Garza Great no one else above bad

[#1DieHardHawk]

I don't mean this as a dig, I really don't, but Garza makes Fran look a lot better than he is.

He's not a terrible coach per se and has some positive attributes, but I shudder to think what this team (even if healthy) would look like without Garza and his self-driven monumental progression as a player.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I don't mean this as a dig, I really don't, but Garza makes Fran look a lot better than he is.

He's not a terrible coach per se and has some positive attributes, but I shudder to think what this team (even if healthy) would look like without Garza and his self-driven monumental progression as a player.

Or worse, how it would look if Cook, Dailey and Moss had all stayed...

 

[PCHawk]

I don't mean this as a dig, I really don't, but Garza makes Fran look a lot better than he is.

He's not a terrible coach per se and has some positive attributes, but I shudder to think what this team (even if healthy) would look like without Garza and his self-driven monumental progression as a player.

The goal as a coach is to get really good players. Fran has been really close on quite a few and finally landed one. Almost every good coach out there looks good because of his players. If this team was everyone healthy with Garza out, we would be around. 500 in the conference at the end of the year. What's better, Garza or Bohannon, Nunge, Patrick, and a healthy CJ for Penn State, Nebraska, and Indiana? I'd say it's pretty darn close. Also, take the best player off any team and see what happens. Or you can ask Michigan what happens.

 

[dahlhawk]

Tough to win a road game when an opponent's bench player goes off for 25 on 7-11 shooting behind the arc. Granted Iowa's perimeter defense had a lot to do with it but they still have to make the shots. That stretch where Green hit 4 straight 3s and a teammate hit another in under 3 minutes was the difference in the game. Hell Iowa beat Indiana by 3 in the second half. It's not like the team completely folded like I thought they would after CJF went down.

Joe W was struggling with Indiana's in your face and ride your hip defense. That Smith guy played some really good defense on him and was frustrating the heck out of Joe in the first half. Joe bounced back though and ended up with 16. He struggled compared to what we're used to seeing but it's not like he was bad. 6-11 shooting, 16 points, 6 boards, and 2 steals with 2 turnovers is not what most would consider bad.

Garza played 40 and was still super effective til the end which is nuts.

The other 3 starters had a combined 7 points. CJF posted a donut in 11 minutes before he went down. Connor and Joe T will need to provide more than 7 per game moving forward.

Evelyn surprisingly provided 9 bench points but the 4 turnovers hurt.

Kriener was in foul trouble and only pitched in 6.

It was a road game in the Big Ten and Indiana was favored. I'm not upset at all but like others, I am worried about depth down the stretch assuming CJF will be out a while.

Those shots by Green weren't wide open, many were step-back with an Iowa player closing hands up. Some he just shot over a smaller Joe T. The guy has pro potential and just had the coach put him on the bench, I expected him to come out firing. That's good coaching, sit a star player for not giving effort and challenge him.

 

[Seth53]

Replace 'bad' with 'inconsistent' and there you go.

 

[Seth53]

Saw a tweet from espn listing 4 big men asking which one deserves the Wooden award more. None of them were Garza. Almost every single reply was about Garza. The secret is out. He's gonna win the award.

Think about this for a second.
The NCAA tourney selection process, while metric's based, is also political, albeit quietly. The NCAA likes to display its top players whenever possible, right?
My assumption, because of Garza, Iowa will surely get an invite to the NCAA, with a decent seed at that.
No way they relegate a player of the year to the NIT?!

 

[HawkGold]

Or worse, how it would look if Cook, Dailey and Moss had all stayed...

You dont know that of course. I think you will see the big is way down at the top. What has changed is IL, Rutgers, and PSU now have a pulse. NW and Nebby have dropped.

Daily by his build and tools might have slowed the rain of 3. Cook and Garza a killer inside. Cook would have to have his shots respected.

CM....beat the dead horse...is a problem. Therefore Dean is a problem.

Rutgers and PSU are actually contending. At what point will Fran contend for a full year. 10 years in. Nebby in a few years for sure is going to. W will likely be back. OSU and IU will maybe get better. MN is locked into Tom Davis mode... Only worse.

