Families of Former Black Iowa Football Players Organizing for Answers

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DMLadyhawk said:
Someone, maybe Mr. Dirtwrap,asked what the officers should have done. I was a dispatcher for a very large police department in Iowa, First all all, this not a 911 call. It is a ridiculous use of police time in a large city like Atlanta. Second, if they thought he was impaired, they could have helped him call a ride and let that person pick him up. I have known plenty of officers who would have moved his car, and helped him place that call if for no other reason than to avoid the paperwork and hassle of hauling someone like that to jail. It keeps them away from being available for trips that truly need emergency response.
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What? Drunk driving kills more people than cops EVERY YEAR. I cannot get on board with “call him a cab”
He isn’t doing anything wrong? The whole situation is terrible and if he would’ve cuffed up and taken his arrest for drunk driving this whole terrible situation would’ve been avoided.

Never in my life would I think people would defend someone fighting two officers in uniform arresting someone breaking the law and that person stealing a police issued weapon and turning it on them.

The whole thing is terrible but it could’ve been avoided by: not drunk driving, not resisting arrest, not fighting 2 cops, not stealing a weapon from said police.

Im sorry someone died but he should not have done what he did either. Nothing is justified in this whole matter and it’s not 1 sided either way.
 
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pootspot said:
What? Drunk driving kills more people than cops EVERY YEAR. I cannot get on board with “call him a cab”
He isn’t doing anything wrong? The whole situation is terrible and if he would’ve cuffed up and taken his arrest for drunk driving this whole terrible situation would’ve been avoided.

Never in my life would I think people would defend someone fighting two officers in uniform arresting someone breaking the law and that person stealing a police issued weapon and turning it on them.

The whole thing is terrible but it could’ve been avoided by: not drunk driving, not resisting arrest, not fighting 2 cops, not stealing a weapon from said police.

Im sorry someone died but he should not have done what he did either. Nothing is justified in this whole matter and it’s not 1 sided either way.
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Everything you say is valid to a point except how the officers handled it after he was shot. The black supervisors comments on video are damning. Those things taint it. It throws the idea the tazer he had was no longer useful into doubt toward the officer.

These issues are very problematic and should be.
 
HawkGold said:
Everything you say is valid to a point except how the officers handled it after he was shot. The black supervisors comments on video are damning. Those things taint it. It throws the idea the tazer he had was no longer useful into doubt toward the officer.

These issues are very problematic and should be.
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In a matter of mins, in an intense scuffle how do we know he ever saw any attempt or knew the current status of taser. Easy to say in hindsight and video review after the fact. Not siding just putt self there and when it’s happening that quickly it is a lot to process.

What if Officer gets hit with taser and perp gets his gun? Victim had every opportunity to be cuffed and have his day in court. The whole scenario was created/escalated by the perp.

Can I look at video and say he shouldn’t of been shot, yes. Can I also look at video and see he turns with what looks like he’s trying to shoot a taser at cop right before shot, yes.

I know for a 100% fact he would be alive if he hadn’t resisted arrest and fought/stole police issued weapon from the cop. He had no reason to act calm that long and then fight/take weapon from cops.

Everyone says let him go, please explain how he was so calm for 20+ min and then he flipped a switch and became a different person. How are these actions forgiven? How do we know what his intent was in those moments of anger/violence?

Easy to cast stones but why do all that? There was no call for it.
 
pootspot said:
In a matter of mins, in an intense scuffle how do we know he ever saw any attempt or knew the current status of taser. Easy to say in hindsight and video review after the fact. Not siding just putt self there and when it’s happening that quickly it is a lot to process.

What if Officer gets hit with taser and perp gets his gun? Victim had every opportunity to be cuffed and have his day in court. The whole scenario was created/escalated by the perp.

Can I look at video and say he shouldn’t of been shot, yes. Can I also look at video and see he turns with what looks like he’s trying to shoot a taser at cop right before shot, yes.

I know for a 100% fact he would be alive if he hadn’t resisted arrest and fought/stole police issued weapon from the cop. He had no reason to act calm that long and then fight/take weapon from cops.

Everyone says let him go, please explain how he was so calm for 20+ min and then he flipped a switch and became a different person. How are these actions forgiven? How do we know what his intent was in those moments of anger/violence?

Easy to cast stones but why do all that? There was no call for it.
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You left out the main points. Nice.
 
