Fitzgerald v. Ferentz: Who is the better coach?

PhoenixHawk said:
Last 3 Northwestern coaches:


Gary Barnett: 23-33 conference record, won Big 10 title in 4th year.
Randy Walker: 24-32 conference record, won Big 10 title in second year.
Patty Fitz: 27-37 conference record, 0 B10 titles, 8 years.


Pat Fitzgerald: Most Overrated coach in the B10.
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Again, Fitz walked into a complete tire fire because Walker died a few weeks before the season. Fitz was like 31 when he got the head job and despite that, he managed to put up the same 2-6 conference record that Ferentz put up that year. This year marks the 10th anniversary of Ferentz's last Big Ten title and 5th anniversary of that great 2009 season, so we haven't been given a lot to brag about from Kurt, either.

Anyway, yeah, Fitz's record stinks. Blah blah blah. Here's why I think Fitz is a damned good coach - his team has only been blown out twice in the past two years (Wisconsin and MSU last year and maybe PSU in 2012). He's had good teams the past two years, but when Colter got hurt last year, they just couldn't overcome the injury and they found a way to lose every close game just like we've seen from some Iowa teams in the past.
 
ICHawk24 said:
Meyer has coached at Bowling Green, Utah, Florida and OSU, and his worst season was 8-5 or 8-3. His career record is 128-25. Yet somehow there are a lot of people out there who think he is lucky or something. Unbelievable.
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People keep commenting on the "lucky," but it is the "or something" that was the point about Meyer. His extra advantage is not being lucky, but working on or below the margins of the rules. And this becomes an even bigger advantage at major schools like Florida and Ohio State that have well-established traditions related to the "or somethings."
 
okeefe4prez said:
Thanks for bringing up Standford in a Northwestern/Iowa thread. Delta. Bravo.
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No problem, I just didnt want those that worshipped Patty Fitz to get carried away and think he is really doing something "unbelievable". Hes not, and its really not hard to see.

I provided Stanford as an example of a football program doing some unbelievable things with high admission standards. The comparison or the Stanford program and the NU program is about as close to apples and oranges as you can get when it comes to on field success.
 
HawkIPA said:
No problem, I just didnt want those that worshipped Patty Fitz to get carried away and think he is really doing something "unbelievable". Hes not, and its really not hard to see.

I provided Stanford as an example of a football program doing some unbelievable things with high admission standards. The comparison or the Stanford program and the NU program is about as close to apples and oranges as you can get when it comes to on field success.
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No, Standford will bend admissions requirements, has a better recruiting base, national brand and history. Northwestern is much more akin to Duke than Standford. Delta Bravo.
 
okeefe4prez said:
No, Standford will bend admissions requirements- Link?

has a better recruiting base- That is debatable.

national brand and history. No doubt and props to Stanford for building their brand, something NU has failed to do.

Northwestern is much more akin to Duke than Standford. - Duke is more successful in football and as everybody knows is light years ahead of NU in basketball prestige. NU is moar like an Ivy League school smack dab in the middle of the midwest that cant consistenly compete in any major revenue sport.

Delta Bravo. - wut?
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tm3308 said:
By all means, keep believing that Meyer is no better of a coach than Ferentz.
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Where did I say that? I didn't. I said put he or Saban at Iowa and they would do no better than KF OR Iowa would end up on probation. There are inherent disadvantages at Iowa. Believe it or not, but it's fact.
 
Arguing that Duke is more successful than Northwestern in football is pretty debatable, at best. Historically speaking, they're relatively even across the board in terms of win%, bowl appearances, bowl wins, conference championships, etc. Duke, prior to this past season, hadn't finished a year ranked since 1962, had one conference title and played in (and lost) three bowls. Northwestern, just in the last 20 years, has won three conference titles, been ranked in the final polls three times and played in eight bowls (1-7). All while competing in a better conference.

Also, Delta Bravo=DB.
 
tm3308 said:
Arguing that Duke is more successful than Northwestern in football is pretty debatable, at best. Historically speaking, they're relatively even across the board in terms of win%, bowl appearances, bowl wins, conference championships, etc. Duke, prior to this past season, hadn't finished a year ranked since 1962, had one conference title and played in (and lost) three bowls. Northwestern, just in the last 20 years, has won three conference titles, been ranked in the final polls three times and played in eight bowls (1-7). All while competing in a better conference.

Also, Delta Bravo=DB.
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You failed to mention that Duke was rated in the final coaches poll the 9 previous seasons before your odd starting point of after the 1962 season.

The Blue Devils also have a 2-3 record in BCS level bowl games (5 appearances combined in the Orange and Rose Bowls dating back to 1939)
 
hawkeyebob62 said:
Where did I say that? I didn't. I said put he or Saban at Iowa and they would do no better than KF OR Iowa would end up on probation. There are inherent disadvantages at Iowa. Believe it or not, but it's fact.
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And why would they get put on probation? They've neither one been caught and they've had plenty of success at multiple stops. Meyer won a BCS bowl in two years at Utah, and he turned Bowling Green around on a dime. He was only there for two years, too, so any dirty recruiting would have had little impact. Saban took over a Toledo program that was 6-5 in each of the two seasons prior to his arrival and led them to a 9-2 finish in his only season there. Then he took an MSU program that hadn't had a winning season since 1990 and coached them to four winning seasons, including a 9-2 season in his last year, despite having to deal with NCAA sanctions incurred by his predecessor.