Where do you see Iowa going?

 

[hawkeyebob62]

You dont know that of course. I think you will see the big is way down at the top. What has changed is IL, Rutgers, and PSU now have a pulse. NW and Nebby have dropped.

Daily by his build and tools might have slowed the rain of 3. Cook and Garza a killer inside. Cook would have to have his shots respected.

CM....beat the dead horse...is a problem. Therefore Dean is a problem.

Rutgers and PSU are actually contending. At what point will Fran contend for a full year. 10 years in. Nebby in a few years for sure is going to. W will likely be back. OSU and IU will maybe get better. MN is locked into Tom Davis mode... Only worse.

Where do you see Iowa going?

No idea where it's going. I only know that, for once, "addition-by-subtraction" is actually a viable opinion (let's face it, usually it's balderdash) for this particular season. Not that it "couldn't" work if all 3 were still here, but last May 99.9999% of Hawkeye Nation didn't see a 10-loss team, let alone a 7-loss team. Hell, after the DePaul game, there were people thought 10 WINS would be a stretch.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

The goal as a coach is to get really good players. Fran has been really close on quite a few and finally landed one. Almost every good coach out there looks good because of his players. If this team was everyone healthy with Garza out, we would be around. 500 in the conference at the end of the year. What's better, Garza or Bohannon, Nunge, Patrick, and a healthy CJ for Penn State, Nebraska, and Indiana? I'd say it's pretty darn close. Also, take the best player off any team and see what happens. Or you can ask Michigan what happens.

Yeah, take any good player off of any team and you will see a drop. That's common sense, but, I think the situation with Garza is qualitatively different though. The question is whether or not Fran can take credit for what we are seeing with Garza?

From a recruiting standpoint, while he was a very good get for Fran, I wouldn't say he was a major recruiting coup. He wasn't a top 100 prospect nationally and didn't have any "blue-blood" offers. Even Maryland didn't offer despite being in close proximity. Very good job by Fran, but I don't think even he could say with a straight face that he saw this level of a player at the time.

From a play standpoint, Garza's other-worldly ascension from last season to this season has for the most part been self-made. I don't think anyone saw it coming. Fran gets some credit, yes, but for the most part he is just reaping the rewards.

Obviously it's all speculation, but I disagree that trading Garza for JBo, Nunge and Patrick is close. Bohannon would cut into a lot of the minutes played by CJ, so that's basically a wash since we would probably about break even offensively and would take a step back defensively. Also, a lot of the open looks that occur on the perimeter, occur because of the presence of Garza.

That leaves Nunge (who has yet to prove that he's a B1G quality player IMO) and Patrick (an undersized true frosh) as the trade for Garza. Our depth would be better, but in terms of how the records would shake out, I'll take the team with Garza there by a mile.

We may find out next season. I hope Garza stays, but if he leaves and everyone else returns, we'll see almost that exact scenario play out.

 

[PCHawk]

You dont know that of course. I think you will see the big is way down at the top. What has changed is IL, Rutgers, and PSU now have a pulse. NW and Nebby have dropped.

Daily by his build and tools might have slowed the rain of 3. Cook and Garza a killer inside. Cook would have to have his shots respected.

CM....beat the dead horse...is a problem. Therefore Dean is a problem.

Rutgers and PSU are actually contending. At what point will Fran contend for a full year. 10 years in. Nebby in a few years for sure is going to. W will likely be back. OSU and IU will maybe get better. MN is locked into Tom Davis mode... Only worse.

Where do you see Iowa going?

At what point will Fran contend for a full year? 2015.

 

[PCHawk]

Yeah, take any good player off of any team and you will see a drop. That's common sense, but, I think the situation with Garza is qualitatively different though. The question is whether or not Fran can take credit for what we are seeing with Garza?

From a recruiting standpoint, while he was a very good get for Fran, I wouldn't say he was a major recruiting coup. He wasn't a top 100 prospect nationally and didn't have any "blue-blood" offers. Even Maryland didn't offer despite being in close proximity. Very good job by Fran, but I don't think even he could say with a straight face that he saw this level of a player at the time.

