1st team JUCO all-american...not sure where the cerebral palsy stuff came from.

Overlooked is probably a better way to refer to tate. I dont think he had an offer from any in state school.

We werent even recruiting Banks IIRC correctly, We were down there looking at someone else and kinda ran into him.

 

[PJHawk]

Drew Tate was an A&M commit until R.C. Slocum was fired in 2002.

 

[brhawks18]

Of course everyone would have loved to have the wins of 2009, that's obvious, but if you put the stats up without the win loss numbers and said which QB would you want? You'd take the guy with the better completion percentage, more yards, more TDS, less INTs, and a better QB rating at all times. There are 84 other scholarship players that are also responsible for wins and losses, you can't just say well because Iowa lost more games in 2010 Stanzi degressed. Iowa's offense scored more points per game in 2010 than 2009, that alone says he was better.

What about other QB's who've had more than 1 year as starters in this program?

 

[DodgerHawki]

What do you consider improving?

What about all other QBs in the Ferentz era? After all that is the subject of the post and a valid point. JC did not improve. Vandenburg has not improved. Tate regressed (but was injured). It is worth looking at the whole picture.
It is a good question by the OP and remains unanswered, but for Stanzi.

By any reasonable measurement, Tate improved from 2004 to 2005, even though Iowa went from 10 wins in 2004 to 7 in 2005.

Tate's 2004 stats: 233-375, 20 TD's, 14 interceptions. 232 yards per game. QB rating of 134.67.
Tate in 2005: 219-352, 22 TD's, 7 interceptions. 235 yards per game. QB rating of 146.35.

In 2005, Tate averaged more yards per pass, completion % the same, increased touchdowns, decreased interceptions, a few more yards per game, higher QB rating. But he didn't "improve," whatever that means.

The difference was lights-out defense and special teams in 2004 compared to 2005. And the season would be viewed much differently had Iowa won after leading by 13 late in the game against Northwestern and won the OT game against Michigan. But they didn't (really for reasons unrelated to Tate's performance) so the default reaction is that Tate didn't improve.

2006 he was not good but that was mostly due to injuries.

 

[WindyCityHawkI]

I thought in the past I had read that Iowa has not had a separate QB's coach, which could have something to do with the lack of development going on. Anyone have insight on that?

 

[GhostofBTT]

I think it is unquestioned that our 2010 season was a disappointment because of Stanzi's severe regression. I know people liek to bag on JDM because of his 12-0 prediction, but there is no way he could have known Stanzi would fall off a cliff liek that.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I thought in the past I had read that Iowa has not had a separate QB's coach, which could have something to do with the lack of development going on. Anyone have insight on that?

The NCAA sets limits on the number of assistants. If you have a dedicated QB coach, you have to have some other coach do double duty. I don't think Kurt wants to do that.

 

[PJHawk]

Re: What do you consider improving?

2006 he was not good but that was mostly due to injuries.

It should also be noted Tate's senior year in 2006 included a mostly abysmal performance by his receiving corp.

 

[DodgerHawki]

The teams record was better his junior year and his stats were better his senior year. I'd rather have his junior year back as wins and losses are the bottom line.

It has been said in different conversations whether true or not, that Stanzi took less chances his senior year then his junior year and the result was fewer interceptions. However, can playing it safe be argued this may have cost Iowa a few wins? I don't have the answer to that. But it's a fair question.

But QB's have as a whole, it seems, have not improved under KF's tenure as head coach. Although we'll never know, I would have loved to have seen a 2nd Brad Banks year to see how would have done.

The Stanzi "taking fewer chances" in 2010 compared to 2009 is impossible to prove. What if he was just better in 2010, as the stats indicate. He averaged 8.7 yards per pass in 2010 compared to 7.9 yards per pass in 2009. If he was truly taking fewer chances and just dumping it off all the time, you would expect to see that number go down, not up.