Iowa would almost certainly win more with Saban or Meyer at the helm.
 
HawkIPA said:
You failed to mention that Duke was rated in the final coaches poll the 9 previous seasons before your odd starting point of after the 1962 season.

The Blue Devils also have a 2-3 record in BCS level bowl games (5 appearances combined in the Orange and Rose Bowls dating back to 1939)
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By all means, Duke is a powerhouse because of what they did 70 years ago. In any remotely meaningful timeframe, Northwestern has been a much more successful football program than Duke.

BTW, it's hardly "odd" to start in 1962. No more so than it's odd to say Northwestern hadn't won a bowl game since 1948 or the Cubs haven't won a World Series since 1908. 50 years is a long ******* time to go without being ranked and have just one bowl appearance.
 
tm3308 said:
By all means, Duke is a powerhouse because of what they did 70 years ago. In any remotely meaningful timeframe, Northwestern has been a much more successful football program than Duke.

BTW, it's hardly "odd" to start in 1962. No more so than it's odd to say Northwestern hadn't won a bowl game since 1948 or the Cubs haven't won a World Series since 1908. 50 years is a long ******* time to go without being ranked and have just one bowl appearance.
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Yeah, a 52 year time frame is odd. Im guessing you saw Duke was ranked 9 years in a row and then picked the first year they werent after that and went with that since there was a huge streak of years being unranked that followed 1962.

Did I call Duke a powerhouse? No.

Its pretty easy to see that they have had a more successful football program, historically, then NU has.
 
HawkIPA said:
Yeah, a 52 year time frame is odd. Im guessing you saw Duke was ranked 9 years in a row and then picked the first year they werent after that and went with that since there was a huge streak of years being unranked that followed 1962.

Did I call Duke a powerhouse? No.

Its pretty easy to see that they have had a more successful football program, historically, then NU has.
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Because a 50+ year absence from the polls doesn't stand out at all when discussing the futility of a football program. Not at all. Duke has had practically zero success in 50+ years. That's kind of a big deal when you're suggesting that Northwestern is a weaker program, especially since Northwestern has accomplished far more in the last 20 years than Duke has in the last 50.

Besides that, the early ACC was weak. Duke owned the only BCS-level bowl victory, while Clemson, Maryland and UNC put up a fat goose egg. There's a reason that Florida State absolutely dominated once joining the league (70-2 record in first nine seasons of conference play).
 
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The recent posts show how overrated Jerry Kill is. He has taken over at an all-time football power (seven national titles) and has an 8-16 conference record.
 
Kain Colter admitted under oath when he testified to the NLRB that he would not been admitted to NW if he was a normal student. Fitz gets plenty of leeway on admissions.

And that makes for a better recruiting pitch for Fitz. Hey, kid, come to our ''elite '' academic school, get the 76k/yr diploma, which is a high value scholly, even with your average grades. This allows Fitz to compare the NW package very favorably to an Iowa, which is less than half the cost....for parents who understand that gap in scholly value , it makes NW attractive. Kain Colter interned at Goldman Sachs....Iowa cannot match that.
 
JHHawk said:
Kain Colter admitted under oath when he testified to the NLRB that he would not been admitted to NW if he was a normal student. Fitz gets plenty of leeway on admissions.

And that makes for a better recruiting pitch for Fitz. Hey, kid, come to our ''elite '' academic school, get the 76k/yr diploma, which is a high value scholly, even with your average grades. This allows Fitz to compare the NW package very favorably to an Iowa, which is less than half the cost....for parents who understand that gap in scholly value , it makes NW attractive. Kain Colter interned at Goldman Sachs....Iowa cannot match that.
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And how many of the elite recruits have parents who either don't understand that gap, do know and just don't care, or don't know and wouldn't care if they did? I'd bet it's a pretty high percentage.
 
Tons of football recruits come from suburban schools in this region. Places like Naperville, where the HS's can afford top facilities and coaching. Not so many from the Public League, where BB reigns. I think Big Ten football prospects are generally not inner city, where the parental value on quality of school might not be as strong.

If they are from deep south bad schools, I agree that those guys are not as good a target for NW or Iowa.
 
okeefe4prez said:
Again, Fitz walked into a complete tire fire because Walker died a few weeks before the season. Fitz was like 31 when he got the head job and despite that, he managed to put up the same 2-6 conference record that Ferentz put up that year. This year marks the 10th anniversary of Ferentz's last Big Ten title and 5th anniversary of that great 2009 season, so we haven't been given a lot to brag about from Kurt, either.

Anyway, yeah, Fitz's record stinks. Blah blah blah. Here's why I think Fitz is a damned good coach - his team has only been blown out twice in the past two years (Wisconsin and MSU last year and maybe PSU in 2012). He's had good teams the past two years, but when Colter got hurt last year, they just couldn't overcome the injury and they found a way to lose every close game just like we've seen from some Iowa teams in the past.
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Are you trying to make the argument that Fitz is a better coach than KF or are you saying he is KF2.0?
 
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