Greatest American Male Olympian?
- Thread starter thejumper5
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olivecourt
Well-Known Member
You might want to do some Carl Lewis research. Start here:
Carl Lewis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That's nine gold medals and one silver, across 4 Olympics. He won four Olympic long jump golds in a row. He also qualified for the Moscow Olympics in the long jump and 4x100, missing out because of the boycott. The 9 gold medals are tied for second all-time after Phelps' 18, but are come in a sport in which the absolute maximum number of events any athlete will compete in at a given Olympics is 4. (Compare that to swimmers who do 7-8 events).
Lewis has the charisma of a dim light bulb. But it's hard to argue that he isn't on the Mt. Rushmore of US Male Olympians, if not #1.
big10fan
Well-Known Member
good points. i think track should add some events to compete with the different swim strokes in swimming.
1. running backwards
2. hopping on one leg
3. bear crawl
bighawkeyedaddy
Well-Known Member
I ran in the same lane as Carl Lewis a few races after he won the 100 at the Drake Relays. But I have to say Owens or Phelps.
olivecourt
Well-Known Member
Two more notes about Lewis:
1. It's easy to assume that the long jump/100 meter combo isn't a big deal, because at the high school level all of the fastest sprinters do the long jump (and because we know Jesse Owens pulled off the same combination). But in the modern era (post-1960), Lewis is the only person to be both an elite long jumper and an elite sprinter. The amount of specialized/technical training to be good at both events is mind-boggling. It's not analogous to Phelps winning a freestyle race and then a butterfly race-- it's more like if Phelps won the 200-meter butterfly and then also won the springboard diving event.
Lewis is the sixteenth-fastest 100 meter runner ever and the third-best long jumper ever. No other athlete even cracks the top 50 in both events (Leroy Burrell is #56 in the long jump and #11 in the 100).
2. Lewis was named Sportsman of the Century by the IOC, Athlete of the Century by the IAAF (international track and field governing body), and Olympian of the Century by Sports Illustrated. Owens is more important from a historical perspective, but it's tough to argue that he was the more accomplished Olympian.
1. It's easy to assume that the long jump/100 meter combo isn't a big deal, because at the high school level all of the fastest sprinters do the long jump (and because we know Jesse Owens pulled off the same combination). But in the modern era (post-1960), Lewis is the only person to be both an elite long jumper and an elite sprinter. The amount of specialized/technical training to be good at both events is mind-boggling. It's not analogous to Phelps winning a freestyle race and then a butterfly race-- it's more like if Phelps won the 200-meter butterfly and then also won the springboard diving event.
Lewis is the sixteenth-fastest 100 meter runner ever and the third-best long jumper ever. No other athlete even cracks the top 50 in both events (Leroy Burrell is #56 in the long jump and #11 in the 100).
2. Lewis was named Sportsman of the Century by the IOC, Athlete of the Century by the IAAF (international track and field governing body), and Olympian of the Century by Sports Illustrated. Owens is more important from a historical perspective, but it's tough to argue that he was the more accomplished Olympian.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
So subjective. In terms of "most electrifying", easily Spitz and Phelps. They dominated their sport across a broader range. Lewis and Owens were basically sprinters/jumpers. Oerter was one event, although he lasted longer and came home with four golds in foiur successive Olympic Games.
I will also assume this is limited to "Summer" Olympics. If you include Winter, then it really ISN'T close. It's Eric Heiden, hands down. Five races, from 500m to 10000m. Five gold medals. And not one of those races was in doubt past the completion of his first lap. If not for the Miracle On Ice, people would STILL be talking about Heiden.
I profess a certain bias to Carl Lewis. Like Larry Holmes with nobody to fight, Lewis had the 1984 races sewn up due to the absence of the Eastern Bloc. In 1988, he beats Ben Johnson a month before (after Johnson had been winning regularly and setting new 100m record in 1987). Johnson claims "going home to rehab injury", comes back juiced to the gills to set another "record". When Johnson gets caught (when he needed four beers to complete **** test, most knew the inevitable results), Lewis gets gold and record, but it's kind of anti-climactic. He then loses record to Leroy Burrell, loses chance at long jump record to Mike Powell (who basically has one "super jump", while Lewis has FOUR jumps over 29 feet at ONE MEET!). Doesn't make team in sprints after this, but still wins 2 more long jump golds. Pretty incredible. Hard to say how he would have done in 1980, as Eatern Bloc-ers were still juicing big, Lewis was not yet sprinting full-time, and he was only 19 years old. But he was already on the top rung of long jumpers in the US.
But another name is missing: Edwin Moses. Sets world record in 1976, victim of 1980 boycott, wins again in 1984, fades in stretch in 1988 and promptly hangs up the spikes. But what he did on the track is almost unmatchable, so thoroughly did he dominate. Moses lost his record to a one-race wonder (Kevin Young) who basically lost his step-count thereafter and never ran another race approaching the record-setting one.
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OatesStache
Guest
To be fair, he was appreciated by the Germans. He was the first black athlete to receive endorsement from an athletic wears company...Adolf Dasler, founder of Adidas signed him while he was in Berlin.
hawktransplant
Well-Known Member
he's a buckeye. How can you vote for a buckeye?
S
Scorpio79
Guest
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Because he was ground-breaking. And because Nile Kinnick didn't go to the Olympics (at least as a participant, what with no games in 1940).
tm3308
Well-Known Member
While it's true there's no "fastest at running backwards", etc. for track athletes, the track equivalent of Phelps' accomplishments would be for a guy to win gold in the 100-400 meters and the hurdle events, plus relays (and in multiple Olympics) Nobody will ever do that.
Phelps has more opportunities for medals, but his dominance in so many different events is what sets him apart from a performance standpoint. And while the 22 medals are impressive, the truly astounding stat is that EIGHTEEN of them were gold. 18 for 22 is just un-freaking-real.
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OatesStache
Guest
How was he groundbreaking? While his victories in Berlin were impressive, the fact that it was in Nazi Germany did not present Owens any additional adversity. The symbolism was important, sure, but the fact that a black athlete was dominating track events was not uncommon in 1936.
PhoenixHawk
Well-Known Member
Mismatched shoes from the garbage and extra socks to make them fit? C'mon.
There he is! Jim Thorpe, Native American and winner of the pentathalon & decathalon in the 1912 games. All around athlete that won in everything he did - he even won the 1912 Intercollegiate Ballroom Dance competition!
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
He was on the verge of not even making the long jump final, ended up with a record. He won both sprints, plus the relay. He ran under intense social pressure.
Other than that, you're probably right.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
He would have ruled on DWTS
tm3308
Well-Known Member
While none of this is factually incorrect, what does it have to do with whether or not Owens was a groundbreaking athlete?
big10fan
Well-Known Member
I just don't think you can definitely say Phelps is better than Lewis or Owens. Many recent swimmers have won multiple golds at multiple Olympics. No debate that Phelps is the greatest swimmer though. It's just apples and oranges to me.
For one point of differentiation, there is 100x more competition in track than swimming, so the field is that much harder. For two, you can't compete in that many events in track so the numbers argument isn't valid. For three there aren't 15 different relays you can compete in with track.
Those are my thoughts. Guess it's going to be an "argee to disagree" moment.