Sometimes the QB can play good, but the team doesn't win. Yes, the QB play impacts greatly how well the team does, but it isn't the entire story. 2009 Iowa won some games that Stanzi had very little to do with winning. Arkansas State he was mediocre, at Penn State he didn't do much, UNI he didn't do much and took two blocked FG's at the end to win. He obviously had some other good games/moments that season but that's 3 wins he either didn't impact at all.

 

[NickM]

I think most of the QBs did get better, except for the glaring, glaring inability of Iowa to effectively execute a 2-minute offense (and 2-minute defense). How different does 2010 turn out if Iowa could have either hung on to a lead down the stretch or executed a competent two minute drive down the stretch during the Arizona, Wisconsin and Ohio State games? Those have been systemic issues throughout KF's tenure.

McCann improved (just had a limited ceiling in terms of his physical abilities). Banks and Chandler were in the program for 2 years and I think Iowa got the absolute best out of both of them during their senior years. Tate is a bit of a different beast b/c I don't think he was a very good fit at all for Iowa's system. He produced more electrifying plays his sophomore year b/c Iowa was forced to adjust to him and not vice versa. I think the staff mismanaged Tate. The tantrums, screaming, gestures, etc. all should have been nipped earlier in his career. I think his emotions negatively impacted not only his play but the play of the team around him as well. He should never have started/played against Montana State for the opener his senior year. Iowa could have gotten Manson the reps, which maybe would have helped him get ready for playing at Syracuse. The staff instead plays an obviously injured Tate against Montana State at home prolonging his injury and then is forced to give Manson his first true reps on the road at Syracuse. Tate probably never fully healed that year.

JC was just bad; sometimes that happens. Stanzi got way, way better. Iowa's inability to run or defend a 2-minute offense was the ultimate undoing of 2010.

 

[hawkfarmer]

What about other QB's who've had more than 1 year as starters in this program?[/QUOTE

Like Tate? I think he got better as a QB, he was a greater passer in 2004 and I think he was just as good if not better his next two years. His senior year the injuries just killed him and the talent around him was just not that great. I can't argue that JVB is better because he is not, simple. Other than that who else has been a 2 year starter for KF?

 

[SpiderRico]

People tend to place the overall record of a team on a QB and claim the QB got worse when the wins got worse. That, of course, is simply not true. For the most part, Iowa wins and loses on defense and special teams. 2002 being the exception to this rule. As far as QBs, here is my obvservations:

1. McCann. No doubt he got better as the years went along. Capped off by a great performance in the Alamo Bowl that often gets overlooked.
2. Banks. Went from, supposedly, not being ready to play much in 2001 to a Heisman runner up and Maxwell Award winner. Either that's the greatest jump in improvement in the history of college football or a glaring mistake in talent evaluation by the coaching staff. You make the call.
3. Chandler. Although only a one year starter, he still remains only 1 of 2 QBs to pull off the trifecta of a win over ISU, a win over Michigan and a win in a January bowl game. His pass to Ochoa against Michigan is still a thing of beauty and his shoulder-lowering rumble over the Michigan All-American DB in that game was awesome.
4. Tate. Great leader in 2004. Great passer in 2005 (all stats improved). Injured and offense was undermanned in 2006. So he did improve until injuries limited him.
5. JC. Bust. No two ways about it. OL gave up 46 sacks, but a lot of those were on him holding on to the ball and on the coaching staff for not better utilizing two really good running backs in Simms and Young.
6. Stanzi. The man definitely improved. He went from needing to be relieved by JC in the ISU game in 2008 to leading the team to an upset win over #5 PSU late in that same year. 2009 he helped to engineer the best start in school history and his injury in 2009 was the sole reason why we didn't win the B1G that year and go to the Rose Bowl. 2010 was his best statistical year, but the inability of the defense to protect 4th qtr leads led to a less than stellar record.
7. JVB. Good statistical year in 2011, but had the best receiver in school history to throw to and a 1,400 yd back to keep defenses honest. With none of that this year, defenses can tee off on him and he is now a deer in the headlights.

So in my opinion, with injuries removed from the equation, JVB is the only QB to regress in the Ferentz Era.