Harbaugh field trip has been cancelled
- Thread starter westender
- Start date
And the HSA is a nice deal for anyone who can afford to put money in. Most employers contribute some into them as employee's choosing those plans save them money on premium costs. I don't know how this country got this way, but many people believe they have to have the most rich / low risk plan on the planet or they are become penniless and die.
Fryowa
Administrator
My employer matches up to $625 per year for single coverage, $1,250 for family coverage (so actually I have to revise my original post, it's less money out of my pocket than I said).
It's strictly a match, so the employee has to contribute the same amount or they don't get anything. I only contribute the $625 to get the match because I'd rather have that money accessible in a checking account (I get 3.25%) rather than tied up in the HSA. There's zero advantage to contributing past the match unless you're irresponsible with your money and don't keep enough cash on hand to make your deductible.
if you hit the $10,000 level in the HSA you can actively invest it like a 401K but I have no plans on doing that.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Some probably do have some immunity. The Nebraska Spanish flu didnt hit ollder people as hard as younger likely do to the Russian flu like 28 years prior.
In this flu very young seem to have some immunity.
Ree4
Well-Known Member
Guess it's all fine and dandy because you and some people have friends who have good plans, even though almost all metrics show our system is average at best. Try being in the service industry, or being a small business owner and providing for your employees, rising insurance costs are killing the competitiveness of small businesses. I work at a bank dealing with commercial customers, I see it all the time. Should small businesses' biggest concern be the cost of providing insurance to their employees or how to make a quality product and sell it at a reasonable price? Employer provided insurance is incredibly antiquated and needs to go.
I have terrific insurance through my employer too, but I know tons of other people who aren't so fortunate. Who ever said healthcare is free? It isn't and should never be.
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Ree4
Well-Known Member
Not for me, my wife hits our deductible every year from follow up MRIs that are needed to monitor the remnants of a brain tumor she had removed 5 years ago at the age of 33.
Fryowa
Administrator
One of the reasons I don't work in the service industry or own a small business is because insurance would cut too far into my disposable income. You're forgetting that no one is forced at gunpoint to work in either of those professions. It is a choice. Well-paying jobs require zero college education, only determination.
You and I will not agree on this. You're confusing fortune with choice. Barring an injury or medical/mental condition out of one's control (a very, very small proportion to the total population) your position in life is a result of your choices. If flipping burgers doesn't allow you to support the lifestyle you want, get a job in an industry that does. It will require more work, but it is there. It is 100% that simple. And don't give me the word, "can't" when describing people who flip burgers but don't want to. There's no such thing as I "can't" find a better way in life unless a person has a physical or mental limitation.
"Bad fortune" is a euphemism for laziness and low ambition in almost all cases. I know you won't agree nor change your mind, and that's ok.
You're an intelligent guy. You shouldn't insult either of our intelligences by implying that "universal" heath care isn't touted as free by it's proponents.
Fryowa
Administrator
Can you explain for me why an HSA wouldn't be good deal for you?
I'm speaking financially, not broadly in terms of whether you think they're good/bad in a general sense.
Dr. Michael Baden, renowned forensic pathologist interview on Fox News:
"I am worried about it, yes, because it's a new virus that's come into the community. We have no antibodies against it, no experience with it before," he replied.
Baden said that with the flu there is experience, people have "partial immunities," and there is one death per every 100,000. Whereas, with coronavirus, thus far, there have been 30 deaths recorded per every 100,000.
"We know that it's contagious enough that if a person is sick, sending them to a hospital is going to make more people sick," he said. "So, you keep them at home as long as you can and try to cut down the spread even if people have the virus because most of the people will recover by themselves without much treatment."
"I am worried about it, yes, because it's a new virus that's come into the community. We have no antibodies against it, no experience with it before," he replied.
Baden said that with the flu there is experience, people have "partial immunities," and there is one death per every 100,000. Whereas, with coronavirus, thus far, there have been 30 deaths recorded per every 100,000.
"We know that it's contagious enough that if a person is sick, sending them to a hospital is going to make more people sick," he said. "So, you keep them at home as long as you can and try to cut down the spread even if people have the virus because most of the people will recover by themselves without much treatment."
Agree, most people's roadblock to a better life they seek is sitting right on their shoulders. They tell themselves they can't or they really don't want to have to work harder to get to something better. Many people feel they are owed for just showing up.
Ree4
Well-Known Member
I have not heard that at all, and anyone who believes that is fucking dumb
Ree4
Well-Known Member
(Tongue in cheek as a banker response) : I don't have high deductible health insurance so i would not be able to contribute to a heath savings account.
Kidding aside, the purpose of a high deductible health plan is for people that generally don't have a lot of out of pocket costs. Ideally you would never hit your deductible. My wife's one MRI that she gets each year would max out our family deductible. We save money in the long run having slightly higher premiums and a much lower deductible than having HDHI
Fryowa
Administrator
Lots of people do. And lots of people are dumb.
