Ghost Sightings: 6 observations from the OSU let down

[cockyhawkfan]

No, he did it a ton this summer in the PTL too. I don't think that is anything that someone who coaches professionally would teach.

No, but if he was being told to not do so you'd think he wouldn't be seeing so much PT regardless of the fact he's our only option. I too believe the coaches aren't as concerned about this as the people on this board. And as alluded to, it's something all of our PG's having been doing for years. I guess you better call out the coaches on this one. Does it make sense to me? Not in the slightest. It's along the same lines as Cougill taking 4 threes last night. A lot of people think it's him playing stupid. In reality he's taking shots the coaches are happy with. And he was damn close on all of them, they just didn't drop. Cully's going to be a very serviceable PG for the Hawks. His jump passes didn't lose the game last night. OSU's experience down the stretch did. Giving the different looks on D in the final 7 minutes exposed our lack thereof. It's what good teams do.

 

[tubahawk]

The point is that you and the rest of the "haters" on here (Freddy, Hawk12345, etc) always seem to focus and the negative, and then pound that point into the ground. Payne made some mistakes last night, but that's going to happen with a freshman point guard. He also made some good decision last night, got his teammates involved, and made Turner look foolish a couple of times.

First, I think that is the only time I've ever seen Freddy listed as a hater. My common sense told me I should have stopped reading at that point, but by then the train wreck had pulled me in.

Second, right now this team is doing more things wrong than right. It's not saying they aren't trying hard, but we are making way too many mistakes (even for a "young" team). The mistakes stick out more than the good plays. Kind of a "nobody notices what I do around here until I stop doing it." I think that is human nature to focus on the things that go wrong, particularly when we are not winning.

We lost last night. The only way to get better is to focus on those things that were done poorly and correct them. It doesn't make folks haters for pointing out these things. Just like it doesn't make you a kool-aid drinker for pointing out the good things.

Folks are getting pretty touchy about the criticism. That tells me those critiques must be hitting pretty close to home.

 

[FreddyBrown]

Why were our players tired and not OSU's?


Lighty played 40 minutes.

Diebler played 37 minutes.

Turner played 34 minutes.

Buford played 36 minutes

Lauderdale played 32 minutes.


Iowa in fact had 1 more player play off the bench than OSU did.


Cougill and Bawinkel got the most minutes off the bench for EITHER team. Not one OSU bench player had more minutes than either of these two.

Lickliter made this point on the postgame, when Dolph tried to give him the "our guys were worn out" hook, he said their guys played more minutes than ours did (on average).

 

[FreddyBrown]

First, I think that is the only time I've ever seen Freddy listed as a hater. My common sense told me I should have stopped reading at that point, but by then the train wreck had pulled me in.

Thanks for noticing, Tuba. ;-) Actually Shada seems to be on a personal crusade to attach that label to me, as I've seen at least one other such post from him. His feelings must be hurt over some debate he lost.

In any event, if I'm a "hater," this program needs at least 15,499 others just like me.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

Thanks for noticing, Tuba. ;-) Actually Shada seems to be on a personal crusade to attach that label to me, as I've seen at least one other such post from him. His feelings must be hurt over some debate he lost.

In any event, if I'm a "hater," this program needs at least 15,499 others just like me.

It's had to pick a winner or loser in an internet debate on an anonymous internet message board. If your posts concerning the Iowa basketball weren't inherently negative, I wouldn't say such things.

 

[tubahawk]

Thanks for noticing, Tuba. ;-) Actually Shada seems to be on a personal crusade to attach that label to me, as I've seen at least one other such post from him. His feelings must be hurt over some debate he lost.

In any event, if I'm a "hater," this program needs at least 15,499 others just like me.

It's baffling that someone with season tickets can be called a "hater". Were you the one who used to have the tickets behind the knitting lady? Maybe that's the reason for the animosity against you. Shada misses the knitting lady updates.

 

[AZmess]

Just because your Junior High coach told you "Never jump to pass" doesn't make it a bad play ALL the time. Yes he hit the back of the backboard with the very first one, but he also made some very good passes off that play too. When I coached, I was as hard on my PG's (insert joke here) as anyone. So believe when I say, as long as the ball gets where it needs to go, what's the big deal?

