Greg Davis Transcript 4/11

[FBletterman]

I've already heard more from him than 13 years with okeefe. Using the rb's out wide is something hayden and snyder used to do. I'm already liking this guy.

Under Coach Synder I don't remember practicing any running back out wide sets unless you mean running backs like Harmon actually playing the position of the X or Y? Now Hayden and Synder loved to run RB patterns out of the back field that were very creative like an R trail route up the sideline matching the RB on the LBs.

 

[hawkeye2011]

Yes Iowa does not possess great speed at WR. Marvin had good speed, but even he is a bit of a strider.

KMM, KD both long striders. Nothing wrong with that, unless that is all you have. They have the ability to blow the top off possibly, but something to be said for more explosive quickness off the ball, and in and out of cuts.

That's why you saw GD talking about motions and bunch formations. Some way of trying to manufacture separation against man coverage.

If you can't create space vs. tight man you are in trouble. Which we were last year against teams that could play tight man. Nobody can get open, extra man in the box against our poor run game, and an extra pass rusher. Not a good recipe for offensive success when the other guys can lock you down with man.

Timed 40 can give you some measure, but realize that is withou pads, on grass, and minus several months of very specific training to run a fast time in that exact scenario. Obviously it doesn't always precisely correlate to football speed.

I believe that is also why you will see multiple TE packages. If you can't outrun them, or create space you at least try for a physical mismatch or dictate defensive personnel and/or structure to account for your personnel on the field.

Our receivers are not explosive. Greg Davis is smart enough to realize their limitations and scheme around that.

 

[olddude]

Yes Iowa does not possess great speed at WR. Marvin had good speed, but even he is a bit of a strider.

KMM, KD both long striders. Nothing wrong with that, unless that is all you have. They have the ability to blow the top off possibly, but something to be said for more explosive quickness off the ball, and in and out of cuts.

That's why you saw GD talking about motions and bunch formations. Some way of trying to manufacture separation against man coverage.

If you can't create space vs. tight man you are in trouble. Which we were last year against teams that could play tight man. Nobody can get open, extra man in the box against our poor run game, and an extra pass rusher. Not a good recipe for offensive success when the other guys can lock you down with man.

Timed 40 can give you some measure, but realize that is withou pads, on grass, and minus several months of very specific training to run a fast time in that exact scenario. Obviously it doesn't always precisely correlate to football speed.

I believe that is also why you will see multiple TE packages. If you can't outrun them, or create space you at least try for a physical mismatch or dictate defensive personnel and/or structure to account for your personnel on the field.

Our receivers are not explosive. Greg Davis is smart enough to realize their limitations and scheme around that.

I agree. Like I said I know people have improved their 40 time (or quickness) after being drafted. So these kids have not reached the point of their max. I know GD will work with what he has, but everyone needs to be on the same page here, and that page is more quickness. It won't matter who we recruit if we do not get this worked in.

 

[hawkeye2011]

I agree. Like I said I know people have improved their 40 time (or quickness) after being drafted. So these kids have not reached the point of their max. I know GD will work with what he has, but everyone needs to be on the same page here, and that page is more quickness. It won't matter who we recruit if we do not get this worked in.

They have mostly maxed their football speed. They just haven't trained for one very specific scenario for an extended and focused time. They are two different beasts.

Iowa will recruit more speed. Hopefully they can attract some more dynamic players along with the prototypical "striders" that we've hd/ or have.

I think we will see some more he out of RB's in the pass game as well. Canzeri was tailor made for that, but so is Bullock. Will be refreshing after watching Coker out of the backfield. He was pretty uncomfortable/unnatural in that role.

Here's to recruiting more speed overall, but definitely at receiver.

 

[olddude]

They have mostly maxed their football speed. They just haven't trained for one very specific scenario for an extended and focused time. They are two different beasts.

Iowa will recruit more speed. Hopefully they can attract some more dynamic players along with the prototypical "striders" that we've hd/ or have.

I think we will see some more he out of RB's in the pass game as well. Canzeri was tailor made for that, but so is Bullock. Will be refreshing after watching Coker out of the backfield. He was pretty uncomfortable/unnatural in that role.

Here's to recruiting more speed overall, but definitely at receiver.

No way. We are talking 18-20 year olds. I never hit my max speed or ability until early/mid 20's. Why do you think Bucky is going after second hand qb's? Why does everyone play elder players? Why did Micheal V improve his "quickness" after being drafted?
I'll tell you, after HS I was not ready to pound the rock for Iowa, and @ mid 20's I was in the best shape of my life and could have given Canzeri a run for the money. These kids are no way near max. The ones who think they are will never advance.

 

[hawkeye2011]

Do you believe Wisconsin is going after early grads/transfer QBs because they are faster?

You were commenting about getting faster AFTER they were drafted. Players obviously physically mature during 4/5 years of college. Their speed improves generally very incrementally. However their physical body and strength improves more drastically during this time. This and the actual knowledge and familiarity of a program or system is why older players play predominantly.