Agree some police abuse power and no excuse for behavior after as a man was dead/dying. Should’ve been trying to keep alive/calling for ambulance no matter what for anyone. I’d never wish death on anyone.

I was stating how before/how it all
Happened I can see both sides of the argument and how anyone can lean so far one way or the other with all the context/variables involved.

The man shouldn’t of been killed, he also shouldn’t of fought police officers doing there job when he was clearly in violation of broken laws.

Why grab a police issued weapon and point with intent towards and Officer? This was very preventable. The perp has no idea what he was grabbing and he gets up and fired instantly at officers. As far as he knew that was his gun right? That’s scary for all involved as he reacted and fought out of no where/unexpected after 20+ of being cooperative.

I’m not sure how to fix this but giving people the leeway to fight/take weapons off of officers is a bad precedent as next time it could be his gun.
 
pootspot said:
Agree some police abuse power and no excuse for behavior after as a man was dead/dying. Should’ve been trying to keep alive/calling for ambulance no matter what for anyone. I’d never wish death on anyone.

I was stating how before/how it all
Happened I can see both sides of the argument and how anyone can lean so far one way or the other with all the context/variables involved.

The man shouldn’t of been killed, he also shouldn’t of fought police officers doing there job when he was clearly in violation of broken laws.

Why grab a police issued weapon and point with intent towards and Officer? This was very preventable. The perp has no idea what he was grabbing and he gets up and fired instantly at officers. As far as he knew that was his gun right? That’s scary for all involved as he reacted and fought out of no where/unexpected after 20+ of being cooperative.

I’m not sure how to fix this but giving people the leeway to fight/take weapons off of officers is a bad precedent as next time it could be his gun.
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You have to start with officers willing to save the life of a drunk man. That is where the police issue began and likely why he will likely get some prison time. What the dead man did to that point is not relevant to officer actions post shooting. What the supervisor said us problematic
 
pootspot said:
Agree some police abuse power and no excuse for behavior after as a man was dead/dying. Should’ve been trying to keep alive/calling for ambulance no matter what for anyone. I’d never wish death on anyone.

I was stating how before/how it all
Happened I can see both sides of the argument and how anyone can lean so far one way or the other with all the context/variables involved.

The man shouldn’t of been killed, he also shouldn’t of fought police officers doing there job when he was clearly in violation of broken laws.

Why grab a police issued weapon and point with intent towards and Officer? This was very preventable. The perp has no idea what he was grabbing and he gets up and fired instantly at officers. As far as he knew that was his gun right? That’s scary for all involved as he reacted and fought out of no where/unexpected after 20+ of being cooperative.

I’m not sure how to fix this but giving people the leeway to fight/take weapons off of officers is a bad precedent as next time it could be his gun.
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When the guy was down, protect and serve takes over. It didn't. It is not their job to serve sentence. The police then became criminals.
 
HawkGold said:
When the guy was down, protect and serve takes over. It didn't. It is not their job to serve sentence. The police then became criminals.
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And he will be tried for that and cannot speak on that. I can say the perp unfortunately put himself in a terrible place/choice and lost his life for a bad decision. Should he of lost life, no. Should he have done what he did that cause this situation, no.

I think we can agree all the way around it’s terrible.
 
The situation with Rayshard Brooks is a tough one, IMO. I think many posters are painting it as black and white, but there are many layers there.

My personal take regarding situations like that, is that the prudent thing is to simply keep running after him. Eventually, he's going to tire and collapse (it's highly doubtful he would have outrun the officers), and, at that point, taking him into custody more than likely would have been a formality. We'll never know, but I'd be willing to bet (hypothetically) that he would have ended up exhausted on the ground yelling "I give up." Yes, it could be argued that while running he potentially could have contributed to some other tragic event like taking a hostage, running into traffic, etc., but, frankly, the odds of those things happening simply don't justify shooting him as he ran.

But, in fairness to the officer, and police officers in general, we can't discount the emotionally charged nature of the event. It involved resisting arrest, assaulting an officer, taking a "weapon," and firing said weapon in a threatening manner, all in the span of a just a few chaotic seconds. It's easy for us in hindsight to look at something and criticize, but police - even the good ones - are human. We do have to hold them to a higher standard, but we also need to be careful to not set a bar that's unreachable.
 
