DuffMan
Well-Known Member
One of us will be laughing in a little more than a year.
For the Vandenberg Bashers
- Thread starter JonDMiller
- Start date
One of us will be laughing in a little more than a year.
To say a QB is better or worse than another based on a teams W/L record just shows you have no idea what you are talking about at all.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
You mean Tebow isn't better than Cam?
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Testy, aren't we? Look at the FACTS:
Stanzi: Road wins at Michigan, MSU, PSU, Wisconsin, blah blah blah
JVB: Road win at Purdue
Stanzi: 3-0 bowl record
JVB: 0-1 bowl record
Who said anything about "hater"? And what would being a "hater" have to do with the fact that JVB, while having some excellent skills, is not as good a QB as Stanzi or Tate (thus far)?
Face it: He is NOT good enough, yet, to put this team on his back and carry it to the next level. If he WAS...he WOULD HAVE. Simple as that.
People can bi*ch all they want about the D, the D-Line, etc., but Tate had a completely new D-Line in 2005, was injured in the game at ISU, and was missing Ed Hinkel for 2 1/2 games.
Stanzi was missing RBs, OL, etc., throughout his career. It happens. The better QBs overcome that. JVB simply isn't there yet.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
I think JVB needs to reflect on whether he really wishes to be a D1 football player.
The camera shot where he was head in hands on the bench late in the 4th Q didn't look like someone with a potentially dangerous brain injury, such as a concussion. If he got one, it's minor. I've had a concussion. I saw spots, got way disoriented, and walked aimlessly, had trouble forming coherent expressions, etc. I have also witnessed others with concussions. I have NEVER seen anyone with a concussion pout. It doesn't occur to one to sulk, pout, cry, etc. You're in shock. But I have seen that kind of sulking.
When my sons were much younger and sat like that, in their bedrooms, head in hands, they were bemoaning the terrible unfairness of it all and were sulking like babies. I think JVB is a wimp, but I don't blame him for it. I think he has an empty sack. I also think he has rather an inflated opinion of himself, one that likely has been much worse the past few years as everyone has been telling him he's the New Chuck. So let's look at that. Take his chosen number. Nobody made him choose that. It was purely his choice, contingent upon availability. But at Iowa, in the present, choosing that jersey number makes a very particular statement about how you view yourself and your role on/for the team, and I am not certain it's all that positive. He compared himself to other people that have worn that number, and I think that was unwise. It isn't fair to himself. He also isn't a microscopic figment of an *** pimple on the guy that really filled Iowa jersey #16. Just the way it is.
I think about 1/2 of JVB in the 4th Q really thought he could beat OU with his magic touch and golden spiral. The other half was cognizant of what he was facing, even if OU isn't this year the nasty they usually are. I think his lack of pocket presence is deeper. His happy feet and bizarre passes might indicate a certain conflict or tension in himself. People have built him up for years, but the plays he is producing on the gridiron don't reflect the constructed plot, of Iowa #16 tossing miraculous touchdown passes, of the videos he's seen of that awesome image, as he heard those mighty tales at Grandpa's knee. He looks like a kid that believed all the hype and ******** about himself, and yet now it's real work. Now, the other team is also trying to win. They don't just lay down and die like all those HS teams. He probably was a special HS QB, back in those halcyon days of general athletic parity, when really special players stand out like supernovae. This is much harder. There are players even better than him on the field, and instead of relying on HIS TEAM to improvise, adapt, and overcome he chokes. Not all the time. But he chokes far too frequently to be a Great One.
He can wear Iowa jersey #16. But he cannot fill it. And the more I see him play, the more I recognize that he KNOWS it.
Just my two cents.
You lost me on the first sentence.
JVB HAS the skills to be a d1 QB, and then some. He runs better than people think, throws a great deep ball, can make the hard/difficult throws. No question in my mind, Howard Griffith was right on when he said JVB has the potential to be best "pure passer" in B1G.
However, his decision-making, panicky nature and "vision" remind me too much of Jake. BUT...Jake had half (or less) the passing skills JVB has. Like Stanzi, JVB probably has fewer "measureables" in camp (shuttle, 40, etc.) than Jake. But, also like Stanzi, he has the one thing that makes him infinitely better than Jake: ability to move the team downfield "vertically". Frankly, if JVB develops a pump fake anywhere close to Stanzi's, he could help KD and KMM to monster years next season.
But he needs to slow the game down in his head for ALL situations, not just SOME of them.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Nope. People who actually pay attention to what happens on the field can say it, too. Statistics are meaningless unless you compare ALL of them, or the SAME set. Just as negatively comparing JVB to Jake is dumb, positively comparing him to Stanzi or Tate is equally so.