From a play standpoint, Garza's other-worldly ascension from last season to this season has for the most part been self-made. I don't think anyone saw it coming. Fran gets some credit, yes, but for the most part he is just reaping the rewards.

Obviously it's all speculation, but I disagree that trading Garza for JBo, Nunge and Patrick is close. Bohannon would cut into a lot of the minutes played by CJ, so that's basically a wash since we would probably about break even offensively and would take a step back defensively. Also, a lot of the open looks that occur on the perimeter, occur because of the presence of Garza.

That leaves Nunge (who has yet to prove that he's a B1G quality player IMO) and Patrick (an undersized true frosh) as the trade for Garza. Our depth would be better, but in terms of how the records would shake out, I'll take the team with Garza there by a mile.

We may find out next season. I hope Garza stays, but if he leaves and everyone else returns, we'll see almost that exact scenario play out.

Fran told Frank Garza that Luka would be a 2000 point scorer here. Truth is, Garza's offense was way better than his production showed last year. This year, his offense is a little better, his defense and rebounding is way better, and his body is way better. (No homo)

As far as Bohannon taking minutes from CJ, I completely disagree. They would both play close to the max amount they could handle. Bohannon would be taking minutes from Evelyn, Joe T, and Connor. Not CJ.

 

[HawkGold]

At what point will Fran contend for a full year? 2015.

3 out of first. 3 way tie for 3rd. sort of.

You do realize you mention one year in 10 and that was at best sort of.

 

[PCHawk]

3 out of first. 3 way tie for 3rd. sort of.

You do realize you mention one year in 10 and that was at best sort of.

We played indiana the 2nd to last game tho so we were in the race with 2 games to go. And yes I realize it is one year out of ten. But that's irrelevant to your question "when will Fran compete until the end". Not to mention it's a dumb year to raise that question considering we very well might have this year without injuries.

 

[HawkGold]

We played indiana the 2nd to last game tho so we were in the race with 2 games to go. And yes I realize it is one year out of ten. But that's irrelevant to your question "when will Fran compete until the end". Not to mention it's a dumb year to raise that question considering we very well might have this year without injuries.

Agree, but IL, Rutgers and others can say the same about injuries.

Its sort of like talking about teams and players having career nights against Iowa. You make your your own breaks over time.

 

[PCHawk]

Agree, but IL, Rutgers and others can say the same about injuries.

Its sort of like talking about teams and players having career nights against Iowa. You make your your own breaks over time.

Those teams lost 60% of their starting lineup and a key reserve? You think they would show all their players on the bench in suits like they show ours every game.

 

[HawkGold]

Those teams lost 60% of their starting lineup and a key reserve? You think they would show all their players on the bench in suits like they show ours every game.

Rutgers and IL lost their best player by far for a time.

 

[PCHawk]

Rutgers and IL lost their best player by far for a time.

When was Illinois best player hurt?

 

[HawkGold]

When was Illinois best player hurt?

At the end of msu. Missed Rutgers.

 

[PCHawk]

At the end of msu. Missed Rutgers.

I wondered if that's what you meant lol. They had one player miss one game that they lost. That's not even in the same ball park of what's happened to iowa this year. If he misses the rest of the year it will get closer to said ballpark.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

Fran told Frank Garza that Luka would be a 2000 point scorer here. Truth is, Garza's offense was way better than his production showed last year. This year, his offense is a little better, his defense and rebounding is way better, and his body is way better. (No homo)

As far as Bohannon taking minutes from CJ, I completely disagree. They would both play close to the max amount they could handle. Bohannon would be taking minutes from Evelyn, Joe T, and Connor. Not CJ.

The way Fran rotates the guards with different combinations, everyone's minutes will take a hit when Bohannon comes back, including CJ. By how much? Time will tell.

But, back to the point. I sincerely hope the program continues rolling along after Garza leaves, but my prediction is that we will take a bigger step back than you think.