Malachiman said:
Many believe KF should be allowed to remain but I'm not one of those. He is overall responsible for the culture of the program, past and present. I could care less if the entire staff was released.
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Barta, U of Iowa President, Governor, President of the United States, Jesus. Where would it end? Too easy. 70-something % of America would be jobless. Better answer is fix and change. Listen and act.
 
#1DieHardHawk said:
The situation with Rayshard Brooks is a tough one, IMO. I think many posters are painting it as black and white, but there are many layers there.

My personal take regarding situations like that, is that the prudent thing is to simply keep running after him. Eventually, he's going to tire and collapse (it's highly doubtful he would have outrun the officers), and, at that point, taking him into custody more than likely would have been a formality. We'll never know, but I'd be willing to bet (hypothetically) that he would have ended up exhausted on the ground yelling "I give up." Yes, it could be argued that while running he potentially could have contributed to some other tragic event like taking a hostage, running into traffic, etc., but, frankly, the odds of those things happening simply don't justify shooting him as he ran.

But, in fairness to the officer, and police officers in general, we can't discount the emotionally charged nature of the event. It involved resisting arrest, assaulting an officer, taking a "weapon," and firing said weapon in a threatening manner, all in the span of a just a few chaotic seconds. It's easy for us in hindsight to look at something and criticize, but police - even the good ones - are human. We do have to hold them to a higher standard, but we also need to be careful to not set a bar that's unreachable.
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I agree. Personally I don't see it a situation where there is a "perfect solution" or a perfect ending to the situation. With that said, I think its a matter where you let the criminal justice system run its course, by charging him with murder, and letting a jury weigh both sides of the argument. In my opinion that is the justice that needs to take place not in this situation, but in any officer related shooting. There will be times they are found guilty and there will be times when it is determined that they acted in self defense and it was justified.

The important thing is it that its the people who they protect and serve that make that determination based on the information provided. It cannot end up in a situation where the matter is handled internally and no arrest is ever made. I think that in these instances they shouldn't be able to hide behind their badge. I'm naive enough to think that in most cases if it goes to trial the jury will get it right if a crime is committed.
 
Green also posted an article with comments from Andre Harris on his FB. I don't know if Harris is part of this group.

LINK
 
Clearly, many African-American players felt very out of place in the program, particularly around the time that the Ruckers reference.

Initially, I was shocked, then outraged, and now I'm just sad. It shouldn't have happened. The left side of my brain wants to analyze this from a "perception versus reality" standpoint, but, at the end of the day, the reality is that there was a serious disconnect somewhere.

Nevertheless, I do have a sense of optimism with how the administration and staff are addressing it. Is it ideal? No, but we have to keep in mind that behind the scenes is a group of attorneys controlling every action and statement. Unfortunately, that's the world in which we live, but my gut says that Kirk's intentions are genuine.
 
#1DieHardHawk said:
Clearly, many African-American players felt very out of place in the program, particularly around the time that the Ruckers reference.

Initially, I was shocked, then outraged, and now I'm just sad. It shouldn't have happened. The left side of my brain wants to analyze this from a "perception versus reality" standpoint, but, at the end of the day, the reality is that there was a serious disconnect somewhere.

Nevertheless, I do have a sense of optimism with how the administration and staff are addressing it. Is it ideal? No, but we have to keep in mind that behind the scenes is a group of attorneys controlling every action and statement. Unfortunately, that's the world in which we live, but my gut says that Kirk's intentions are genuine.
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I am waffling back and forth on this. I am a KF fan, but I am struggling with if he should be allowed to fix this or not. I do not want his legacy to end this way; however, for the betterment of the program you name PP or KOK the interim coach and you move on after the 2020 season.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
You know what...I was drunk as hell one time in Iowa City...last day of finals my sophomore year. I got mistakenly caught up in a brawl that started outside the old Fieldhouse. I wasn't involved but just on the cusp of the melee. Next thing I know I'm plastered up against a window on a store front...I didn't know it was a cop that had me because he came from behind...and I threw an elbow and pushed back...should he have shot me?

Don't be a dip stick.
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Nope. You shouldn't be shot for that, but probably should have been handcuffed. If you would have resisted you should have been taken to the ground. If you continue to resist and wrestle with the officer, grab his weapon, run, and point the weapon at him while he's chasing you, you should possibly be shot. Or... you could have just not resisted in the first place and you wouldn't have been shot. Weird.
 
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