Good Coaches Can Have Poor Seasons

[HawkeyeWalker]

I'll give you that Cordell Pemsl doesn't seem to be progressing, which is a different discussion, but everyone else on the team seems to be better this year. They just haven't put together the defensive end yet, and defense is all about understanding what you need to do and how it fits into the bigger picture. And that takes time playing together, something that the 15th youngest team in D1 basketball simply doesn't have.

Usually with ya. But at this point, other than Garza and Nunge, the guys have had enough time. They are mostly thorough their second full season with a lot of minutes. Zone isnt that hard to figure.

 

[Knight78]

Off the top of my head I'd say it's us, Colorado and Cal fighting for the bottom spot.

Good for you to look at the Pac-12 standings and say that Colorado (4-4, 12-8) is at the bottom. I guess the five teams (including Cal) that have worse records are actually better, eh?

 

[PCHawk]

Good for you to look at the Pac-12 standings and say that Colorado (4-4, 12-8) is at the bottom. I guess the five teams (including Cal) that have worse records are actually better, eh?

Colorado is at the bottom because Iowa beat them. He obviously forgot about Illinois or he would have listed them too.

 

[PCHawk]

The "attempt" at pace of play. Teams have the transition game figured. And yes, I do believe that is what leads to the opponent runs.

We've never really had the players to play as fast as we do. But this year it's killing us. A team that has trouble maintaining focus for 40 minutes (or 4 minutes) shouldn't be playing a hurry up game. If we played at a slower pace, maybe those lapses of concentration every game would cost us 8-0 runs instead of 15-0 runs.

 

[Knight78]

Usually with ya. But at this point, other than Garza and Nunge, the guys have had enough time. They are mostly thorough their second full season with a lot of minutes. Zone isnt that hard to figure.

So two freshmen, who would be the back-end cover for the outside guys, have had enough time? With those two at the back end not really knowing how to cover and how to rotate very well (there are almost no interior rotations on defense, but that's not an easy thing to learn - lots of NBA guys don't do it well) the guys on the outside tend not to play the passing lanes as aggressively, leading to.... open 3's.

Defense starts in the lane - doesn't matter if it's zone or man or some combination junk defense. It's the foundation. And like a house, if the house is shifting around why worry about leaks in the roof or doors that don't work?

And yes, zone is hard to figure out - especially for the guys that sat in the middle of a 2-3 in high school. They never had to venture farther than about 8 feet from the basket and now they are being asked to defend shots in the corner (wonder why we give up so many corner 3's?). It takes a LOT of work get get out of the "stay around the basket to get the rebound" mentality.

 

[PCHawk]

So two freshmen, who would be the back-end cover for the outside guys, have had enough time? With those two at the back end not really knowing how to cover and how to rotate very well (there are almost no interior rotations on defense, but that's not an easy thing to learn - lots of NBA guys don't do it well) the guys on the outside tend not to play the passing lanes as aggressively, leading to.... open 3's.

Defense starts in the lane - doesn't matter if it's zone or man or some combination junk defense. It's the foundation. And like a house, if the house is shifting around why worry about leaks in the roof or doors that don't work?

And yes, zone is hard to figure out - especially for the guys that sat in the middle of a 2-3 in high school. They never had to venture farther than about 8 feet from the basket and now they are being asked to defend shots in the corner (wonder why we give up so many corner 3's?). It takes a LOT of work get get out of the "stay around the basket to get the rebound" mentality.

Now I'm really confused. Who on the team has the mentality to get rebounds?

 

[pekurhawk]

Good parents can have crappy kids, crappy parents can have good kids. Angry dogs can have happy puppies, I read this on Twitter so it ain’t know lye.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

So two freshmen, who would be the back-end cover for the outside guys, have had enough time? With those two at the back end not really knowing how to cover and how to rotate very well (there are almost no interior rotations on defense, but that's not an easy thing to learn - lots of NBA guys don't do it well) the guys on the outside tend not to play the passing lanes as aggressively, leading to.... open 3's.

Defense starts in the lane - doesn't matter if it's zone or man or some combination junk defense. It's the foundation. And like a house, if the house is shifting around why worry about leaks in the roof or doors that don't work?

And yes, zone is hard to figure out - especially for the guys that sat in the middle of a 2-3 in high school. They never had to venture farther than about 8 feet from the basket and now they are being asked to defend shots in the corner (wonder why we give up so many corner 3's?). It takes a LOT of work get get out of the "stay around the basket to get the rebound" mentality.

All fair points. But still doesn't explain This big of a regression. I like Fran, but so far, this year has shook my faith. If youth is truly the primary issue, then its fair to expect massive improvements from game 1 next year. Maybe not Dance or bust, but if not in contention for the Dance going into mid Feb...youth should not even be uttered as an issue.

Garza is a frosh, and while he may not have everything figured, his effort is noticeable, that makes up for a lot.

 

[Knight78]

Now I'm really confused. Who on the team has the mentality to get rebounds?

Garza and Nunge do. They have yet to learn how to box out. In their defense, they probably didn't have to box out at all in HS - 90% of the guys their size don't have to in HS. At any level, a player that can box out will get a LOT of rebounds regardless of size.