Fryowa
Administrator
Ahh. I took your response to mean you had the opportunity but chose not to.
My employer offers both. I had some co-workers who thought the same thing, but (with our plan) you really have to consider the out of pocket max.
Typically on a high-deductible plan the out of pocket max is equal to the deductible, and much lower than the out of pocket max on a traditional plan.
For instance, before I went HDHI, my traditional plan was $20 doctor copay, $7 prescriptions, $1,500 deductible, 80/20 after that with a $3,500 out of pocket max (for single coverage). I just looked and my premium was $142/month. Now my total liability is only just over two grand and every year I don't have medical issues I'm banking the difference.
Almost all HD plans have a lower out of pocket and are actually perfect for people like you and your wife who know they'll have lot's of medical expense no matter what. You need to take into account your total medical liability for the year between the two plans, not the deductible. I'd bet a bunch of money that if you had a HD plan available it would net out cheaper per year for you.
One thing I don't have now are doctor co pays and prescriptions; I pay full price for those. The only time a HD plan would not make sense is if you had a lot of prescriptions throughout the year but didn't come close to your deductible. Even then, with the reduction in premiums at worst it might be a wash.
Ree4
Well-Known Member
Hah whoops, I wrecked myself on that one. Didn't actually read what westender wrote and thought he meant HDHP for some reason. Yes, an HSA is a no brainer if you have a HDHP. That was my bad hahah
Not lots of medical expenses. Just one. The MRI charge was $5,934.00, we had to pay $644.34. That would have maxed the out of pocket and cost us $4k if we had a HDHP, all other bills for her and the rest of my family totalled ~$500 for last year.
Just ran a cost/benefit analysis on last year and the family saved $1872 more than we would have if we had a HDHP. The difference in premiums between Traditional (90/10) and HDHP in my work is only $40 /mo for family, it's much different for individual plans. $2k/$4k OPM
HDHP's make sense if EVERYONE or several of the people covered have issues, but if only one does, it doesnt. If she was on an individual plan last year, she might have broken even.
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okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
That's how mine is. My wife is on Humira and we have hit the deductible by March most years and that is the out of the pocket max. The other plans are like 90/10 or 80/20 and by the time you pay even 10% of a year's supply of Humira plus the higher premiums you are paying way more on one of those plans. The inflation in the price of Humira is unconscionable. When we moved back to the US, we were on the U of I insurance plan and I had to pay for Humira out of pocket and submit a reimbursement. It was $970 a month in 2005. The price today without a plan is $5500 a month at Wal-Mart and the negotiated plan price on our plan is $3600 a month from some company who mails it to us.
The other total scam is epi pens. My boy has a really mild peanut allergy and we have to buy epi pens for it. They have a really short shelf life and I swear they have rigged their logistics to slow roll release so you have to buy more than one package per year.
I'm all for pharma making money and recouping their massive R&D costs, but my God, the people running those companies are absolutely shameless. There is so much regulatory capture and rent-seeking behavior it is unreal. I'd be shocked if a lot of those companies aren't spending more now on building and defending patent walls around their products than they do on R&D. Humira should be long off patent, but they have put up so many patent walls on manufacturing processes and distribution systems that no one can make a generic. And their sale of it for Crohn's adds another term to the patent. It is freaking absurd.
Ree4
Well-Known Member
The thing is, most of the initial R & D is funded by taxpayers and done by universities. Pharma companies tweak a few things then patent the drugs and mark them up in some cases thousands of percentage points. There's no reason for epi pens and insulin to be so expensive when the companies that create them aren't the ones that discovered them.
Ree4
Well-Known Member
Another issue with HDHPs is they really dissuade people from visiting an ER - possibly stopping you from getting care you desperately need. With regular insurance and for people that don't get sick that often, a $600 bill is a lot less scary than capping your OPM at $4k.
How many symptomatic people do you think will want to get tested if they think they're going to leave with a bill like this guy? Link For some reason the article doesn't say it but the google article title:
Novel coronavirus test for Miami man leads to $3,275 bill ...
Too many people going to the doctor for shit people never used to run to the doctor for, except for now all the advertising of pharmaceuticals that say hey if you have X talk to your doctor about this wonderful medicine. My aunt said she can remember going to the doctor 2 times when she was a kid (until age 18) and that was it and that was usually a broken bone or stitches type incident. I know I didn't go very often at all. With the HSA and having to write the checks, yes you watch the money more closely.
Ree4
Well-Known Member
Yeah a ton of people go to the doctor way too much, some to the ER way too much, others not enough. I've gone to the doctor twice in the last 2 years and feel like I'm in reasonably good health. Can still run a 5k without dying. I could eat less. drink less and smoke less for sure though