Michael Vick was plenty quick in college, or for that matter high school.

Yes players can improve their speed incrementally as they mature. But not radically. Huge gains made in a 40 time are due to specificity of training for that particular event. From the lineman on down they are trained to run as an Olympic sprinter would to shave hundredths or a tenth (in some instances more) off of a 40. I would too with millions on the line. But they never received that kind of emphasis on technique otherwise in their career. However their speed as it relates on the football field I would posit remains pretty static.


Your own experience growing into a Canzeri level player after high school is an outlier if true. Just my opinion.

 

[hogeye]

No way. We are talking 18-20 year olds. I never hit my max speed or ability until early/mid 20's. Why do you think Bucky is going after second hand qb's? Why does everyone play elder players? Why did Micheal V improve his "quickness" after being drafted?
I'll tell you, after HS I was not ready to pound the rock for Iowa, and @ mid 20's I was in the best shape of my life and could have given Canzeri a run for the money. These kids are no way near max. The ones who think they are will never advance.

You don't agree, that's fine. But don't start throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks at this point.

 

[olddude]

Here is an article for you, from 2005. I am not saying you are going to see a big increase in 40 time, I said you will see faster burst speed.
Speed drills from Michael Vick's coach: STACK Magazine - Exercises, Training, Nutrition, High School Athletes

 

[hawkfan2679]

I'm still chapped that Ferentz decided to burn CJF's freshman year chasing kicks and playing special teams (with almost no offense). The next 2 years with him, with a coach who wants to utilize his talents, will be nice, but having him 3 years would be even better.

 

[Section136]

I'm still chapped that Ferentz decided to burn CJF's freshman year chasing kicks and playing special teams (with almost no offense). The next 2 years with him, with a coach who wants to utilize his talents, will be nice, but having him 3 years would be even better.

Be chapped at CJF then. KF has always said he leaves it up to the player on whether or not they want to burn their RS. I'm sure it was explained to him that it would pretty much be all special teams.

 

[hawkeye2011]

Here is an article for you, from 2005. I am not saying you are going to see a big increase in 40 time, I said you will see faster burst speed.
Speed drills from Michael Vick's coach: STACK Magazine - Exercises, Training, Nutrition, High School Athletes

Great. What is your point?

Here is what I am saying:

By and large by the time an athlete leaves the Iowa football program to be drafted or otherwise they have for the most part maxed their football speed. That is my belief. Can they gain some? I am sure they can.

But also realize they have been with Chris Doyle for 4-5 years. All of the things mentioned in that article? Doyle has been there and done that with them. Nothing even remotely unique or ground breaking in that article.

I'm positive they can show improvement in a pro timed 40. Not due to gaining speed that will be replicated on a football field to any great extent, but due to specific training related to a 40 yd dash.

At this point I seriously doubt anyone else is remotely interested in my philosophy or yours on the issue of speed development. This topic is about Greg Davis and his philosophy.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. Or I am. You won't change my mind, and I'm pretty certain based on your late development as an elite athlete I won't change yours.

 

[hawkfan2679]

Be chapped at CJF then. KF has always said he leaves it up to the player on whether or not they want to burn their RS. I'm sure it was explained to him that it would pretty much be all special teams.

I'll spread the chapping equally then. CJF for wasting his freshman year and KF for not seeing what it apparently took Greg Davis all of a couple practices to realize. It's not like CJF was a tweener, a marginal D-1 prospect, or a project. He was one of the top rated TE's coming out of HS.

 

[SpiderRico]

I'll spread the chapping equally then. CJF for wasting his freshman year and KF for not seeing what it apparently took Greg Davis all of a couple practices to realize. It's not like CJF was a tweener, a marginal D-1 prospect, or a project. He was one of the top rated TE's coming out of HS.

....who by all accounts read his own press clippings too much and didn't put forth the effort or dedication needed AND required by his head coach.

 

[hawkfan2679]

....who by all accounts read his own press clippings too much and didn't put forth the effort or dedication needed AND required by his head coach.

Help me out here...how is this relevant to him redshirting/not redshirting his freshman year? If he's got a lot of people in front of him at TE to limit his snaps, why not persuade him to redshirt so that you can maximize his impact on the program. Are you trying to say Ferentz "allowed" him to play special teams (as opposed to redshirting) out of spite? Honest question...I don't want to put words in your mouth.

I can understand last year, when he did get on the field, maybe he didn't see as much action because his effort wasn't always there. I'm looking at his freshman year, which was wasted on reps running down kickoffs.

 

[SpiderRico]

Help me out here...how is this relevant to him redshirting/not redshirting his freshman year? If he's got a lot of people in front of him at TE to limit his snaps, why not persuade him to redshirt so that you can maximize his impact on the program. Are you trying to say Ferentz "allowed" him to play special teams (as opposed to redshirting) out of spite? Honest question...I don't want to put words in your mouth.