 

[kicker22]

Garza and Nunge do. They have yet to learn how to box out. In their defense, they probably didn't have to box out at all in HS - 90% of the guys their size don't have to in HS. At any level, a player that can box out will get a LOT of rebounds regardless of size.

I simply don't understand how a player at the college level hasn't learned how to properly box out. Its one of the first fundamentals of the game that a player learns. Rebounding is about wanting it more than your opponent and putting a body on them to establish position. In my opinion its nothing more than a hustle stat.

 

[kicker22]

You should really rethink this stance. You can't say team A losing an entire starting 5 for the season has no excuse because team B had his 8th man miss two games with a sprained ankle. That is an extreme example to prove that all injuries aren't created equal. That said, our injury bug has been fairly minor. Unless Bohannon is hurt worse than its being let on anyway.

You're right, not all injuries are created equal, but record books don't use asterisks in cases in which a team is missing players. Does it affect the game, sure, but every team has them, regardless of severity, and the outcome based on what happens during the course of play, regardless of who is or isn't participating.

 

[kicker22]

Seriously? Let's go back to 1979-1980. Can you honestly say that we would not have at least been in the NCAA title game with a healthy Ronnie Lester? Can you honestly say that we would have had 9 losses that year if he were healthy? Remember that he missed 15 Big 10 games. IIRC, he was injured in the Michigan game (which we lost) and every other game we lost he was out due to the knee injury.

As someone who was born in 1979, its a bit before my time. That said, I honestly can say that we'd of had 9 loses that year, but I also can't say that we would have made it to championship. It's nothing more than a "what if" game where it's all speculation. Unfortunately history writes itself based on how things play out in real life and that's all that we can go by that has a factual basis.

 

[Hawk5656]

Good for you to look at the Pac-12 standings and say that Colorado (4-4, 12-8) is at the bottom. I guess the five teams (including Cal) that have worse records are actually better, eh?

You really think Arizona State and Oregon are worse than Colorado because they have a worse conference record? Haha!

 

[MiniMoeHawk]

Give it up Duff.

That is Herby not Duff.

 

[Knight78]

As someone who was born in 1979, its a bit before my time. That said, I honestly can say that we'd of had 9 loses that year, but I also can't say that we would have made it to championship. It's nothing more than a "what if" game where it's all speculation. Unfortunately history writes itself based on how things play out in real life and that's all that we can go by that has a factual basis.

We lost 8 of the 9 games when Ronnie was injured; with Ronnie in the lineup we were 15-1. We were tied with Louisville in the NCAA semifinal game when Ronnie went down, reinjuring his knee; we ended up losing that game by 8. Magic Johnson called Ronnie the best guard he ever played against when he was healthy.

 

[Knight78]

You really think Arizona State and Oregon are worse than Colorado because they have a worse conference record? Haha!

No. But the scoreboard tells a different tale. Colorado beat Arizona State and lost to Oregon. I guess that means that on those particular days that Colorado was better than Arizona State and worse than Oregon.

 

[trj]

So two freshmen, who would be the back-end cover for the outside guys, have had enough time? With those two at the back end not really knowing how to cover and how to rotate very well (there are almost no interior rotations on defense, but that's not an easy thing to learn - lots of NBA guys don't do it well) the guys on the outside tend not to play the passing lanes as aggressively, leading to.... open 3's.

Defense starts in the lane - doesn't matter if it's zone or man or some combination junk defense. It's the foundation. And like a house, if the house is shifting around why worry about leaks in the roof or doors that don't work?

And yes, zone is hard to figure out - especially for the guys that sat in the middle of a 2-3 in high school. They never had to venture farther than about 8 feet from the basket and now they are being asked to defend shots in the corner (wonder why we give up so many corner 3's?). It takes a LOT of work get get out of the "stay around the basket to get the rebound" mentality.

That is why it always look as if Iowa is always late getting out on shooters.

 

[PCHawk]

We lost 8 of the 9 games when Ronnie was injured; with Ronnie in the lineup we were 15-1. We were tied with Louisville in the NCAA semifinal game when Ronnie went down, reinjuring his knee; we ended up losing that game by 8. Magic Johnson called Ronnie the best guard he ever played against when he was healthy.

So either the Hawks have up during those 9 games, or injuries do matter. I'm going with the latter.

 

[kicker22]

We lost 8 of the 9 games when Ronnie was injured; with Ronnie in the lineup we were 15-1. We were tied with Louisville in the NCAA semifinal game when Ronnie went down, reinjuring his knee; we ended up losing that game by 8. Magic Johnson called Ronnie the best guard he ever played against when he was healthy.

I'm not saying his injury didn't make a difference, but there is no way to factually say that we win if he doesn't get hurt, because you cannot rewrite history. It's like saying that Iowa could have been playing for a NC if Stanzi didn't get hurt vs. Northwestern in 2009.

 

[CJHawkeye]

All fair points. But still doesn't explain This big of a regression. I like Fran, but so far, this year has shook my faith. If youth is truly the primary issue, then its fair to expect massive improvements from game 1 next year. Maybe not Dance or bust, but if not in contention for the Dance going into mid Feb...youth should not even be uttered as an issue.

Garza is a frosh, and while he may not have everything figured, his effort is noticeable, that makes up for a lot.

See the lowering of expectations next year has already started. It is dance or bust and a play in game doesn't count and a first round loss isn't acceptable.