I really liked Cully's game last night. 6 assists to 4 TO's and for a stretch there in the second half was getting into the lane at will. PLUS, he also had 3 rebounds. He rebounds well for a guard.

He's going to keep getting better. I don't think he played stupid last night. In fact, for me, he was my player of the game.
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LIVE SEX

 

[AZmess]

I also think its a misconception that OSU's changing defenses bothered the team last night. I can remember once....the Bawinkle timeout. I thought we did a good job of attacking that 1-3-1. Got the rim 3 or 4 times. Didn't convert once. Sure it helps to have Lauderdale back there, but I thought the team did a good job of recognizing the change and exploiting it. Just didn't convert.
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Vape Info

 

[busabus114]

No, but if he was being told to not do so you'd think he wouldn't be seeing so much PT regardless of the fact he's our only option. I too believe the coaches aren't as concerned about this as the people on this board. And as alluded to, it's something all of our PG's having been doing for years. I guess you better call out the coaches on this one. Does it make sense to me? Not in the slightest. It's along the same lines as Cougill taking 4 threes last night. A lot of people think it's him playing stupid. In reality he's taking shots the coaches are happy with. And he was damn close on all of them, they just didn't drop. Cully's going to be a very serviceable PG for the Hawks. His jump passes didn't lose the game last night. OSU's experience down the stretch did. Giving the different looks on D in the final 7 minutes exposed our lack thereof. It's what good teams do.

The reason Cully is playing is because the other option is Lil lick. My guess without knowing is that the coaches are not pleased when Cully turns the ball over and more often than not his TO's come from a jump pass. He is doing a good job and he brings a lot to the table but the notion that he is being coached to make jump passes is laughable.

 

[busabus114]

Just because your Junior High coach told you "Never jump to pass" doesn't make it a bad play ALL the time. Yes he hit the back of the backboard with the very first one, but he also made some very good passes off that play too. When I coached, I was as hard on my PG's (insert joke here) as anyone. So believe when I say, as long as the ball gets where it needs to go, what's the big deal?

I really liked Cully's game last night. 6 assists to 4 TO's and for a stretch there in the second half was getting into the lane at will. PLUS, he also had 3 rebounds. He rebounds well for a guard.

He's going to keep getting better. I don't think he played stupid last night. In fact, for me, he was my player of the game.

Eric May would like a word with you

 

[tubahawk]

So believe when I say, as long as the ball gets where it needs to go, what's the big deal?

The issue for me is that it seems to contradict the supposed "system" that is based on playing percentages and valuing every possession. It's shouldn't be if he can get away with its okay, if it hits the backboard it's a stupid play. (i.e. No Harm No Foul). The jump pass is not a high percentage success play for reasons we saw last night. Just because he got away with it a couple of times doesn't mean we should condone it.

It's a bad habit that, in the long run, will likely cause us more turnovers than points and the coaches need to put a stop to it.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

The issue for me is that it seems to contradict the supposed "system" that is based on playing percentages and valuing every possession. It's shouldn't be if he can get away with its okay, if it hits the backboard it's a stupid play. (i.e. No Harm No Foul). The jump pass is not a high percentage success play for reasons we saw last night. Just because he got away with it a couple of times doesn't mean we should condone it.

It's a bad habit that, in the long run, will likely cause us more turnovers than points and the coaches need to put a stop to it.

The flip side of that argument is that if the coaches really thought it was a problem, Payne would have seen the bench last night. The coaches don't seem to think (at least not publicly) that it's a problem.

 

[HawkDad]

Time to stop blaming the jump passes on Cully. I think he's being coached that way.

Ok, then he's being coached "stupid".

I help coach a local Iowa City 8th grade boys team, and if one of our players attempted one of those jump-pass, he would quickly get to know the bench.

 

[tubahawk]

The flip side of that argument is that if the coaches really thought it was a problem, Payne would have seen the bench last night. The coaches don't seem to think (at least not publicly) that it's a problem.

There is some truth to that.

However... the alternative is John Lickliter so it's not like there is a capable guy to substitute in for Cully when he's in the dog house. But, Lickliter has not been afraid to put John in games so you are right that at least publicly, this doesn't seem to be an egregious enough error in the minds of the coaches that is worthy of being benched.