I can understand last year, when he did get on the field, maybe he didn't see as much action because his effort wasn't always there. I'm looking at his freshman year, which was wasted on reps running down kickoffs.

Maybe I read your comment wrong. I thought you were implying that KF messed up by not playing him more early on since he was such a highly rated prospect and Greg Davis has even seen his talent.

And my response was that KF shouldn't be playing a player that's not willing to put forth the effort and dedication that KF expects each and every player to put forth.

If I read your comment wrong, I apologize.

But even with that being said, KF is on record as saying that 1)the decision to play or redshirt is up to the individual and 2)playing special teams and getting early exposure to the speed of the game, atmosphere, etc has benefited countless players in the past and is something he believes in. Right or wrong, he does have a lot of NFL players to back that up.

 

[hawkfan2679]

Maybe I read your comment wrong. I thought you were implying that KF messed up by not playing him more early on since he was such a highly rated prospect and Greg Davis has even seen his talent.

And my response was that KF shouldn't be playing a player that's not willing to put forth the effort and dedication that KF expects each and every player to put forth.

If I read your comment wrong, I apologize.

But even with that being said, KF is on record as saying that 1)the decision to play or redshirt is up to the individual and 2)playing special teams and getting early exposure to the speed of the game, atmosphere, etc has benefited countless players in the past and is something he believes in. Right or wrong, he does have a lot of NFL players to back that up.

Yeah, I think you missed the point of my first post slightly, as it really didn't have anything to do with his sophomore season. I really was more concerned solely about the freshman year, when he saw nary a snap. I felt like a kid of that caliber could have been better utilized redshirting (I realize now he gives them the choice...but ultimately isn't he the head coach?). I wonder if we told him when he switched his commitment to us from Illinois that he'd get immediate playing time...I also wonder if it was intimated that the playing time would be special teams. Guess I'll never know that...

 

[deanvogs]

Help me out here...how is this relevant to him redshirting/not redshirting his freshman year? If he's got a lot of people in front of him at TE to limit his snaps, why not persuade him to redshirt so that you can maximize his impact on the program. Are you trying to say Ferentz "allowed" him to play special teams (as opposed to redshirting) out of spite? Honest question...I don't want to put words in your mouth.

I can understand last year, when he did get on the field, maybe he didn't see as much action because his effort wasn't always there. I'm looking at his freshman year, which was wasted on reps running down kickoffs.

KF knew what kind of talent CF had, and that is exactly WHY he saw the field his freshman year. KF does this with kids that he thinks will be 3 year starters. It was CF fault that he didn't come out of the gate last year totally focused, and committed to practicing and playing hard. Now it seems his head is on straight, he is focused, and should be a beast.

I like the fact that KF lets the best FR players see time on special teams and get the up to the speed of the game that way. It also helps if there in injuries (like Morris playing as a FR) as they are more game ready seeing time on special teams.

 

[hawkfan2679]

I like the fact that KF lets the best FR players see time on special teams and get the up to the speed of the game that way. It also helps if there in injuries (like Morris playing as a FR) as they are more game ready seeing time on special teams.

This is the part I guess I don't understand. I played everything in my playing career: special teams, offense, and defense, but I don't know that playing on special teams in a game was something that wasn't completely replicable in practice. Granted I wasn't playing on a D-1 stage...on kickoff team you learn gap control, sprinting for 40 yards, blowing up or evading the blocker, and trying to make a tackle. There isn't nearly the amount of mental stress on an individual as when you are in a 3 point stance a yard from a DE and a LB lined up over you jumping in and out of a potential blitz.

 

[Foval21]

I like the fact that KF lets the best FR players see time on special teams and get the up to the speed of the game that way. It also helps if there in injuries (like Morris playing as a FR) as they are more game ready seeing time on special teams.

This is the part I guess I don't understand. I played everything in my playing career: special teams, offense, and defense, but I don't know that playing on special teams in a game was something that wasn't completely replicable in practice. Granted I wasn't playing on a D-1 stage...on kickoff team you learn gap control, sprinting for 40 yards, blowing up or evading the blocker, and trying to make a tackle. There isn't nearly the amount of mental stress on an individual as when you are in a 3 point stance a yard from a DE and a LB lined up over you jumping in and out of a potential blitz.

but they do learn the speed of the game and what it takes to do well at the level without the pressure of being on offense or defense where there is a more mental side to it. shonn greene cut his teeth on special teams, along with dallas clark and many others. i would bet not redshirting meant he got more snaps than the redshirt tes too instead of mainly mental snaps which should help his development.

i believe kf thought he would start his soph yr and play some his frosh on offense. therefore the redshirt wasnt needed. but because he didnt want to learn to block that didnt happen until he changed his mind.

 

[hawkfan2679]

but they do learn the speed of the game and what it takes to do well at the level

This is the part I don't understand. There isn't a whole lot of resemblance between running downfield on a kickoff and taking a scrimmage snap, so I don't see how much a guy could actually be learning. Oh well...I've done enough to derail this thread. I'll allow the conversation to continue.