Making "junior year" comparisons is hardly better. JVB actually played less a soph than he did as a freshman, while Tate didn't have the benefit of a redshirt year, and Stanzi was, for some reason known only to God and the staff, sitting behind Arvell Nelson in 2007.
Tate got the reins as a sophomore with little doubt. Stanzi had to "take" them from Jake a redshirt sophomore, while JVB was given the keys to the huddle as a redshirt junior.
It's pretty simple: at this point, JVB has not been as successful as Tate or Stanzi.
INTIMIDATORHawk
Well-Known Member
Vandenburg's statistics indicate he is and will be a great QB. It helped that Iowa played a very soft non conference schedule and the Big Ten cellar-dwellers (Minnesota, Indiana). He also had the Big Ten's best wide receiver to throw to all season who made some great plays himself and helped JVB with those stats.
His problem is that he is horrible when the defense brings pressure. It makes for a simple recipe for teams to beat Iowa. Pressure JVB and he will make bad and/or inaccurate throws.
No way he gets drafted if his composure in the pocket doesn't improve or when the defense has him on the run.
I'm confident in saying that his statistics next season won't be nearly as good as they were this year. He doesn't have McNutt to throw to anymore, and the O-line is going to lose a few guys.
His problem is that he is horrible when the defense brings pressure. It makes for a simple recipe for teams to beat Iowa. Pressure JVB and he will make bad and/or inaccurate throws.
No way he gets drafted if his composure in the pocket doesn't improve or when the defense has him on the run.
I'm confident in saying that his statistics next season won't be nearly as good as they were this year. He doesn't have McNutt to throw to anymore, and the O-line is going to lose a few guys.
Yeah, because what is really important is passing yards and completion percentages, who cares about wins.
This team won't win with him at quarterback, unless of course the defense is top 5 in the country. Which will be impossible, because they'll be on the field all day because Vandenberg can't throw for a first on 3rd down situations to save his life. He has no composure when being rushed or blitzed and has very little field awareness. Plus, he rarely has the ability to audible to an effective play based on what the defense is showing.
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bcl20
Well-Known Member
The stats pretty much say all of this if you know what your looking for and the flaws in all the statistics you are using. I probably phrased what I said incorrectly, I think there is a general misunderstanding of statistics in sports periods. People use stats they don't understand to support their understanding while at the same time there are people who shrug stats off they don't understand by saying that "stats can be cherry picked to indicate win their argument"
I do agree though that watching football is important to maintain an understanding of individual talent as well as it is a such a team dependent game though a proper understanding of statistics helps too.
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bcl20
Well-Known Member
Stats measure individual performance, wins measure team performance.
DarthKinnick
Well-Known Member
He will be in his senior season next year.
No reason the game should be too fast at this point.
It's on him.
He's afraid to get hit. Man up, sack up, whatever. Fits the team.
Coach afraid to run plays, coach afraid to recruit, QB afraid to get hit....it fits.
No reason the game should be too fast at this point.
It's on him.
He's afraid to get hit. Man up, sack up, whatever. Fits the team.
Coach afraid to run plays, coach afraid to recruit, QB afraid to get hit....it fits.
hogeye
Well-Known Member
You can state this, and there is an element of truth to it, but to ignore the fact that QB's are, and legitimately so, largely gauged on their W/L record is just being disingenuous about the topic.
bcl20
Well-Known Member
Who is gauging players solely by W/L record? The people who are doing so are generally analytical and lack a solid understanding of fundamental statistics.
There are so many variables that go into a W/L record for an individual player that it is an incredibly useless tool to use.
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hogeye
Well-Known Member
Nobody said "solely".
hogeye
Well-Known Member
Well, not only if, to be fair about the situation I think JVB himself has a lot of growing to do. Statistically, overall, he had a great year. Yet he clearly struggles with pocket pressure and he needs to be able to move the offense down the field and score against the tougher defenses, especially on the road. But you're absolutely right, he is a serviceable QB and I hope he continues in his development.
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That is not what the Pitts game showed....To bad the coaches were not smart enough to plan off that game.
CFHawk
Well-Known Member
Agree he was awesome in the Pitt game. But on a season long basis he cannot carry the team.
archiehawk
Well-Known Member
JV would set every single season record in the Iowa book if we could only figure out how to play all 12 games against Tenn. Tech,,ULM or the Indianas of the football world.
Bigtenchamp
Well-Known Member
There is a lot more to playing Quarterback than having a strong arm.
JVB has potential for sure but he has some pretty major flaws right now that really show up in pressure situations against quality teams.
JVB has potential for sure but he has some pretty major flaws right now that really show up in pressure situations against quality teams.
