Ferentz vs Fry: Some Numbers

Blackhawk33

Blackhawk33

Well-Known Member
Hayden Fry's record at Iowa: 143-89-6 (62% win)
Kirk Ferentz's record at Iowa: 115-84 (58% win)
WINNER: FRY

Fry's Big Ten record: 96-61-5 (61% win)
Ferentz's Big Ten record: 68-60 (53% win)
WINNER: FRY

Fry's bowl appearances: 14/20 (70%)
Ferentz's bowl appearances: 12/16 (75%)
WINNER: FERENTZ

Fry's bowl record: 6-7-1 (46% win)
Ferentz's bowl record: 6-5 (55% win)
WINNER: FERENTZ
 
It's amazing, that even throughout Hayden's tenure, Iowa went to a bowl game every time we won 6 or more games.
This is when there were half the number of bowl games, that we have, today.

Fry looked at bowl games like a reward, and the focus was rarely there, except Freedom, 1995 Sun and 1996 Alamo.
 
Yeah, it is interesting that the only time Iowa didn't go to a bowl game with at least 6 wins, was under Ferentz in 2007, AFTER the big bowl boom.
 
Blackhawk33 said:
Hayden Fry's record at Iowa: 143-89-6 (62% win)
Kirk Ferentz's record at Iowa: 115-84 (58% win)
WINNER: FRY

Fry's Big Ten record: 96-61-5 (61% win)
Ferentz's Big Ten record: 68-60 (53% win)
WINNER: FRY

Fry's bowl appearances: 14/20 (70%)
Ferentz's bowl appearances: 12/16 (75%)
WINNER: FERENTZ

Fry's bowl record: 6-7-1 (46% win)
Ferentz's bowl record: 6-5 (55% win)
WINNER: FERENTZ
Click to expand...




It's really not fair to to compare bowl appearances and bowl wins for the two. During Hayden's tenure teams played 11 games in a season and typically had to have won 7 games minimum and in many cases 8 games to be selected for a bowl. There were a few years 6 wins would get you in buy that was not typical. In 14 bowl appearances under Fry, Iowa won 6 games in 2 of those. The rest were 7 wins or more.

Today, there are 38 bowl games for 76 teams. Teams play 12 games a year and only need 6 wins to qualify. In many cases under KF, Iowa plays 2 games per year that should be slam dunks. Under Fry they didn't play many FCS teams.

Apple and oranges.
 
If Fry were playing the type of schedules they play today, he probably would have went have went to more bowls

1979 5-6 (probably 7-5 today and mid-tier bowl)

1980 4-7 (probably 5-7 today and no bowl)

1989 5-6 (probably 6-6 today and detroit bowl)

1992 5-7 (probably 6-6 today)

1994 5-5-1 (probably 6-6 today)

1998 3-8 (probably 4-8 and no bowl)

So fry could have went to bowls 18/20 years by today's standards

Now to be fair, Ferentz could have went to a bowl in 2007, so ferentz could be 13/16 using the same measuring stick.
 
brhawks18 said:
It's really not fair to to compare bowl appearances and bowl wins for the two. During Hayden's tenure teams played 11 games in a season and typically had to have won 7 games minimum and in many cases 8 games to be selected for a bowl. There were a few years 6 wins would get you in buy that was not typical. In 14 bowl appearances under Fry, Iowa won 6 games in 2 of those. The rest were 7 wins or more.

Today, there are 38 bowl games for 76 teams. Teams play 12 games a year and only need 6 wins to qualify. In many cases under KF, Iowa plays 2 games per year that should be slam dunks. Under Fry they didn't play many FCS teams.

Apple and oranges.
Click to expand...

With most teams, you'd probably be right, apples to oranges. But Iowa is a bit of an anomaly when it comes to the modern bowl era. Fry had a six-win season twice in his Iowa career. Once in 1988, and once in 1993. Both times Iowa went to a bowl game. The Peach Bowl in '88 and the Alamo Bowl in '93. Ferentz also had two six-win seasons. One in 2006, also receiving an Alamo Bowl bid. And once in 2007, when they received no bowl bid.
 
I remember that 1992 schedule being brutal:
Out of conference:
Losses to NC State, which finished #15.
Loss to #1 Miami (Fla.)
Loss at #10 Colorado
Win against Iowa State

In conference:
Loss at #4 Michigan
Loss at Ohio State, which finished #18.

Kirk's out of conference is 3 tomato cans and Iowa State, virtually every year.
 
brhawks18 said:
It's really not fair to to compare bowl appearances and bowl wins for the two. During Hayden's tenure teams played 11 games in a season and typically had to have won 7 games minimum and in many cases 8 games to be selected for a bowl. There were a few years 6 wins would get you in buy that was not typical. In 14 bowl appearances under Fry, Iowa won 6 games in 2 of those. The rest were 7 wins or more.

Today, there are 38 bowl games for 76 teams. Teams play 12 games a year and only need 6 wins to qualify. In many cases under KF, Iowa plays 2 games per year that should be slam dunks. Under Fry they didn't play many FCS teams.

Apple and oranges.
Click to expand...

Could care less about the bowl game selection or record, today. It's nothing more than a participation ribbon for those with the $$ and / or can buy their way in with a traveling fan base, most notably, the B14. Proof - that there's even speculation that Ol'Miss, a legit top-15 team is being considered in a bowl match-up with an unranked, weak (impotent) Iowa. Same thing happened with the Outback, last year (tho it was a deserved New Year's Day bowl for a quality LSU team) and the Insight Bowl in 2011 (appropriate, lower tier bowl for Iowa; huge disrespect for a quality OK team).