 

[woodyk1]

There is some truth to that.

However... the alternative is John Lickliter so it's not like there is a capable guy to substitute in for Cully when he's in the dog house. But, Lickliter has not been afraid to put John in games so you are right that at least publicly, this doesn't seem to be an egregious enough error in the minds of the coaches that is worthy of being benched.

Payne was subbed out of the Michigan State game for John when he threw some passes into the stands. I think it is the degree of error and the current state of the player (Payne was clearly rattled at that point) that matters.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

There is some truth to that.

However... the alternative is John Lickliter so it's not like there is a capable guy to substitute in for Cully when he's in the dog house. But, Lickliter has not been afraid to put John in games so you are right that at least publicly, this doesn't seem to be an egregious enough error in the minds of the coaches that is worthy of being benched.

So if the coaches don't think it's a problem...Cully was firing jump passes left and right last night, with the majority of the finding their target.

I guess what I'm saying is that if Lickliter or anything else on the staff thought this was something that needed to be "corrected" that
A.) The correction would have taken place by now
B.) Payne would be riding the bench, and Lil' John would be starting.

 

[busabus114]

So if the coaches don't think it's a problem...Cully was firing jump passes left and right last night, with the majority of the finding their target.

I guess what I'm saying is that if Lickliter or anything else on the staff thought this was something that needed to be "corrected" that
A.) The correction would have taken place by now
B.) Payne would be riding the bench, and Lil' John would be starting.

You dont honestly believe that do you? Lil Lick starting over a prized recruit? Lickliter is not that dumb - the jump passes alone are not reason to be pulled from the starting line up and thats why it hasnt been done. Like i said before Payne brings a lot to the table that outweigh his mistakes.

You cant say he would be benched if the coaches didnt like the jump passes because that doesnt account for all of the positives in his game. Using the same logic you cant assume that since he is still starting the coaches enjoy his jump passes. It isnt one or the other.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

You dont honestly believe that do you? Lil Lick starting over a prized recruit? Lickliter is not that dumb - the jump passes alone are not reason to be pulled from the starting line up and thats why it hasnt been done. Like i said before Payne brings a lot to the table that outweigh his mistakes.

You cant say he would be benched if the coaches didnt like the jump passes because that doesnt account for all of the positives in his game. Using the same logic you cant assume that since he is still starting the coaches enjoy his jump passes. It isnt one or the other.

What I'm getting is that Lick has sent better players than Payne to the bench for not playing "in the system." Tony Freeman comes to mind. I was using an extreme example (Payne being benched) to drive home the point that if the coaches don't have a problem with his jump passes, we shouldn't either, especially if they're not hurting the team, which they haven't been.

 

[talkinhawks]

Payne has made some freshman mistakes this season and the jump pass is maybe not the most efficient way to deliver the ball, but I have to hand it to Cully; he did a great job of handling the pressure last night.

Shada, you pointed out that he threw his first jump pass off the backboard, but then you don't make mention of the fact that he had two jump passes across the court that both resulted in threes late in the 2nd half (One to May and one by Bawinkle). Those were both excellent finds by Cully and the announcers were loving his play.

Cully is the only legitimate ball handler on this team and that is a lot to ask of a freshman. Looking at OSU's front 4 (Turner, Lighty, Diebler, Buford) they are as tall and athletic as Iowa will see all year. Iowa only had 11 turnover's against OSU and that is remarkable given Iowa's problems with to's.

Be happy that they played well. Payne was not even close to the reason this one slipped away.

 

[parquet]

Just because your Junior High coach told you "Never jump to pass" doesn't make it a bad play ALL the time. Yes he hit the back of the backboard with the very first one, but he also made some very good passes off that play too. When I coached, I was as hard on my PG's (insert joke here) as anyone. So believe when I say, as long as the ball gets where it needs to go, what's the big deal?

I really liked Cully's game last night. 6 assists to 4 TO's and for a stretch there in the second half was getting into the lane at will. PLUS, he also had 3 rebounds. He rebounds well for a guard.

He's going to keep getting better. I don't think he played stupid last night. In fact, for me, he was my player of the game.

Give his due, AZ, he had 6 rebounds.