The key is the current, 12-game schedule. Considering the Iowa's typical opponent for that extra non-con, Hayden would have at least 15 more wins. (I'd say 20 but he would have actually tried to add a WVU, OK, TX, Miami, ARk, GA - ya know, throw the fans a bone once in a while to keep them excited - and might have lost a couple of those.) Either way, the one and only measure that matters - W's - and Fry wins in a landslide.

I'll go 1 step further. Hayden and der KirkFer field this year's team against each other; Hayden wins 34 - 20, overcoming a half-time deficit of 17-14.

http://www.firekirk.com/
 
STILLBUSTER said:
I'll go 1 step further. Hayden and der KirkFer field this year's team against each other; Hayden wins 34 - 20, overcoming a half-time deficit of 17-14.
Click to expand...


Hayden would have won at least 9 games with this year's schedule and roster. As Jon pointed out, KF isn't the "developer" of talent that he thinks he is.

Hayden had a killer instinct against inferior opponents, and this year's schedule was full of inferior opponents.
 
As others have pointed out, bowl participation is a bit less of an accomplishment now...than 20-30 years ago.

Until Ferentz wins a NC, he will always be second to Fry for one simple reason. He loses far too often to inferior teams. Especially ISU.

That's sticking to hard numbers only. If we get into style points, the gap widens. Given equal talent on opposite sidelines....Fry would beat Ferentz 8 times out of 10.
 
Hayden will always be beloved.
Kirk looked like he was going to be an icon, circa 2004.
In the end, Hayden will be, both beloved and an icon, more than Kirk.
 
Blackhawk33 said:
With most teams, you'd probably be right, apples to oranges. But Iowa is a bit of an anomaly when it comes to the modern bowl era. Fry had a six-win season twice in his Iowa career. Once in 1988, and once in 1993. Both times Iowa went to a bowl game. The Peach Bowl in '88 and the Alamo Bowl in '93. Ferentz also had two six-win seasons. One in 2006, also receiving an Alamo Bowl bid. And once in 2007, when they received no bowl bid.
Click to expand...


The Fry years also had tougher schedules over an 11 game season. Fry with 12 games a year and the easier early season schedule the Hawks play each year would produce more wins. Can we prove this? No, but watching Hayden's teams versus KF's teams are like night and day.

He had better assistants and his style was fun to watch. Not to mention, there was far less parity in college football then there is today. The OSU's and Michigan's of the world had more scholarships to offer if I remember correctly.
 
Blackhawk33 said:
Hayden Fry's record at Iowa: 143-89-6 (62% win)
Kirk Ferentz's record at Iowa: 115-84 (58% win)
WINNER: FRY

Fry's Big Ten record: 96-61-5 (61% win)
Ferentz's Big Ten record: 68-60 (53% win)
WINNER: FRY

Fry's bowl appearances: 14/20 (70%)
Ferentz's bowl appearances: 12/16 (75%)
WINNER: FERENTZ

Fry's bowl record: 6-7-1 (46% win)
Ferentz's bowl record: 6-5 (55% win)
WINNER: FERENTZ
Click to expand...

The difference in the overall records is not statistically significant, for what it is worth.
 
chicagoherky said:
The difference in the overall records is not statistically significant, for what it is worth.
Click to expand...



While not significantly different what is different is the fact Fry's team played 1 less game per year and he rarely if ever played the powder puff football teams the Hawks play now. Don't just look at records. YOu have to break things down further.

As I've said before, I can't prove what I'm about to type, but if Fry had 12 regular season games and played a much easier schedule like KF does now, my strong belief is Fry's overall record at Iowa would be approximately 160-72 for a 69% win percent.

Likewise, if KF only coached 11 regular season games and played the tougher schedule Fry's teams usually played, based on my unscientific calculations, KF's overall record at Iowa would stand at about 100-99 or 50% win percentage. Just to make KF's overall record look better, I purposely kept a few more wins for him and a few less losses for him.

Playing an 11 game schedule, Fry won 8 games 11 out of 20 years.

Playing mostly a 12 game schedule, KF won 8 games 7 out of 16 times so far. KF will need to win 8 games per year the next four years to equal that and that's playing an extra cup cake game every year. This is not likely to happen at this point.

Heck, KF's teams don't play OSU, Michigan or Michigan State each year like Fry had to.

Bottom line, KF is not even a pimple on Fry's a$$ as far as coaching goes.
 
When Fry coached, Northwestern rarely won any games, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois and Minnesota were terrible too except for the occasional .500 year. Michigan State didn't get good until well into the 90's. The Big Ten was truly Michigan/Ohio State and that was it. Fry had to play a few tough Non-conference games just to gain respect because he played 6 coaster easy teams in conference nearly every year. Alot easier to keep the team healthy when you could focus on one or two big games a season. Kind of like the BYU/Boise State/Utah teams that coast to a big end of season game. But heh, it's your story....twist the facts to suit your needs.
 
When Hayden was coaching, I rarely heard this perception on how bad the Big Ten conference was.
I've been hearing it, often, the past few years.
 
BirdsOfPrey said:
When Fry coached, Northwestern rarely won any games, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois and Minnesota were terrible too except for the occasional .500 year. Michigan State didn't get good until well into the 90's. The Big Ten was truly Michigan/Ohio State and that was it. Fry had to play a few tough Non-conference games just to gain respect because he played 6 coaster easy teams in conference nearly every year. Alot easier to keep the team healthy when you could focus on one or two big games a season. Kind of like the BYU/Boise State/Utah teams that coast to a big end of season game. But heh, it's your story....twist the facts to suit your needs.
Click to expand...

Illinois and Michigan State were both pretty damn good teams in the 80's each playing in one Rose Bowl. Indiana was a pretty respectable club when Bill Mallory was there also. I'd put the Big Ten of the vs todays conference any day of week.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Share this page

Top